CRZ is stupid

[Johnkie]

Deal with it, or would you guys prefer u could buy a sorta like stop XP buff wich makes u ONLY see-able until u buy it off!... DAT WOULD BE KEWL.
If he corpse camps, get some friends to help, log out for 10-15 mins, ask someone on irl id to invite you to their server, log your main and kick his ass...
And yeah i can actually understand why that rogue is ganking low lvl's... Rogues iz weak atm so hes just entertaining himself the only way he can!

[Deleted]

The world should be filled. Just not with bands of 90s camping.

aaaaand BAM someone else hit the nail on the head. I love the whole cross realm thing I love world pvp, I don't even think low levels getting ganked a few times is a big issue, BUT and it's a big but there is massive difference between those things and a level 90 player(s) camping lower levels that give no honor and can't possibly get away or fight back. People that think camping a lower level for 2 hours or more is pvp are sadly mistaken.

We have a lot of players from ally side sylvanas camp low level areas. I can't speak for others but when it happens to one of our guildies someone goes along to help and usually gets whispered dogs abuse from the ganker or the ganker just leaves At the start of the CRZ patch we had 40 of them camping the dark portal spawn point killing level 58s and 60s "pro players" there. In the end though the horde got together 2 raid groups of level cap players and yea they got ownd hard.

Again the issue isn't CRZ or world pvp it's sick twisted morons that usually have absolutely no pvp skill camping low levels that can't fight back. Imo Blizzard should give you a shield preventing all damage and preventing you dealing any damage for about 30 seconds to 1 minute IF you've died in the same place 10 times by the same player(s) this would allow lowbies to HS. Then you can just quest else where until the morons move on.

[Deleted]

Not possible. If it's your first time choosing a server on wow, you have no idea how pvp actually works. If you were to ask someone who already prior to the week before mop went live they would tell you "maybe you'll get killed whilst levelling once or twice, there used to be some pockets of it in vanilla but world pvp is long dead."

Not only that but as I already said - there are no servers any more. Another question you might have asked is "how many people per server?" or "what's the faction balance like?" And those choices now mean nothing.

If it's your first time playing and you are that new, you likely haven't gotten that far in leveling and can easily just start leveling on a new server. Furthermore, you can read the differences between PvE and PvP servers when choosing them, it's their own fault for not reading up on it fully before making their decision.

Yes there are servers! CRZ only merges the same kind of servers, PvP with PvP, PvE with PvE, RP with RP, RP-PvP with RP-PvP. Sure you can invite someone over to your realm, but they still live up to the rules of that server, so even if you're on a PvE realm and invite over someone from a PvP realm he will still not be able to attack people on that realm.

So you agree people have every right to be annoyed? But you think that people should just pay up to get away?

Right and right, it's not like you can take away anyone's right to be annoyed, you can be annoyed by the way your neighbor is behaving but you can't necessarily do anything about it.

Sure there is - it says right there in the terms of service that blizzard can change anything they like. That's what you signed up to. So never ever complain about anything in wow again. According to your already stated logic, if you don't like it, leave. You have no right to complain yourself if you want to withdraw that right from others.

Yes Blizzard can change anything they like, but as I said there are no dungeon/raid differences between PvE and PvP realms. The differences between the actual realm types is weather or not you can attack someone in the world or not, and always has been. Blizzard did not change this, they only increased the likelihood for you to encounter someone. And whilst sure Blizzard can make any change they want, they even have the full right to ban your account for no reason at all, no really they do.

No, pve servers are for those people who want to turn world pvp on or off when it suits them.

Actually it isn't, it's for those who wish to be able to level without interference from other players, always has been. Sure, you can write /pvp, but that won't make you able to attack others unless they do so as well.

Potentially has turned into definitely.

It really hasn't though. If it was definitely, you would be guaranteed to be ganked on a PvP server (and really, if you chose a PvP server and you all of a sudden find yourself in a moment of PvP, why the hell are you complaining?), but since I was able to level over 50 levels on my rogue without encountering a single high level at all it is definitely not guaranteed, only a lot more likely.

