1. #11181
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Maybe there was more developed plots for S vs. O, how you quantify these will vary from person to person. But let's say for the sake of discussion that I agree with you, read this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...drew-karpyshyn
    And what exactly are you trying to say? That at one point they considered Dark Energy for a ending? Yes we know that. They also had Cerberus as just a throw away group but they evolved into something more because the Ascension book and took on a role critical to the plots of the games. The thing being discussed in regard to the Dark Energy theory isn't if it was every intended to be or thought up as a possible ending but if the theory would fit as the ending for mass effect given how the lore and stories of Mass Effect 1 and 2 evolved.

    https://twitter.com/DrewKarpyshyn/st...82584155590656 "From what I hear, the basic concept of the original ending is there, though some details may have been tweaked"

    https://twitter.com/DrewKarpyshyn/st...82864288960512 "Dark Energy was on the table at one point, but the original idea for the ending was all about Reapers and Mass Relays"
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #11182
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    And what exactly are you trying to say? That at one point they considered Dark Energy for a ending? Yes we know that. They also had Cerberus as just a throw away group but they evolved into something more because the Ascension book and took on a role critical to the plots of the games. The thing being discussed in regard to the Dark Energy theory isn't if it was every intended to be or thought up as a possible ending but if the theory would fit as the ending for mass effect given how the lore and stories of Mass Effect 1 and 2 evolved.

    https://twitter.com/DrewKarpyshyn/st...82584155590656 "From what I hear, the basic concept of the original ending is there, though some details may have been tweaked"

    https://twitter.com/DrewKarpyshyn/st...82864288960512 "Dark Energy was on the table at one point, but the original idea for the ending was all about Reapers and Mass Relays"
    That the Dark Energy plot could just as well fit into the ending, because it was hinted at (as confirmed by Drew himself).
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  3. #11183
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    DS9
    Posts
    20,295
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Right, but you are making a claim for it supporting Dark Energy. Rather then just being a trait of Humanity that sets them apart from everyone else. Why would Genetic Diversity be better to solve the problem of the universe being destroyed from Dark Energy?
    My claim was in the context of how they choose species to build a reaper from - it supports Dark Energy only because for Dark Energy you have to choose the best suitable. Considering that reapers are built from DNA - Genetic Diversity would be a huge plus for a resulting Reaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It has to be the universe because the Reapers are capable of inter galactic travel. Why would they care if the Milky Way gets destroyed when they could just move somewhere else?
    How naive. What will happen to the "new" galaxy? Same thing. So they move on to the next one? GOOD PLAN.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why is it okay for Bioware to say "Oh because the reapers know better no other explanation" and not "Oh an energy wave does it and no other explanation". You are willing to accept one "Just because" but not another. I'm not asking for you to write the story that Bioware would have but in order for you to explain and show how the leaked ending is far superior then the actual ME3 ending you have to be able to answer these things other then "Just because I said so".
    I said I have no problem with "energy wave".
    Also I didn't say "far superior" I said more plausible.
    Please stop trolling.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Peaceful like telling the galaxy what the problem is and if they have any off the wall ideas on how to fix the problem. You know actually seeing if they can help before erasing them from existence and then finding out if they can help.
    They couldn't solve the problem by conventional means. Get it? They couldn't solve problem in reaper form. Get it?
    They couldn't just go and tell rookies - "here's the problem now solve it". It would achieve nothing. Half the rookies would just say "gtfo".
    There's an advantage in encountering the problem first hand and trying to solve it. It may lead to interesting results. New ideas, etc.
    If reapers would just tell about it - they would have to give their research data - and that would lead to fail - because that research has already failed. it would be a dead end. They needed a fresh view on the problem and devised the only way to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    And Haestrom was noticed at least 300 years prior to the end of the Cycle. The Quarians had a scientific outpost there to study the unstable sun but were forced out by the Geth Rebellion. Hmm a synthetic vs Organic conflict causing troulbe perhaps the current ME3 ending is on to something... http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Haestrom and http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dholen
    Do not mix two scenarios. In Dark Energy scenario Geth or Synthetics - do not matter. They are part of the cycle. And their actions led to a failure.
    In Starchild scenario Dark Energy doesn't matter - synthetics were a menace to life, not galaxy.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You should just stop. Because use of Eezo creates Dark Energy. Use of FTL, Biotics, Mass Relays all create Dark Energy.
    Maybe I should. Because you do not know lore of ME that well. Hence all the wiki links... you miss a lot of crucial details. The one in particular here is that: all that you mentioned was derived from Relays. The whole Mass Effect technology that causes the problem. Comes from Relays. The reaper technology placed there to be found... I explained that before already, numerous times.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Then we have the Reapers themselves using a Relay that requires a super large amount of Dark Energy in order for them to use it. Why would the Reapers populate the galaxy and have every cycle use technology that would cause a problem.
    To solve it, DOH! Do notice that the use of Mass Effect technology is PRETTY SHORT and signifies the coming of the Harvest.
    And reapers sleep in dark space using as little of Dark Energy and as far away from galaxies as possible. Explain this in "Synthetics are evil" scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    This also raises the question on how the Reapers counter act the effect of each cycles usage. Each cycle would be generating and adding to the problem of Dark Energy. Why would the reapers add to the problem in order to stop the problem? Eventually the Reapers own actions with the cycles would cause the galaxy to be destroyed by Dark Energy. Which means that Dark Energy can't be a problem because if it was then it would have destroyed the galaxy long before Shepards cycle.
    No. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, it's not like you turn the Core on and galaxy goes boom. No. The problem is there but it is far from being an immediate danger. The limited controlled use of Dark energy Technology is possible for the purposes of solving the problem.
    Reapers made a gamble. Limit the use of technology in cycles and use cycles to solve the problem. Each cycle have a potential to solve the problem or provides a new reaper. the more reapers there are the faster they will find the solution. The more cycles there are the higher the chance of finding the solution thru cycles.
    It can lead to two ends:
    1. Solution found.
    2. Time's up.

