Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[Sealed Shut]

You're forgetting the keyword "directly". The test for self defense involves what had actually happened, not what might have happened. All that had happened is that they broke in. They weren't doing anything in particular beyond standing on top of a staircase when he shot them, though that's still arguably acceptable.

But then he went up to their face and shot them while they were helpless. That was not self defense; he had a duty to leave the basement rather than aggressively eliminate two lives.

Minnesota has a Castle Law which states: No duty to retreat before using deadly force to prevent a felony in one's place of abode; no duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense in one's place of abode

There are currently 30 states who have passed a Castle Law. Perhaps you should take your bleeding heart to one of the other 20.

[Spectral]

No, I'm just emphasizing that it's a problem in the US.
It's exactly "because of the cultural differences", but then excuse me, then there's a problem with your culture, if you think it's okay to shoot everyone who enters your property.

I surely don't, and neither do most Americans. Some states have these laws, but the majority of our most densely populated states do not. Looking for the absolute worst things that happen in a nation of 300 million people will result in you finding some awful things. We have many individual states, even cities, that are larger than your entire country. Yes, you'll find that some are quite bad, others are quite good. Comparing the US to Denmark is about as useful as comparing one block of one city to an entire state elsewhere; that is to say, it's completely pointless.

I guess it's not entirely pointless. If you're just looking for a self serving way to pat your nation on the back for being so much better than those barbaric Americans, you can do that.

[Gavril]

Stupid tho.... Race plays no role whatsoever. Had it been 2 black ppl, the uproar could have been even louder. Again. Race makes no difference.

Actually it does quite a bit to the point studies are done on it in terms of media coverage.

[semaphore]

"When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs" no hint whatsoever to considerable heights, you simply made up a fact.

He was in a basement. She fell down the stairs - into the basement.

[Kasierith]

Semaphore sure makes a lot of assumptions. Has 0 legal knowledge to boot.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum...s-self-defense

Very similar situation in terms of the execution mechanic. First degree murder.

[Garkanh]

It's the most common hunting weapon.



Cool. I'm sure this is based on a large amount of personal experience and travel rather than stereotypes and cherry picked anecdotes.

1) i believe a hunting rifle is a lot more common that a shotgun
1.b) And you should need a special license and a break-safe box for your rifle like in all Scandinavian country's.

2) No, i simply read people on this werry focus, claiming that EXECUTING two teenagers is 100% okay, but it is not, it should never be.
2.b) it should never be legal for the average civilian to own a gun, and only people with a special license and reason should be allowed (as police officers, security guards and so on.) and they should again, be kept in a break-safe box whenever the person was not on duty. Everything ells is just madness.


Some people seem to think they till live in the Wild West with cowboys and outlaws being a daily threat. Well, guess what, it's not, now get back to reallity.

can only hope Obama do something about that Gun law. I'm willing to bet my balls that it would reduce the crime rate and unnatural death in America with atleast 30-40%

[Doctor Amadeus]

Oh no! The poor man with the gu.. with the two guns! I forgot that after his rifle jammed, he went and grabbed his pistol to kill her with.

And in what sad, twisted universe is a girl down with several bullet holes in her a reasonable thread by any standard?

Again, that was his account, not for sure what happened, maybe he cowered in the corner and pissed himself, and he shot them both dead because they laughed at him.

I mean if the guy has a thirst for wondering around killing people, well then this should be a slam dunk case, obviously going to be a lot of dead kids in that basement, maybe that's what really happened, they came looking for someone they knew from high school to go play Pac Man at the Local Arcade, the door was opened a crack they went to check to see what the noise was coming from the basement and they saw him burying their friend.


They broke in, he feared for his life, and killed them both, sounds pretty logical to me.

[Alkin]

If you agree that what the homeowner did was reasonable, you need to seek help immediately. When I read things like this I'm so glad i don't live in the US.

[Kasierith]

Minnesota has a Castle Law which states: No duty to retreat before using deadly force to prevent a felony in one's place of abode; no duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense in one's place of abode

There are currently 30 states who have passed a Castle Law. Perhaps you should take your bleeding heart to one of the other 20.

I noticed you ignored the fact that there are four cases of legal precedence in the state where duty to retreat was upheld even in the home.

[Reluctant]

Shooting themm at first was completly fine, they broke into his house they deserved getting shot. However he should have caled the cops after they where down and not finished themm off at a point at which the wheren't a tread annymore.

The man probaly wasn't thinking clear at that point and i can understand why he did what he did. But it was wrong.

[Moadar]

And in what sad, twisted universe is a girl down with several bullet holes in her a reasonable thread by any standard?

More evidence that he wasn't in the right state of mind. Guy has been victimized multiple times in the past and now has been pushed to taking two lives. He was in an extremely fragile mental state and needs help. Everyone here baying for the blood of a 64 year old man whos life is now ruined no matter what happens should really take a hard look at themselves.

Only good out come here is this guy gets some mental help (jail isn't the correction option) and can go back to being a functioning member of society.

[Terahertz]

Tbh the girl was pretty freaking stupid to laugh at someone with a gun. That's just plain stupid. They also shouldn't of been in his home AT ALL.