[Deleted]

If it's your first time playing and you are that new, you likely haven't gotten that far in leveling and can easily just start leveling on a new server. Furthermore, you can read the differences between PvE and PvP servers when choosing them, it's their own fault for not reading up on it fully before making their decision.

But you just said that people know what they signed up to when they made their characters - even if it was pre mop.

Can you pick one and stick to it? You can't have both.

Yes there are servers! CRZ only merges the same kind of servers, PvP with PvP, PvE with PvE, RP with RP, RP-PvP with RP-PvP. Sure you can invite someone over to your realm, but they still live up to the rules of that server, so even if you're on a PvE realm and invite over someone from a PvP realm he will still not be able to attack people on that realm.

So the servers are merged but there are still servers? Wtf is this? Again, pick one.

Right and right, it's not like you can take away anyone's right to be annoyed, you can be annoyed by the way your neighbor is behaving but you can't necessarily do anything about it.

That's not true - almost everywhere there are limits on noise levels, smells, behaviour etc etc that are backed up by local or national laws.

Yes Blizzard can change anything they like, but as I said there are no dungeon/raid differences between PvE and PvP realms. The differences between the actual realm types is weather or not you can attack someone in the world or not, and always has been. Blizzard did not change this, they only increased the likelihood for you to encounter someone. And whilst sure Blizzard can make any change they want, they even have the full right to ban your account for no reason at all, no really they do.

Yes, so you'll never complain about anything in pve ever again, will you?

Actually it isn't, it's for those who wish to be able to level without interference from other players, always has been. Sure, you can write /pvp, but that won't make you able to attack others unless they do so as well.

So a pve realm isn't for optional pvp, it's for optional pvp? Hows about just conceding a point when you have lost, rather than restating my correct position as though it was your own?

It really hasn't though. If it was definitely, you would be guaranteed to be ganked on a PvP server (and really, if you chose a PvP server and you all of a sudden find yourself in a moment of PvP, why the hell are you complaining?), but since I was able to level over 50 levels on my rogue without encountering a single high level at all it is definitely not guaranteed, only a lot more likely.

I have no idea how you managed to level a stealth class without getting attacked. No, really.

[rogueMatthias]

CRZ isnt the problem.

The problem is all the AssHats that think corpse camping people 10-20 levels lower for hours on end is actually fun, even though they achieve NOTHING from it apart from upsetting people. I know there's a large amount of rp in fighting for your own faction, but stopping some lowbie questing for an hour is just being a dick, wether they're the opposing faction or not.

+For the 10 people or so on the roofs permanantly in Area52, attacking people on the ground so they can't fly up to fight back, the fact that this is a more efficient way for them to farm honor than actually going to battlegrounds (there can't be THAT many 90s in Area 52 surely?) says a lot about their PVP "Skills".

Blizzard SHOULD do something about it. If eventually they can scale level as well as gear, if you gank someone you should get a buff like
"Curse of the Weak : Your level and Gear lvl are reduced to the level of the person you've just killed. You are unable to use a flying mount for 5 minutes until the buff wears off"
and then see how many people enjoy "world PVP".

[theWocky]

A priest / warrior combo killed me twice when I was leveling my druid in tanaris back in TBC - back then, it was a hell of graveyard run. I brought my lvl 60 rogue and I went into stealth and I found them questing in tanaris - pulling mobs, aoe'ing them down with the priest healing. I stalked them for twelve hours straight in stealth, killing the healer as the tank had multiple mobs on him. I lost track of how many times I killed them like this. Whenever they logged off, I left my other wow account active on another computer to track when and where they came on-line again. A bit OCD on vengeance, yes I know.

I always made sure that they tagged at least one mob so that they had to pay repair bills.

Nothing happened - this was not considered "griefing"

[Deleted]

Bloody wanker you are.