    They placed all their bets on finding the solution before the time runs out.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    " When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields, effectively raising or lowering the relative mass of all objects within the field. With the eezo nodules and natural electrical impulses in their nervous systems, biotics can generate and wield dark energy biologically, but the effort is physically demanding. "
    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_energy

    And that is lore that exists prior to Mass Effect 3. The Dark Energy Theory is flawed from the very start of the leak. It was possible for Bioware to create new lore in Mass Effect 3 to attempt to explain it. But perhaps they changed directions because of the very flaws I'm pointing out. Or perhaps they are still going to go with Dark Energy as a larger issue but the Reapers weren't created to solve it but created to keep Organics and Synthetics from destroying each other. Which would leave time for Leviathan and the rest of their race to solve the problem. Dark Energy can fit but it doesn't really work for why the Reapers are doing what they do.
    WHAT FLAW?
    And how can you see any sense in Organic vs Synthetics? It's stupid. You do not need no cycles nor harvesting to achieve that. You can even go all the peaceful way you so enjoy... Please stop this bullshit. There will be no Dark Energy problem in ME unless they retcon ME3 entirely. Including DLCs. Like Leviathan.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Then why do you think the Dark Energy ending would have been any different? From the writer of the Dark Energy ending http://www.oxm.co.uk/39736/revealed-...efore-release/

    ""The original final choice was going to be 'Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left' or 'Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means.'"
    I'm not talking about ENDINGS.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    There was still going to be the same ultimate choice that has nothing to do with your past choices and alliances. It all came down to finding another way to stop the spread or sacrificing Humanity to become a reaper. The premise of Dark Energy was still Forget everything else and here is what it is all about. The Theory of Dark Energy would never have been explained prior to Mass Effect 3. Just as the Theory of the Catalyst, Crucible and an Energy being able to do something unknown (since no one ever used the Crucible and only the Protheans successfully built it prior)
    The premise was MAKING SENSE. It wasn't "forget everything" - it was "remember all that? now you know what it meant"

