Resto weapon enchant..

[Deleted]

You missed his point, like it has been said before different contexts, different solutions. The shaman with 5k spirit was ok because there is 2 other shamans in his roster.
Your logs and armory can explain why you feel ok with less mana, because it's a general rule that shaman must reforge to sprit.

It's very interresting to check other people experiences throught logs because it might change our point of view.

Don't be paranoiac we believe you !

Fair enough, but I am not Jynus. I got 13k combat regen, so I'm not any different then other Shamans or healers, I would have had a lot more which hurted my overal performance as I ended fight with 50% mana left, so sacrificing it for own benefit shouldn't be proven. : p 5k spirit shoulder. I was extremely ill last night and we were progressing through two new bosses which I had some faint moment so I'm showing logs from other day. -.- slept 16 hours...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...on/details/12/

[Glurp]

Still you are making no sense... All I said I changed gems from spirit to intellect, if you are dumb to read and need proof

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cathina/simple <-- my character, see no blue spirit gem!

Can't believe people need proof for gems... -.-

I never said I don't believe you. I just want to see logs and an armory link to see why that build works for you in your raid group and if possibly changing to that build myself could be worth trying...

[Jynus]

Guess I need to 2heal 10mans again and log this time. lesigh. you can't do this, you can't do that, bla bla bla. gets old. You guys spend far too much time telling others what they can't do rather than trying to figure out what you can do.

[Zues]

Still you are making no sense... All I said I changed gems from spirit to intellect, if you are dumb to read and need proof

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cathina/simple <-- my character, see no blue spirit gem!

Can't believe people need proof for gems... -.-

You have one heroic kill in MGV, and don't have HoF/ToES cleared. While your opinion is always welcome, I figured it was obvious that we were talking about stats for shamans who were doing progressive raiding.

If we want talk stat priority for normals, go ahead and stack the hell out of INT. If your dps is any good, the boss will be down long before you're OOM.

[Deleted]

You have one heroic kill in MGV, and don't have HoF/ToES cleared. While your opinion is always welcome, I figured it was obvious that we were talking about stats for shamans who were doing progressive raiding.

If we want talk stat priority for normals, go ahead and stack the hell out of INT. If your dps is any good, the boss will be down long before you're OOM.

I didn't wanted this discussion to happen now, I was mainly just stating a personal opinion on myself, if that is wrong to do so then I have no idea what is wrong with the world these days. I am sorry for being a person with a own opinion on how she is playing, never said why/how others should play so ye......

If you are only a good wow player because you are doing heroics, then that is really being ignorant at best without knowing the real reason why we can't do heroics at the moment. We would've done MSV heroics all along if it wasn't for member issues.

I am leaving this discussion now as clearly you can only state a opinion if you are doing heroics and I'm not good enough.

[Jynus]

Is Jynus still harping on about his 5k spirit? Give it up. You can't 2 heal any 10 man fight, let alone on heroic, with Cataclysm levels of spirit. Just keep that little tidbit to yourself instead of us having to explain to everyone why you're wrong every time. Someone's who's actually casting more than two heals will need more than 5k Spirit. A lot more.

Except I have 2 healed fights... this is starting to get old. Fact: every normal raid boss in mop can easily be healed with 5k spirit. 10 or 25 man. Most heroics can to. And yes that includes 2 heal 10. Only a bad healer should think otherwise.

[Madhoof]

Except I have 2 healed fights... this is starting to get old. Fact: every normal raid boss in mop can easily be healed with 5k spirit. 10 or 25 man. Most heroics can to. And yes that includes 2 heal 10. Only a bad healer should think otherwise.

Or a healer that has to because not him/her is bad but the group, the other healer he has to 2-heal the fight with, etc.

Calling everyone a bad healer who has a different opinion than you doesn't make you look like the theorycrafting god you are but like a random troll

[Zues]

Except I have 2 healed fights... this is starting to get old. Fact: every normal raid boss in mop can easily be healed with 5k spirit. 10 or 25 man. Most heroics can to. And yes that includes 2 heal 10. Only a bad healer should think otherwise.