Infracted - ML

[Deleted]

But you just said that people know what they signed up to when they made their characters - even if it was pre mop.

Can you pick one and stick to it? You can't have both.

Of course you can pick one and stick to it, I really don't understand what you are even trying to get at. Either you want the risk of being ganked and choose a PvP server, or you don't and then choose a PvE server. What's so hard about that?

So the servers are merged but there are still servers? Wtf is this? Again, pick one.

Server types aren't merged! Which is entirely the point! The fact that servers merge in general is no issue at all, the question at hand is if you picked a PvP server or not, not which server you chose.

That's not true - almost everywhere there are limits on noise levels, smells, behaviour etc etc that are backed up by local or national laws.

Yes there are limits to how far they can go but they can still annoy you even without breaking those rules/laws, thus annoying you without you able to do anything about it.

Yes, so you'll never complain about anything in pve ever again, will you?

This doesn't make any sense at all and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. CRZ is a change made that only increased the risk of you being ganked, and you can only be ganked on a PvP server. If Blizzard makes a change that only affects one server and I can avoid it by going to the other one then yes I promise I won't complain about it.

So a pve realm isn't for optional pvp, it's for optional pvp? Hows about just conceding a point when you have lost, rather than restating my correct position as though it was your own?

You claim that PvE servers are for those who on occasion wants to PvP in the world, the problem here is that even if they want to they can't force their opponent into it, thus whilst it's an option in a sense, it takes both parties to want to do it. Your claim was also that PvE servers were intended for those, I claimed otherwise that it's for those who wish to be able to level in peace and quiet, which you can't even counterclaim. So I'm not conceding anything, if anything it's you who should concede "that point".

I have no idea how you managed to level a stealth class without getting attacked. No, really.

Yes because stealth on a low level works so well against a lvl 90, it's not like they could see me 100 meters away. Also as I said, I didn't even see any lvl 90 on my way to 60. I encountered other same level players which I killed, but no high leveled.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Why are all these people saying "you picked a pvp server!" as a defence of CRZ?

Because they want to defend community killing behavior (what's left of it in CRZ), and defend a playstyle that they prefer at the expense of others.

Antisocial to the core.

[Deleted]

Because they want to defend community killing behavior (what's left of it in CRZ), and defend a playstyle that they prefer at the expense of others.

Antisocial to the core.

Yeah "community killing behavior"... Because the Alliance and the Horde are part of the same community, and there was so much of the community left when dungeon finder was introduced and you stopped playing with other people from the same server unless you joined as a guild. (For the record I'm not bashing LFD nor starting any argument about weather or not it was a good implementation, just using it as a point of furthering decreasing the sense of a community within the server.)

Fighting against other people out in the world is the core difference between a PvP and a PvE server, people using their high levels to kill low levels is hardly something new.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Fighting against other people out in the world is the core difference between a PvP and a PvE server, people using their high levels to kill low levels is hardly something new.

Making excuses for consequence free PvP is not some difference, unless you're willing to admit it's a bunch of babies who can't really do PvP and that is all they can do without being carried ot into win trading.

[Nev12]

Why anyone would complain about consequence free PvP is beyond me.
People seem to roll on PvP servers just to be able to complain about PvP.

[Hyve]

Making excuses for consequence free PvP is not some difference, unless you're willing to admit it's a bunch of babies who can't really do PvP and that is all they can do without being carried ot into win trading.

Another major generalisation by Kevyne-Shandris.

On-Topic: World PvP has always been available on PvP Realms. Nothing has changed in terms of PvP rules or capabilities on PvP servers with the introduction of Cross-Realm Zones. What it has done is make the server more populated with the type of people that should be on there. Ganking does happen, and nothing is wrong with it.

Someone camping your body to the point of getting angry is annoying, but just log off and do something else. If you're on a PvP server, just move. I can't see the logic behind you complaining, when you signed up for World PvP by joining the server.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Someone camping your body to the point of getting angry is annoying, but just log off and do something else. If you're on a PvP server, just move. I can't see the logic behind you complaining, when you signed up for World PvP by joining the server.

