Thread: CRZ is stupid

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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by PiCreator View Post
    Yes we use realid But we also want to play together on different realms so we use CRZ
    Guilds play, real ID play and open world play across servers is the real new future of Blizzard's MMO's.

    You address multi millions of players that can populate thousands of content offers throughout the game.

    5 years ago it went like this with friends :" hi I play WoW ! " " Oh cool , me too !..." so on what server are you playing? ...

    After which the conversation ended...

    Because you had ... 1 chance in 400 to play on the same server ...

  2. #682
    Deleted
    I wich it was me, I like some challenge

  3. #683
    CRZ is the best thing that has ever happened to wow. I personally know around 100 people that resubbed for this feature alone. And alot of their friends are coming back for the experience. It's beautiful. I'm so glad it's going to stay.

  4. #684
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TehBlkMage View Post
    Now it's pretty much even then. I'm sure the Horde players are grateful to balance it out (less likely to get ganked if the population ratio is 1:1). If it was 99:1 I'd almost never want to leave Dalaran because I'd be sure that I'd never get help in a 99v1 fight (improbable, but if you're roaming around and your population is 99:1, that means you should theoretically see 99 Alliance per Horde) and people love to gang up and pick on people.

    I will say though. I play on a PvP server with the expectation that there's always someone out to get me. I almost never attack anyone first, but if they try to gank me for no reason I'll gladly camp them for the rest of the day or the rest of the xpac. I know one guy Ally side who killed me twice while fighting mobs on my Horde character and after that I ended up camping him and killing him about 10 times before he found a 90 that would kill me for him after making up some BS thing about me just ganking and following him out of nowhere. Ended up talking to the Ally guy on my main and he agreed that the guy was a prick and wouldn't have saved him if he knew what was happening. :P I did promise the other guy that I would hunt him for the rest of the xpac for fun because it's not nice to gank people and cry about it if your plans go sour and you get served instead.
    My realm became as populated because the entire alliance community realm FCMed from one of the oldest EU servers (which was a horde realm with login queues) to this one which is now an alliance realm of 1:0,35 or something like that. So its not like Kazzak (completely horde realm) or Silvermoon (completely alliance realm).

    I think its generally established more people roll horde than alliance, and it appears my CRZ is now dominated by horde.

    Deja vu?

    As for your second statement (not directed to me) I don't see the point of revenge. If you lose a battle, take the loss and move on. That's in the context of ganking or other low forms of wPvP (killing a fellow who just chain pulled something and got to 20% of health); if you're talking about RP PvP, strategic point defense I find it a different matter.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    As for your second statement (not directed to me) I don't see the point of revenge. If you lose a battle, take the loss and move on. That's in the context of ganking or other low forms of wPvP (killing a fellow who just chain pulled something and got to 20% of health); if you're talking about RP PvP, strategic point defense I find it a different matter.
    I know it seems a bit petty, but I'm all for playing nice. I'll wait till they're somewhat healed to full and aren't pulling mobs to go and kill them. I consider it more of a learning opportunity for them not to try to gank people who are low health or preoccupied with creatures. Especially if when put 1v1 the person is better than them. There have been a few times where people try to gank my main and I end up killing them because they're awful and I just have to laugh at them. If it's something like that I don't mind and won't go out after them because I'm sure they learned their lesson. However, when it's one person doing the same thing to several people over and over again (attacking them while they're attacking a pack of mobs) and are cowardly about it (running when confronted then coming back when the player is doing something) I have no issue with showing them what it's like to be on the opposite end of the stick. Then maybe, just maybe, they'll know not to try it again soon because they don't know if the player they're possibly going to gank will be like me.
    Quote Originally Posted by shocktopuslol View Post
    pokemon stadium, digletts scare the fuck out of me

  6. #686
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TehBlkMage View Post
    I know it seems a bit petty, but I'm all for playing nice. I'll wait till they're somewhat healed to full and aren't pulling mobs to go and kill them. I consider it more of a learning opportunity for them not to try to gank people who are low health or preoccupied with creatures. Especially if when put 1v1 the person is better than them. There have been a few times where people try to gank my main and I end up killing them because they're awful and I just have to laugh at them. If it's something like that I don't mind and won't go out after them because I'm sure they learned their lesson. However, when it's one person doing the same thing to several people over and over again (attacking them while they're attacking a pack of mobs) and are cowardly about it (running when confronted then coming back when the player is doing something) I have no issue with showing them what it's like to be on the opposite end of the stick. Then maybe, just maybe, they'll know not to try it again soon because they don't know if the player they're possibly going to gank will be like me.
    By trying to get back at him you feed the troll. He's trolling. The fellow in this thread who enjoys receiving those hate mails and messages is doing just that. There's 2 things you can do to a bully: ignore him, and beat the shit out of him so he'll never do it again.