^ This. Most fights, if executed PERFECTLY (myriad of examples, Will of the Emp, Feng, Spirit Kings, blah blah blah) don't require much healing on anyone but the tanks. But everyone derps here and there, and gets hit by something, even if by RNG bad luck. Every fight is 2 healable (in 10 man) on regular, though for fights like Gara'jal, 3 would be nice to avoid bad RNG with voodoo dolls.

I didn't wanted this discussion to happen now, I was mainly just stating a personal opinion on myself, if that is wrong to do so then I have no idea what is wrong with the world these days. I am sorry for being a person with a own opinion on how she is playing, never said why/how others should play so ye......

If you are only a good wow player because you are doing heroics, then that is really being ignorant at best without knowing the real reason why we can't do heroics at the moment. We would've done MSV heroics all along if it wasn't for member issues.

I am leaving this discussion now as clearly you can only state a opinion if you are doing heroics and I'm not good enough.

I never said your opinion wasn't welcome, just that I disagreed with it. I also disagree with your opinion of being able to clear MGV H, once again pointing out that you have only one H SG kill, and no HoF clear either. Heartsong might be nice for you, but once again, 200 spirit isn't that much. A 1650 INT proc would definitely lead to an increase in his heal numbers, especially if he keeps track of it and lays down an empowered HR during the duration of the buff (without overhealing, of course).

Also, you're missing your ring enchants.

I mean, if you're really, REALLY struggling with mana, go balls out on Heartsong. But both Power Torrent and Jade Spirit are much, much better enchants.

[Deleted]

^ This. Most fights, if executed PERFECTLY (myriad of examples, Will of the Emp, Feng, Spirit Kings, blah blah blah) don't require much healing on anyone but the tanks. But everyone derps here and there, and gets hit by something, even if by RNG bad luck. Every fight is 2 healable (in 10 man) on regular, though for fights like Gara'jal, 3 would be nice to avoid bad RNG with voodoo dolls.



I never said your opinion wasn't welcome, just that I disagreed with it. I also disagree with your opinion of being able to clear MGV H, once again pointing out that you have only one H SG kill, and no HoF clear either. Heartsong might be nice for you, but once again, 200 spirit isn't that much. A 1650 INT proc would definitely lead to an increase in his heal numbers, especially if he keeps track of it and lays down an empowered HR during the duration of the buff (without overhealing, of course).

Also, you're missing your ring enchants.

I mean, if you're really, REALLY struggling with mana, go balls out on Heartsong. But both Power Torrent and Jade Spirit are much, much better enchants.

I have no mana issues, I only said I had none so changed my spirit gems to intellect ones, and that it is working better for me then the blue gems ever did because I'm not behind on the other healers anymore. :'( Why does people not read my entire post? I didn't say anything about Heroic raids either before, so I have no idea why you are going on about it... I only wanted to say my own preference not start a discussion about heroic/normals.

Nothing is wrong with my gear! Why would I need Heartsong! Last thing I need is more Spirit. _-_ I want Jade enchant, saving up for it at the moment. I actually think you are confussing me with someone else Zues.

[Zues]

You have no mana issues because you do regulars, my dear. That's the point.

[Deleted]

You have no mana issues because you do regulars, my dear. That's the point.

That's why I said I changed to Intellect, my dearest, so I could increase my performance. All I ever meant to say, suprised went into further discussion. I know difference between normal and heroics, I know I will change my gems/reforge around later on.

[Waterisbest]

Where are the logs for 80k+ healing done with only 5k spirit? Can someone post them?

[Deleted]

could you tell me Jynus or someone tell me why we need 64% mastery?

[Holofernes]

because mastery is good! it makes your heals heal more.

[Zues]

You don't need 64% mastery. Anywhere from 55-65% is fine, along with however much spirit you feel is necessary, first haste cap, then rest crit.