That's like saying on a playground with bullies there's no reason for others to be on the playground because bullies exist.

Illogical thinking.

[Deleted]

Making excuses for consequence free PvP is not some difference, unless you're willing to admit it's a bunch of babies who can't really do PvP and that is all they can do without being carried ot into win trading.

I definitely do not agree with people who actively seek out low levels to gank for hours on end for no apparent reason, to then flee if they get support, but at the same time I don't think it should be against the rules to do so either.

Ganking someone in revenge for them killing your alt/main with your main/friends is definitely ok. As is killing someone a couple of times in hopes for them to get their main/friends to attack you back.

You have to understand though that there are those who think world PvP is loads more fun than regular battlegrounds, or even arena. Me and a friend has gone to Stormwind several times this week, our server as a whole is rather dead on both Horde and Alliance side so there isn't much resistance, however the thrill of attacking their capitol city with loads of guards on us, several level 90's and other low levels trying to kill us, whilst we still prevail and successfully kill them all, no arena or even rated battleground beats that kind of PvP, at least not to me. (Stormwind is also Alliance territory so even on a PvP realm we can only attack those who have recently been in a battleground or are stupid enough to attack us.)

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 02:40 PM ----------

That's like saying on a playground with bullies there's no reason for others to be on the playground because bullies exist.

Illogical thinking.

It's not though. A more fitting example would be if there were two kinds of playgrounds, one with a no-bully tolerance and one without it. If you go to the other then you have to face the fact that a "bully" might be there.

[Tekkommo]

Though should introduce a de-level in zones with crz, that would make the lame 90s think twice.

Getting ganked continuously by max level chars is not pvp.

[Deleted]

Though should introduce a de-level in zones with crz, that would make the lame 90s think twice.

Getting ganked continuously by max level chars is not pvp.

Trying to define PvP outside of Player vs Player is impossible since everyone will have their own idea of what they think PvP actually is...

Higher levels ganking low levels has as I previously said, always existed, and will pretty much always exist. It's a risk you take when picking a PvP server. There has also already been loads of solutions suggested you can take to avoid being ganked further.

[Nev12]

It's not though. A more fitting example would be if there were two kinds of playgrounds, one with a no-bully tolerance and one without it. If you go to the other then you have to face the fact that a "bully" might be there.

I'd say a more fitting example would be if you're going to a restaurant where only chicken is served in hopes to get some beef, be fully aware of the fact that only chicken is available and that there's a restaurant with beef down the street, and then proceed to complain about how you're forced to eat chicken.

[Xucuroz]

That's like saying on a playground with bullies there's no reason for others to be on the playground because bullies exist.

Illogical thinking.

Don't think that's the best metaphor. Most kids can't change schools. You can however change zones, do dungeons, pvp, alts or log out.

Ideal solution? Not really. I personally find it ridiculous people are up in arms over CRZ when the simple fact is a lvl 90 shouldn't be able to kill a player 30+ levels lower than them. As many people have already pointed out, this has always been possible on PvP servers. CRZ just introduces that bigger population.

[Tekkommo]

Trying to define PvP outside of Player vs Player is impossible since everyone will have their own idea of what they think PvP actually is...

Higher levels ganking low levels has as I previously said, always existed, and will pretty much always exist. It's a risk you take when picking a PvP server. There has also already been loads of solutions suggested you can take to avoid being ganked further.

While I'm not complaining about CRZ, I actually like them. I just think it's bad game design letting all these max level chars in packed low level zones. It's the perfect hunting ground for shit players who can't handle the game at their own level.

But tbh, there is plenty of other ways to level, if you have one bad player who is most likely a fat virgin who keyboard turns, ganking you at every opportunity, level in bg's or 5 mans, they are very quick.

Still bad game design.