I think all three people are (were) simply guilty. The stupid, idiotic teens shouldn't of robbed somebody his house and laugh at somebody at gunpoint, while the stupid, idiotic guy shouldn't of killed them after they were disabled.

More evidence that he wasn't in the right state of mind. Guy has been victimized multiple times in the past and now has been pushed to taking two lives. He was in an extremely fragile mental state and needs help. Everyone here baying for the blood of a 64 year old man whos life is now ruined no matter what happens should really take a hard look at themselves.

Only good out come here is this guy gets some mental help (jail isn't the correction option) and can go back to being a functioning member of society.

I didn't know this, but I also think people are being too harsh on the 64 yr old guy. He had all the right to shoot them at first sight, and he probably became scared after the girl came downstairs (which was another stupid move by the girl -.-).

[Spectral]

1) i believe a hunting rifle is a lot more common that a shotgun

Shotguns are the most commonly used weapon for small game; in the case of deer, there are separate seasons for different weapons.

1.b) And you should need a special license and a break-safe box for your rifle like in all Scandinavian country's.

2) No, i simply read people on this werry focus, claiming that EXECUTING two teenagers is 100% okay, but it is not, it should never be.
2.b) it should never be legal for the average civilian to own a gun, and only people with a special license and reason should be allowed (as police officers, security guards and so on.) and they should again, be kept in a break-safe box whenever the person was not on duty. Everything ells is just madness.


Some people seem to think they till live in the Wild West with cowboys and outlaws being a daily threat. Well, guess what, it's not, now get back to reallity.

can only hope Obama do something about that Gun law. I'm willing to bet my balls that it would reduce the crime rate and unnatural death in America with atleast 30-40%

You seem to be as ignorant about American law and what can be done as I am about Scandinavian laws.

[Doctor Amadeus]

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum...s-self-defense

Very similar situation in terms of the execution mechanic. First degree murder.

Not even remotely close, that was NOT his personal property, that was a business, a place where the public is invited to go for good or ill, and he executed someone where he clearly had other options and there was a Camera to prove that, NOT THE SAME AT ALL, and he got convicted rightly so.

[semaphore]

Minnesota has a Castle Law which states: No duty to retreat before using deadly force to prevent a felony in one's place of abode; no duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense in one's place of abode

Cite me the chapter, section and paragraph of the actual Minnesota statute.

[Wildtree]

When you are 64 and home alone a 2 people try to rob you after breaking in please be sure to check that they are unarmed, or maybe even just ask them if they are unarmed before protecting yourself.....................................................................

You must be pretty young, are you?
Just like some other statements here classifying a 64 years old as an elderly person.
Grow up kids.... 64 doesn't make a person disabled and barely able to handle their things anymore.
I know many of that age that perform very well in their daily lives. They work, they fulfill their marital duties in the bedroom and what not.

[Kasierith]

Again, that was his account, not for sure what happened, maybe he cowered in the corner and pissed himself, and he shot them both dead because they laughed at him.

I mean if the guy has a thirst for wondering around killing people, well then this should be a slam dunk case, obviously going to be a lot of dead kids in that basement, maybe that's what really happened, they came looking for someone they knew from high school to go play Pac Man at the Local Arcade, the door was opened a crack they went to check to see what the noise was coming from the basement and they saw him burying their friend.


They broke in, he feared for his life, and killed them both, sounds pretty logical to me.

Than you truly need to reevaluate your sense of logic. From what I can see, although I could speculate otherwise, the murder of the boy was justifiable. The initial shooting of the girl was... tentative, but defensible. The execution and premeditated shooting of the girl was not.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 03:00 PM ----------

Not even remotely close, that was NOT his personal property, that was a business, a place where the public is invited to go for good or ill, and he executed someone where he clearly had other options and there was a Camera to prove that, NOT THE SAME AT ALL, and he got convicted rightly so.

The laws in the state permitted his initial shooting of the person, even though it was in his place of business. The conviction came from the execution, not putting the person down to begin with. You're taking a very subjective interpretation of that article.

[larrakeyah]

Yes I have 0 legal knowledge because I know that pushing a gun below somebody's who is already shot multiple times, and has been defenselessly dragged across the room, in order to finish her off "cleanly" is murder... as opposed to self defense against the terrible attack of blood stains.

Of course you have 0 knowledge: Mall Security, Gniral, ad666, Horkymon... have mercilessly demolished your pseudo-moral, legally absurd arguments.

PS It's not murder. Own house, old man, drug addicted young intruders, provocations... difficult, very difficult, nearly impossible for the prosecution to succeed on murder charges.

[dd614]

Drud-addled youth try and rob an old man's home over the holidays and are made good. I can't tell you how many criminals getting 3 hots and a cot in jail deserve what these 2 got instead of living off our tax dollars. But yeah, they're "good students" and great kids I'm sure. Kudos to this guy for finishing these future psychopaths off.

All that said, guaranteed he gets a murder conviction because some liberal judge and jury will make him pay.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You made no relevant points there.

He did , but you are unable to chain together logic or reason so, i am sure it was missed on you.