  7. #687
    So people aren't really used to being ganked by a max lvl char, because a lot of them were not here in TBC or Vanilla I think.

    I remember being sap-camped in Booty Bay, or the constant battles that occured at Nesingwary's camp, where the faction with the most max lvl chars or equal lvl chars whooped the other factions asses and their chars could use the camp as a quest hub. While the other team could be lucky to get a few quests in, or wait for more players to gather up.
    Basically, Nesingwary was a zone like Tol Barad, but it just happened to be like that because of the players, that were in the world... of warcraft.
    And imo, that is completely amazing, something evolving into that just by having a world where people themselves make sure what happens inside it.
    I have no idea how I would even handle the happiness from seeing that in my own world if I had created a game like this.
    It's like having an ant-farm and see your ants build tunnels and shit and shaping their world. Awesome.

    Some of the PvP is fun and sometimes it is boring, it's just the way it is really. You will have different lvl's, you will have people that thinks it's fun to ruin for others.

    There are some solutions ofc:

    Quest in another area.
    Log out for a little while (wich is what I do, just tab out for 10-15min after being camped 2-3 times)
    Get friends to help you gank them back.
    Have your own max lvl'd char in the same area you are questing in.

    Imo, it is 100% obvious they should have CRZ, why? Because the game is evolving and features like exp in bg's, heirlooms and dungeon finder are really good features for the game, while at the same time hurting the world in the MMORPG they have made, so an addon to these very good features are to add CRZ to keep the world in world of warcraft alive.

  8. #688
    I really, really, really, LOVE CRZ.

    My guild has a notorious reputation for ganking everyone and everything, now that this has happened... holy poop. It gets INTENSE in the world. We had at least 5 full 40 man Raid Groups assembled and lead by our guild (with random people in the world and other servers of coourse) and just out to defend our Horde. You guys may not like it, but for us Vanilla Veterans... man, it felt fucking GREAT! It was just a massive war at the Dark Portal one night, just mayhem. It was a truly glorious experience, something that had died a long time ago.

    Now it's back and it's kicking ass. Guess how it all started? Alliance ganking our Horde Alts, the Horde getting friends, those friends getting friends, those friends getting friends, random people typing in local defense, people typing in Trade, people typing in General chat. Guess what? The Alliance did it as well and it was such an epic battle with OTHER full Raid groups not coordinated by us participating.

  9. #689
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumsnut View Post
    So people aren't really used to being ganked by a max lvl char, because a lot of them were not here in TBC or Vanilla I think.

    I remember being sap-camped in Booty Bay, or the constant battles that occured at Nesingwary's camp, where the faction with the most max lvl chars or equal lvl chars whooped the other factions asses and their chars could use the camp as a quest hub. While the other team could be lucky to get a few quests in, or wait for more players to gather up.
    Basically, Nesingwary was a zone like Tol Barad, but it just happened to be like that because of the players, that were in the world... of warcraft.
    And imo, that is completely amazing, something evolving into that just by having a world where people themselves make sure what happens inside it.
    I have no idea how I would even handle the happiness from seeing that in my own world if I had created a game like this.
    It's like having an ant-farm and see your ants build tunnels and shit and shaping their world. Awesome.
    All fine 'n dandy but that wasn't x-realm.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    All fine 'n dandy but that wasn't x-realm.
    No? I don't know about yours, but my whole experience with CRZ is that the game is that the world in World of warcraft is back. But with a few more max lvl chars ganking because they haven't experienced PvP like this because they weren't here in vanilla or tbc.

  11. #691
    Deleted
    But what about us pvp players that rolled a pvp server before WOTLKrerollers and actually enjoyed pvp but are pissed off at the pvp state today cause Blizzard likes pvers more than us pvpers which ends up with pvp servers being crap cause its a pve friendly game but with forced pvp with nothing that can force griefers to get punished blablablabla?