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Explained in Mass Effect 1 by Vigil. The Protheans modified the Keepers and stopped the Alarm Clock from going off. This is why Sovereign assaulted the Citadel because he had to manually activate the signal. That Signal that had to be activate could have been the Catalyst. Or it could be what activate the Catalyst. Yes there are questions but it doesn't invalidate what happened just because something isn't known.
    Fuuuuuck... The question was: why the fuck do they need the keepers/sovereign/whatever. Who builds an enormous Alarm Clock and then places it so far away - so you need help hearing it? Couldn't they just come over every 50000 years to check things out? This is not just some question. It's plain stupidity in Synthetics vs Organics scenario. Why Reapers even retreat to dark space in the first place? Why? I do not get it. Arrival DLC was just plain stupid. No wonder, it was made in light of ME3. Somehow reapers came. So what's the point of Sovereign? Harbinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The reason why they need them is regardless of what ever the Catalyst or Dark Energy. Because the Keepers are the care takers of the Citadel. The catalyst is shown to still be restricted by certain programing which is why the ending options only became available after the Crucible. Besides an AI can't do everything to accommodate life on the Citadel. The Keepers ran the place, repaired it, and kept the inhabitants from finding the central control room where the Catalyst was or the "Reapers were here" info is.
    Why they need them to make a call? Of course keepers have many other uses. That's irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because the Reapers don't just kill people off when they meet a certain criteria. It is established they they do whatever cleansing needs to be done in cycles. And Sovereign took control of the Geth because it wanted to replace the Keepers with the Geth. And the Geth allowed it to remain hidden while still attempting to follow its goal. And it worked as the events of Mass Effect 2 show. Everyone but a select few thought it was all the Geth and not Reapers.
    Yeah. it fits nicely into Dark Energy scenario. But not into the Synthetics vs Organics. the sole goal of Reapers - not allowing Synthetics. Sovereign was obligated to destroy Geth - he didn't. Keepers could be replaced by any other race - Asari would do nicely. Not to mention the fact that they do not need keepers. You're grasping for straws.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because as Leviathan explains some being some where in the Galaxy always broke the rules and it kept leading to Chaos. That is why the Reapers were created to ensure the existence of Organic life (in Reaper Form) so they wouldn't cause Chaos. The ironic thing was that the AI created to solve the problem was originally a symptom of the problem.
    It just makes no sense. Reapers could patrol the galaxy and peacefully remind everyone to not build no AI. Punish the rule breakers. Keep the ORDER. Something we see in blue ending. Funny heh?
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A peaceful solution was only possible through Synthesis with the Crucible. Otherwise it was stuff the Reapers have seen cycles ago. Just because the Quarians and the Geth can coexist peacefully doesn't mean all AI's start out that way. Which leads to a new conflict with a new AI and Organics. Remember that the Geth and EDI were really only able to become "evolved" through Reaper tech. Though the Legion didn't originally have reaper upgrades he was sort of a fluke amongst Geth (it was never really explained why Legion become Legion in the first place).
    A peaceful solution is to outlaw AI and enforce it - reapers can enforce it. There would've been no humans though as there would've been no cycles. But it would've worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Maybe they require each cycle to create enough Dark Energy for them to power themselves? The Reapers don't need to limit the usage of their Dark Energy tech. They would only need to do that if the Dark Energy theory was true. The Reapers just being Reapers create Dark Energy through the use of Eezo which is what their cores use (or at least the in game lore "speculates" since it is never really stated out right).
    They do not need cycles if it's not Dark Energy scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They go into hibernation or Dark Space because what else will they do while they let the next cycle grow? They only cull sentient life at certain stages. Remember they left Asari, Hanar, and others alone when the culled the Protheans. They aren't just interested in all life, or all sentient life. But they are interested in specific kinds which requires them to wait. They also need to hide somewhere so they aren't discovered ruing the cycles maturation and possibly allowing that cycle to defeat them (as is shown possible by Liara and her drones doing if the current cycle fails).
    They could oversee. Prevent AI from being built. They do not need to hide. No reason for that what-so-ever. If they were peaceful police units - there would be no war with the reapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Flash forward a few months ago and your reasoning can be applied word for word for the Indoctrination Theory. Just change "Dark Energy" with "Indoctrination". We are discussing it because that is what the forums are for. And you are making a claim.
    No IT fits perfectly fine into DE scenario.