[Totaltotemic]

Damage outputs on normal modes is just plain insulting to healers. Of course you can get by with 5k spirit even when 2 healing, you can probably heal most fights using nothing but HST and HW. Frankly, discussing required Spirit levels for normal modes is pointless, they're balanced around people with 463 gear, not full 476+. Try doing heroic Feng or Gara'jal before telling anyone else that they're wrong because they say that 8k+ is mandatory. My guild 4 or 5 heals most normal modes now in 25 man, if you even have 2 competent healers on most 10 man fights you won't see any mana constraints. I swear this is just like his haste stacking crusade in Cataclysm again...

[Tiberria]

No one is going to take someone advocating gearing down to 5000 Spirit (in the context of how to gear for serious progression) seriously when they have 0 heroic kills and haven't even cleared normal mode. You could probably put pure expertise gems in every single gem socket and be able to heal normal modes without an issue.

Sure, 5000 Spirit I am sure is enough when all that you are doing is ULE-HR on CD, Riptide on CD, HST on CD, and then using your cooldowns and not really blowing mana except during Ascendance. And, I'm sure that that is enough to get by in most normal modes. However, in heroics, it just flat out is not going to cut it; you absolutely need to be burning mana on single target heals and burning mana on supplementing AoE output with Chain Heal. HPS requirements for most heroics are 70k - 100k. You are not going to be able to pull that without heavily investing into Spirit. To have a valid argument, show us some armories of Resto Shaman that have 6+ HMs down that are running under 10,000 Spirit let alone 5000.

On top of that, you have to remember that even if you can make it marginally more personal throughput, not maximizing Spirit is selfish because of the impact that it has on Mana Tide and the regen of the other healers in the raid. Even if you are fine at 5000 Spirit, how is the other healer's regen? Especially, how is it if you have to limit yourself to a highly efficient casting rotation because you have so little Spirit? At 5000 SPI, you are gimping what both yourself and every other healer in the raid is getting from MTT by 50-70%. Even if a low Spirit build is slightly more throughput for you, it probably doesn't make up for the lost regen of the other 3-6 healers in the raid.

[Wheater]

I recently made the switch to Jade Serpent and I prefer it quite a bit. The spirit is a life saver when low, and the int is always wonderful to have.

[Tiberria]

Here is the comparison between the weapon enchants.

Windsong - average 40% uptime on each of the 3 enchants, making it worth
600 Crit
600 Mastery
600 Haste

Jade Spirit - average 25% uptime making it worth
412 INT
or
188 SPI when below 25% mana

I think that the enchants are not even close; it's pretty clear that Windsong destroys Jade Spirit in terms of value at least until the 5.1 changes to Jade Spirit's proc. There is no way that you can argue that 412 INT beats 1800 secondary stats. Jade Spirit also has all of the problems that Power Torrent did in that it has a low uptime on a throughput proc that is not guaranteed to be up when you need it the most and is just as likely to proc during times when it will result in mostly overheal. Throughput procs for healing are generally to be avoided. If anything, Windsong is more consisten,t, because of the higher uptime and the combination of the multiple buffs.

The Spirit component of Jade Spirit is also barely worth considering. You shouldn't spend that much time sub -25% mana, and even when you do, the enchant is only worth around 90 mp5, which is extremely trivial.

There is almost no justification for using Jade Spirit at this point; the only people that are are probably assuming that the fact it has a more expensive mats cost means that it is a better enchant. The numbers don't support that in any way, but will have to be re-evaluated once 5.1 hits.

[Holofernes]

your windsong uptimes of 40% for 3 enchants is a little bit weird.
i used windsong before jadespirit and cannot confirm the windsong uptimes u listed, there are double procs occuring (but they are rare), and the uptime was more like 25-30 %, of any one of the possible statproc. Its not uptime for each statproc, its uptime combined.

Jadespirit uptime for me is somewhat at low 25% percent, so the uptimes of both are comparable, with a little higher end on Windsong.

Too i am sure that 1650 int beats 1500 of random secondary stats in overall usefulness.