    Is it still our fault that we rolled a pvp server?
    Last edited by mmoc664e732ce0; 2012-11-19 at 12:01 PM.

  12. #692
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumsnut View Post
    No? I don't know about yours, but my whole experience with CRZ is that the game is that the world in World of warcraft is back. But with a few more max lvl chars ganking because they haven't experienced PvP like this because they weren't here in vanilla or tbc.
    Back in Vanilla and TBC. World PvP. Wasn't x-realm. That's what I meant.

    If you still don't understand that, then I will explain it further: realm culture.

    CRZ lacks this. Maybe its a matter of time, but it feels rather disjointed and too large, too anonymous.

    If you still don't understand I have a movie suggestion for you: Dogville.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren View Post
    But what about us pvp players that rolled a pvp server before WOTLKrerollers and actually enjoyed pvp but are pissed off at the pvp state today cause Blizzard likes pvers more than us pvpers which ends up with pvp servers being crap cause its a pve friendly game but with forced pvp with nothing that can force griefers to get punished blablablabla?

    Is it still our fault that we rolled a pvp server?
    World PvP wise a PvP player has nothing to complain about. They can finally use their PvP gear and skills out in the open again.

    However what about us who play alts and simply cannot be arsed to grind PvP gear? PvP gear grind is the most silly thing invented next to peanut butter. It should be welfare handed out. And then we will see who is pro at PvP and who's the shitter. I surely lolled hard while lvling up in MoP the first week. Why free? If everyone can get the gear with no effort, it becomes a matter of skill. But of course this would never happen because its a subscription-based game with grinds.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren View Post
    But what about us pvp players that rolled a pvp server before WOTLKrerollers and actually enjoyed pvp but are pissed off at the pvp state today cause Blizzard likes pvers more than us pvpers which ends up with pvp servers being crap cause its a pve friendly game but with forced pvp with nothing that can force griefers to get punished blablablabla?

    Is it still our fault that we rolled a pvp server?
    Well, as a PvP'er since vanilla, without any interest in PvE whatsoever except the start of TBC where I did Kara, Gruul and a little bit of TK, I understand you.
    It is kind of frustrating that we, PvP'ers, are never prioritized, but you have to understand that an insanely large majority of the WoW playerbase are PvE'ers, simple as that.

    I think that the lvl system with grey, green, yellow, orange, red and ?? for mobs and players is good.
    Why not implement that in ganking where a grey-kill gives a penalty, I don't know, maybe something in the line of the debuff-system in WSG and TP for flag carriers or ress sickness. Just a quick thought.
    I mean, I think it should be a part of the game, even if it is annoying, I signed up for it when joining a PvP server, but it should really be discouraged to just corpse gank low lvl's.

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Back in Vanilla and TBC. World PvP. Wasn't x-realm. That's what I meant.

    If you still don't understand that, then I will explain it further: realm culture.

    CRZ lacks this. Maybe its a matter of time, but it feels rather disjointed and too large, too anonymous.

    If you still don't understand I have a movie suggestion for you: Dogville.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:13 PM ----------

    World PvP wise a PvP player has nothing to complain about. They can finally use their PvP gear and skills out in the open again.

    However what about us who play alts and simply cannot be arsed to grind PvP gear? PvP gear grind is the most silly thing invented next to peanut butter. It should be welfare handed out. And then we will see who is pro at PvP and who's the shitter. I surely lolled hard while lvling up in MoP the first week. Why free? If everyone can get the gear with no effort, it becomes a matter of skill. But of course this would never happen because its a subscription-based game with grinds.
    Still don't see the problem with CRZ if you liked world PvP back in vanilla and tbc.
    Realm culture, sure, I remember having a grudge with certain people, but I can have a grudge with people during CRZ too, I have had and I will continue to have and I will find them and I will kill them.
    And I really think realm culture is dependent on what types of guilds there are. My guild is amazing, with people that have stuck together since WoW started basically, full PvP, about 70 different members with about 100 chars in the guild, doing arenas, rbg's, world pvp, even arranging guild-contests where we play arena against eachother etc.
    People just need to not join the 700+ member-guilds that spams invites to everyone in the starting zones. That's what makes the realms lose it's charm and make players just not part of any group of people to do stuff with, wich happened in the world before. It's not CRZ fault.