  4. #11184
    Scarab Lord Puck's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    ????
    Posts
    4,636
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Apart from the link I provided here's a few hints that I remember:

    * Mordin pointing out the genetic diversity in humans in Mass Effect 2
    * Haestrom in Mass Effect 2
    * The Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2
    The organic VS Synthetic plot had more relevance to the game than just a few missions. I feel as thought the Dark energy plot would have been even more unexpected and convoluted.
    Last edited by Puck; 2012-11-18 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #11185
    Quote Originally Posted by The EagleOwl Mage View Post
    The organic VS Synthetic plot had more relevance to the game than just a few missions. I feel as thought the Dark energy plot would have been even more unexpected and convoluted.
    To me, the O vs. S plot felt very simple and generic. But I'm not here to discuss my opinion (I've already gone through this months ago ), just pointing out a few things.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  6. #11186
    Deleted
    AAYFSDAY AFK PEOPLE!!!

    Just lost out on playing with this guy ;__;

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:09 AM ----------

    Well, first platinum done

    Fuck waves 5&8

  7. #11187
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobo15 View Post
    AAYFSDAY AFK PEOPLE!!!

    Just lost out on playing with this guy ;__;

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:09 AM ----------

    Well, first platinum done

    Fuck waves 5&8
    Nice one! I thought that sort of thing was nigh on impossible in a group of randoms.

  8. #11188
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmwing View Post
    Nice one! I thought that sort of thing was nigh on impossible in a group of randoms.

    It is, but Yakobo got boosted.
    Last edited by mmoce8c391acaa; 2012-11-19 at 10:54 AM.

  9. #11189
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Rhorle, chill mate. Not only I just ignored whatever you wrote, but the ending also still sucks =(

    Did I mentioned already how silly it is that magical space wave that turns tree's into cyborgs?!?! ah ah ah ~ robot tree's ~
    How can you guys still discuss the endings after so many months? Had to laugh at how rhorle tried to argue desperately on that topic

    BTW: Looking forward to Omega ... finally something to get me back to ME3 for a few days.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzual View Post
    Starchild and the nightmare scenes you have to do are the only things I sincerely dislike about ME3. I know Shepard is human, but it bothers me that the "super badass renegade" you spend two games building who "takes no sh*t" is plagued by the memory of ONE dead child. It's not even like it was gruesome, he didn't see the child's corpse. It's a shame and I don't like it. (The scenes themselves are an absolute bore to go through)
    This and the stupid body scanner on the Normandy are the things I hated the most in my countless playthroughs. One silly child is able to cause sleepless nights and nightmares on my xenophobic and ruthless renegade shepard. This does not fit ...

    Those nightmare scenes aren't even skippable and Shepard is running in slow motion ... Would have been amazing if those scenes were skippable instead of having to do them 1000 times.

  10. #11190
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    DS9
    Posts
    20,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    This and the stupid body scanner on the Normandy are the things I hated the most in my countless playthroughs. One silly child is able to cause sleepless nights and nightmares on my xenophobic and ruthless renegade shepard. This does not fit ...

    Those nightmare scenes aren't even skippable and Shepard is running in slow motion ... Would have been amazing if those scenes were skippable instead of having to do them 1000 times.
    Add the "civilian" running animation of female Shep....

  11. #11191
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    mething else is.

    Leviathan was always planned and of course you won't here about a surprise secret character until their role is revealed. Every one thought the Wizard in Wizard of OZ was a floating head until it is revealed that it really is just a man behind a curtain. The Catalyst has never been seen before by anyone in any of the cycles since the first. Why would you expect there to be something about it?
    No Leviathan was not planned.

    http://social.bioware.com/msg.forum/...dex/14844500/1

    "“It's different for every DLC,” Condominas explains. “Some of them were never thought of before ME3 was done, like Leviathan. But with Omega it's a bit different. It's a huge DLC exploring an iconic place and characters we knew before ME3 was released."

    So no Leviathan was retconned in to try to make some sense of their endings, i'll get to the rest when i have minute.

  12. #11192
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    It is, but Yakobo got boosted.
    Heh, give him his moment of glory. ^^

  13. #11193
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    Had to laugh at how rhorle tried to argue desperately on that topic
    Its almost adorable how much effort hes putting in.
    Is he trying to fool us, or himself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmwing View Post
    Heh, give him his moment of glory. ^^
    I cant after seeing a guy solo platinum.