    If PvP gear is silly and should be handed out and not grinded, isn't it the same for PvE gear then? It should be handed out so people can just start doing raids from the start.
    BG's > heroics, arena/rbg > raids.
    You can buy BoE gear for both PvE and PvP that is enough.
    It does not work that way whatsoever. Remember the progression you had to do before? Go from the first raid to get gear for doing progress in next tier and so on.
    It needs to stay, somewhat, for the feel of accomplishment and progression.
    Same with PvP gear, it's fun to do BG's and get your first piece and then progress and get more pieces, then you start noticing a difference in survivability and damage, etc.

    Sure, equal gear is good, but that still exists with no rating required on the gear. I always find it fun to meet people with better gear than me and whoop their asses.
    It also makes it harder, wich means I need to play even better to beat them, wich means I evolve into a better PvP'er.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Was going to do some solo uldaur yesterday, and lo and behold while flying there I saw the "timelost" luckily it was just 5 seconds from the ulduar flight point so as soon I got off I went to kill it and POOF it wasn't there.

    CRZ sucks.
    Not sure if serious...
    That's the way it was before CRZ too.
    Last edited by Dumsnut; 2012-11-19 at 12:37 PM.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Casthiel View Post
    i chose a pvp server too, because there are many good guilds and it is a crowded server. But i chose very carefully to go to a server where the faction i chose is 99% of players in that server, exactly to avoid alts being ganked. If i knew they would add CRZ, i would have chosen a pve server. Now im stuck there or have to pay to move.

    It doesnt matter how many times you say 'pvp happened in a pvp server', this system IS stupid. It only makes ganking efficient. No friends, no help for quests, nothing.
    So you tried to game the system to avoid pvp on a pvp server. You won for a while and made the game worse for everyone else by overloading one side of the server. Then you lost and now you're crying about it. Don't be a sore loser. Take it like a man, pay the price to transfer or


    ...sunglasses

    DEAL WITH IT.

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Folks can say the same when wholesale ganking going on, at the expense of the game itself.

    What new player would enjoy seeing that as standard operating procedure in a MMO? EvE even curtails wholesale griefing by making it a very expensive to keep at it. Gate campers are reduced to salvage runs to try to keep the cost low, as losing tech 2 gear is p-a-i-n-f-u-l. Same with other MMOs, as the last thing these MMOs want is losing new blood.
    You can't really compare EvE to WoW, they use completely different systems for pretty much everything they do.

    And your point is missing many of the key facts too. EvE doesent curtail wholesale ganking by makeing it prohibitively expensive. That only occurs if people try to gank in the "PvE" part of the game. EvE curtails wholesale ganking by makeing it pretty obvious that High-sec zones are for PvE and are largely safe from random acts of violence, while low sec zones are places where you better watch your ass at all times. Much the way WoW curtails Wholesale ganking by seperating PvP and PvE servers into seperate servers. You dont want to be ganked in WoW? Roll on a PvE server. You dont want to be ganked in EvE? Stay the hell out of Low-Sec. It really is that simple. EvE simply seperates things by zoneing within the server, rather then having seperate servers for each.

    You are partially right in that EvE noobs can not be ganked wholesale, but then again, neither can WoW newbs. Unless they rolled on a PvP server and are in a contested zone, or are flagged for PvP (hey, imagine that).

    It is also worth noting that while it is pretty much completely impossible to be PvPd against your will in a WoW PvE server, there is very little that will prevent you from being PvPd against your will in EvE, no matter where you are. If someone in EvE wants you dead, You WILL be dead eventually. Sure, it might cost them a bit of cash to replace their ship when the guards kill them, but most suicide gankers dont really care, and their cheap (for them) kill on you could cost you signifigantly more.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2012-11-19 at 12:47 PM.

  17. #697
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumsnut View Post
    Still don't see the problem with CRZ if you liked world PvP back in vanilla and tbc.
    Realm culture, sure, I remember having a grudge with certain people, but I can have a grudge with people during CRZ too, I have had and I will continue to have and I will find them and I will kill them.