  14. #11194

  15. #11195
    Dark energy is hinted somewhere in parts throughout the game
    O vs S is a major plot theme through all 3 parts of the game.

    Clearly one is more established than the other.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The EagleOwl Mage View Post
    The organic VS Synthetic plot had more relevance to the game than just a few missions. I feel as thought the Dark energy plot would have been even more unexpected and convoluted.
    Dark Energy would have been just as bad as space magic. It would be "hanging a lantern on it". A massive contrivance that came out of nowhere. O vs S has been a running theme of mass effect since the very beginning.

  16. #11196
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Dark energy is hinted somewhere in parts throughout the game
    O vs S is a major plot theme through all 3 parts of the game.

    Clearly one is more established than the other.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:22 PM ----------



    Dark Energy would have been just as bad as space magic. It would be "hanging a lantern on it". A massive contrivance that came out of nowhere. O vs S has been a running theme of mass effect since the very beginning.
    The Dark Energy plot involves synthetics vs. organics as well, it's just not the main theme of it.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  17. #11197
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    It is, but Yakobo got boosted.

    He got more points because all except him died on wave 5 and he got to concussive shot spam down phantoms D:
    And I was face tanking stuff alot with the stim packs so they could get off fire
    The solo platinum Volus is da best.

  18. #11198
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Did I mentioned already how silly it is that magical space wave that turns tree's into cyborgs?!?! ah ah ah ~ robot tree's ~
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...NCxoO9s#t=185s though I'm sure you will just ignore it again even though it points out the validity of the synthesis. There are also a few other potential explanations that could be used but none that are talked about by people in the game. The Citadel has a matter transport and could have transported Nanites with the galactic wave. It could have been a specific form of energy manipulation that gave off a certain radiation to mutate DNA.

    If you accept all the other silly stuff in Mass Effect there is no reason to draw the line here except just to be irrational.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #11199
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobo15 View Post

    He got more points because all except him died on wave 5 and he got to concussive shot spam down phantoms D:
    And I was face tanking stuff alot with the stim packs so they could get off fire
    The solo platinum Volus is da best.
    Why werent you that good when i played with you? ;<


    And slightly less ontopic:
    How does a Quadriplegic person masturbate?

    And Rhorle, a robot philosophing is hardly equal to lets say, anything.
    No idea how you can put that forth.
    Oh wait, you are rhorle.
    Last edited by mmoce8c391acaa; 2012-11-19 at 06:27 PM.

  20. #11200
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,487
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    My claim was in the context of how they choose species to build a reaper from - it supports Dark Energy only because for Dark Energy you have to choose the best suitable. Considering that reapers are built from DNA - Genetic Diversity would be a huge plus for a resulting Reaper.
    And why do they have to choose only one? If you are trying to solve a problem that no one has been able to solve after millions of years why would you pick one? Why not pick everyone to get everyone's input? Genetic Diversity matters little for a reaper because it is organic minds preserved in a machine body. Reapers do not become more powerful off of genetics.
    They couldn't solve the problem by conventional means. Get it? They couldn't solve problem in reaper form. Get it?
    They couldn't just go and tell rookies - "here's the problem now solve it". It would achieve nothing. Half the rookies would just say "gtfo".
    There's an advantage in encountering the problem first hand and trying to solve it. It may lead to interesting results. New ideas, etc.
    If reapers would just tell about it - they would have to give their research data - and that would lead to fail - because that research has already failed. it would be a dead end. They needed a fresh view on the problem and devised the only way to get it.
    If the problem can't be solved in reaper form then what does making people into reapers accomplish? How would creating a Human reaper solve the problem if using Reaper research and Reaper form wouldn't solve the problem. If the Reapers really cared about having the problem solved they would have left Research to build upon. Just like the Crucible was created from cycles worth of people building it. It was a plan that didn't just get created by one cycle but created by all of them.

    You are dismissing the power of already having established data to build from. Even failed research is valuable research. You can still get a fresh view while showing people things that didn't work. So 50,000 years isn't wasted on the same stuff.

    Do not mix two scenarios. In Dark Energy scenario Geth or Synthetics - do not matter. They are part of the cycle. And their actions led to a failure.
    In Starchild scenario Dark Energy doesn't matter - synthetics were a menace to life, not galaxy.
    You did not understand. The Catalyst ending doesn't exclude Dark energy it just doesn't use it as the motivation for the Reaper cycle. I was saying that the Organic versus Synthetic conflict could have been disrupting research into Dark Energy and so Leviathan created the Catalyst to find a solution to that problem. They wanted a solution to stop it so they could focus their attention on Dark Energy and not on the pathetic squabbling of lesser life forms.

    I'm not mixing the two scenarios. I was point out that the problem of Dark Energy effecting a star has existed for at least 300 years in the Mass Effect Universe. And study of it was interrupted by a synthetic life form. You said a species would fail for not noticing the problem in time. So what is in time? Because at least two species knew about Dark Energy destabilizing a star at least 300 years prior to the Reaper invasion. Why wouldn't the reapers pick one of those two? why would they pick someone because of genetic diversity instead of for having studied and considered the problem?

    Maybe I should. Because you do not know lore of ME that well. Hence all the wiki links... you miss a lot of crucial details. The one in particular here is that: all that you mentioned was derived from Relays. The whole Mass Effect technology that causes the problem. Comes from Relays. The reaper technology placed there to be found...I explained that before already, numerous times.
    I use wiki links to back up my claims and to prove to you that it isn't something I'm making up but something supported in the game. Eezo doesn't exist because of the Mass Relays. Eezo exists because Eezo exists. If Dark Energy is a huge problem that the Reapers need to cull people about every 50,000 years in order to stop, why would they generate an exponential amount more each cycle?


    To solve it, DOH!
    Oh so solving the problem is generating a ton of Dark Energy? Brilliant! We fix the problem by creating more of the problem! Mass relays and Eezo all generate dark energy. The only way dark energy scenario would make sense is if the Reapers are trying to stop the loss of dark energy. Which isn't supported by Haestrom. As it says the star is destabilizing because of to much dark energy and not to little.

    No. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, it's not like you turn the Core on and galaxy goes boom. No. The problem is there but it is far from being an immediate danger.
    Then why have a cycle? Why cull everyone every 50,000 years if its not an immediate threat?

    WHAT FLAW?
    And how can you see any sense in Organic vs Synthetics? It's stupid. You do not need no cycles nor harvesting to achieve that. You can even go all the peaceful way you so enjoy... Please stop this bullshit. There will be no Dark Energy problem in ME unless they retcon ME3 entirely. Including DLCs. Like Leviathan.
    The flaw of Dark Energy being a problem but we are going to have every cycle use only technology that generates Dark Energy. Everything in Mass Effect that uses Eezo generates Dark Energy. That would be an exponential growth each cycle. We learn that leviathan is old, very old. That means there would have been hundreds if not thousands of cycles adding a TON of dark energy to the universe.


    I'm not talking about ENDINGS.
    Yes you are. The Dark Energy leak was the ending for Mass Effect. It was changed for the ending to be about Synthetic versus Organics.

    The premise was MAKING SENSE. It wasn't "forget everything" - it was "remember all that? now you know what it meant"
    So why does Because of Dark Energy magically makes every thing make sense. But Because of Chaos doesn't? They both do the same for everything in Mass Effect. One is just being put up on a pedestal because it was denied to you. You even ignore the flaws of the Dark Energy theory in order to keep it up on that pedestal.

    Fuuuuuck... The question was: why the fuck do they need the keepers/sovereign/whatever. Who builds an enormous Alarm Clock and then places it so far away - so you need help hearing it? Couldn't they just come over every 50000 years to check things out? This is not just some question. It's plain stupidity in Synthetics vs Organics scenario. Why Reapers even retreat to dark space in the first place? Why? I do not get it. Arrival DLC was just plain stupid. No wonder, it was made in light of ME3. Somehow reapers came. So what's the point of Sovereign? Harbinger?
    What if life didn't evolve to use space travel in 50,000 years? Why would they fly all that way just to find out they had nothing to destroy? Remember the reapers don't destroy all life. Just all life that meets their criteria. Reapers retreat to Dark space because they aren't just about the extermination of all life. They want people to evolve and grow with out them around. If they stayed around then someone might fight them off or develop ways to fight them and leave them for the next cycle. As Liara did if you fail in the game.