    If PvP gear is silly and should be handed out and not grinded, isn't it the same for PvE gear then? It should be handed out so people can just start doing raids from the start.
    BG's > heroics, arena/rbg > raids.
    You can buy BoE gear for both PvE and PvP that is enough.
    It does not work that way whatsoever. Remember the progression you had to do before? Go from the first raid to get gear for doing progress in next tier and so on.
    It needs to stay, somewhat, for the feel of accomplishment and progression.
    Same with PvP gear, it's fun to do BG's and get your first piece and then progress and get more pieces, then you start noticing a difference in survivability and damage, etc.

    Sure, equal gear is good, but that still exists with no rating required on the gear. I always find it fun to meet people with better gear than me and whoop their asses.
    It also makes it harder, wich means I need to play even better to beat them, wich means I evolve into a better PvP'er.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:26 PM ----------



    Not sure if serious...
    That's the way it was before CRZ too.
    I've played on a PvE server before and it feels downright silly not being able to fight with members from opposing force. I remember arriving on Darkshore and having some high level ganking the guards there.

    I like PvP in MMO (and sometimes FPS; RTS PvP isn't my cup of tea), but I don't want to grind or compete in the treadmill of grinding PvP gear. That's why I quit SWTOR (+ the lag and fact they nerfed the spec of the class I played which I liked). A game like GW2 much better suits my PvP needs because I don't need PvP gear there. Heck, I don't even need to level up. Or pay for a sub. So the PvP I had was in Pandaria (which was alright except I started to notice I was hitting people for bugger all after the 1st week because I don't have PvP gear) and the pet battles (which is pretty silly because you're doing non-action based, tactical combat and should be phased out). Either way a game like GW2 is much more friendly to entry level or casual PvP because it lacks the gear grind, all levels are equal, making it entirely about skill.

    With PvE gear its different from PvP gear because its part of the min-maxing game to do the loot distribution, spending VP on item upgrades (even more advanced soon), gem, forge, enchant, charms, research and theorycraft, play beta to say play with a trinket, etc. I'm not a fan of the RNG aspect with gear drops (its too random, especially in 10m), but am happy the charms can alleviate some of it giving the player power and responsibility on this. Unfortunately the 15 sec time window is not enough during loot distribution to decide if one should pop their charm. So I don't see that as equal, and due to their nature in PvE you first compete vs computer and then vs other also trying to beat computer.

    The crafted blues is a downgrade for a raider. Also while questing in Pandaria you'd hit jack squat with those. So those would take longer. You'd take more damage from PvE due to that. It doesn't take a rocket scientist from the opposing faction to smell such an undergeared player.

  18. #698
    Stood in the Fire Jektar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fexus View Post
    This is completely untrue for the third time in this thread. "Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game." Quoted from the Code of Conduct. Blizzard's view is that on a pvp server, neither camping nor ganking are considered griefing, and therefore are not against the ToS.
    Untrue to a point. They're all for getting on mains and extracting revenge and for a little world pvp. It's just they only will do something if it becomes unplayable for the person. I.E. Camping for hours on end and killing quest npcs. They're all for pvp and low level ganking and the fight back. It just takes alot to be considered griefing.

    Section H. in part 2. in the EULA

    "disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service or any Game environment (each a “Server”); or (ii) any other player’s Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ANY GAME MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS."

    "Any other player's game experience"

    Also CoC

    "C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following: "

    ^Certain acts go beyond what is "fair" Which includes what could be essence of the game. But however long term camping takes a bit to be even considered griefing.
    Last edited by Jektar; 2012-11-19 at 12:58 PM.

  19. #699
    Don't play an MMO if you don't want to be around other people.
    Don't play on a PVP server if you don't want to be killed by other people.

    I think the only mistake some of you made was thinking this was a single player game.

  20. #700
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by VoljinforWarchief View Post
    Don't play an MMO if you don't want to be around other people.
    Don't play on a PVP server if you don't want to be killed by other people.

    I think the only mistake some of you made was thinking this was a single player game.
    Killed by other people isn't the problem. My PvP server has a certain size, realm culture.

    By your logic I should've smoked some acid and seen this all coming. Yeah, indeed it was a stupid mistake to start playing WoW. I mean, I should have kept the possibility of CRZ being introduced in mind

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