    The catalyst was created to Preserve life. The Catalyst is merely a computer program and thus is still bound by its programing to see its task completed. That is why the cycle exists because it is the way that the Catalyst sees to preserve life while at the same time solving the problem his creators tasked him to solve. The problem of the endless chaos always caused by Organics versus Synthetics.

    Sovereign was the Vanguard. The Reaper left behind to monitor and collect intel about the current cycle. And to send the signal to the Citadel when the cycle was ready. The Keepers were the slaves who maintained the Citadel while all other traces of the Reapers remained hidden. Sovereign could have been any other Reaper. Harbinger and Sovereign aren't special in the fact that they are critical to the cycle happening.

    Why they need them to make a call? Of course keepers have many other uses. That's irrelevant.
    Their uses are relevant because it explains why the Reapers keep them around and need them. They need the keepers to make the call and prepare the Citadel because the Reapers hide all traces of themselves each cycle. The Keepers are the one who change the Citadel around so it can function as a giant mass relay and whatever else the Reapers need it for. The reason why we see the citadel so change at the end of Mass Effect 3 was because of the keepers.

    Yeah. it fits nicely into Dark Energy scenario. But not into the Synthetics vs Organics. the sole goal of Reapers - not allowing Synthetics. Sovereign was obligated to destroy Geth - he didn't. Keepers could be replaced by any other race - Asari would do nicely. Not to mention the fact that they do not need keepers. You're grasping for straws.
    The reapers are not anti synthetic. Sovereign wasn't obligated to destroy the geth he was obligated to eventually preserve them and then destroy them. Like they do every other form of life in the galaxy each cycle. The Keepers could be replaced by every other race but Sovereign thought that a machine race would be less open to corruption then an organic one. The Asari would have had the same potential flaws as the keepers did. Sovereign wanted to use the Geth instead of an organic race for the Citadel care takers.

    If they do not need keepers who will get the Citadel ready for the next cycle? Who will keep the Citadel running? Life Support running? Remember the Citadel's central control hub isn't known by anyone. It is something that is hidden from non-reapers. The keepers or something that did the keepers role is needed otherwise the Citadel would just be a floating hunk of space junk not useful to anyone.

    It just makes no sense. Reapers could patrol the galaxy and peacefully remind everyone to not build no AI. Punish the rule breakers. Keep the ORDER. Something we see in blue ending. Funny heh?
    As I said Leviathan explained that someone always broke the rules, and the chaos started all over again. The Reapers are not meant to be jailors or slavers. They are meant to preserve life (both synthetic and organic) in reaper form because no other way could the conflict stopped. Destroy and Control doesn't stop the problem. This is why Synthesis is the "perfect score" ending. It is the only ending that actually solves the problem.

    A peaceful solution is to outlaw AI and enforce it - reapers can enforce it. There would've been no humans though as there would've been no cycles. But it would've worked.
    AI is already outlawed in the current cycle with the Citadel able to enforce it. Guess what? It still is created. Just because you outlaw something and have someone around to enforce it doesn't mean it will actually stop. Also how would the Reapers enforce it? Turn you into a reaper if you break the rule? Just kill you? And you don't think eventually someone would revolt against such control and mass murder?

    If the Reapers were always around then they could be defeated easier. Just like every other rebellion in real world history. Oppressed people eventually find enough flaws in the system where they can over throw their oppressors. I'm sure the Reapers tried exactly what you think is the only possible reason. Remember they have had millions if not billions of years to do this. We have only seen one cycle and partial glimpses of other cycles.

    In one synthetic life could have been the dominate force when the Reapers came. In another they could have stuck around and tried to police the building of AI (though as Leviathan points out they were doing this and failing at it. So they created the Catalyst and started the Reaper threat). In one all life could have wiped itself out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 02:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    And Rhorle, a robot philosophing is hardly equal to lets say, anything.
    Why is EDI less then any other organic? The clip I provide has her thinking of it because Liara asked her to do so. The laws of the universe remain the same for organics thinking about it as they do a synthetic thinking about it. If it is possible under the laws of the universe it doesn't matter what species thought of it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •