requiring PvP to do a pve quest chain is beyond retarded.

[Riptide]

Besides the fact that isn't true, WoW is a PvE game. It should follow that PvE tends to permeate all aspects of the game, as much as I prefer keeping PvPers in their corner as much as possible.

PvP'rs have to PvE for a Weapon in MoP. Trinkets and weapons in previous expansions. Besides 10 wins is nothing, I wish they would have made it require rated bgs.

[Elysara]

It's one game. You play the game. There's stuff in the game that requires you to do other stuff. That's how it works.

Stop using this cop out. They are FORCING people into doing PvP, Now I know what I sound like but hear me out for a minute...

More often than not people pick what they want to focus on in the game. Wether they want to be that "Supa pro 1337" rogue in arena, Or a fully heroic BiS geared Tank,DPS or Healer. They pick PvP or PvE and stick with that side of the game, Sometimes dabbling in the other just for fun.

Now imagine someone on the PvE side of the game. They are a healer on the main raid team for the guild and let's say they don't like PvP and have never really touched it. Well, thanks to the legendary quest now this main raid team healer who DESPIES PvP is now forced into doing 10 battlegrounds against their will, And let's not even star the discussion of if their battlegroup sucks and wins every other 15 battlegrounds.

ONTOP of that, They are forcing people to PvP because of the MASSIVE amount of botting that is going on with PvP right now. I have heard the 'horror' stories of being the only human on your team, Or the ENTIRE enemy team being 100% bots.

[SherbertLand]

If you haven't done PVP in 3 years, then you have ZERO clue of the current state of PVP. It's different, and why should you feel entitled to get something without it? You get the whole lot of content you wanted. Want to get a "bonus"? Go do a few BGs. It's like watching 12 year olds told they have to do some chores to get dessert, and complaining that they only like playing computer games, why can't they have a dessert for that?

Him having zero clue about what pvp is like should be obvious enough of the shitstorm pvp is going to descend to now that they're forcing people to work within a system they don't want to. Not only are people like you going to be complaining about all the bots and upgrading your hear, but you're going to have a whole new demographic of afkers to contend with.

[Tucci]

Lol 10 wins...if you click and keyboard turn then maybe I can see why you're complaining. The solution is being good at your class so it's actually fun to pvp. I wish Blizzard forced more people to engage in some pvp so they learn to play their class. People complain WAY too much nowadays. The only thing I wish they would REALLY focus on is class balance.

[Deleted]

PvE people whining about 10 battleground wins makes me sad We had to wear pve gear in arena to be competitive since TBC and you complain about 10 battlegrounds.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Stop using this cop out. They are FORCING people into doing PvP, Now I know what I sound like but hear me out for a minute...

They're not forcing you to do anything. You don't have to complete the legendary quest chain. You feel obligated to do it if you raid, but you are in no way forced to do it. There's miles of difference between personal feelings of obligation and being forced to.

[BananaHandsB]

Getting tier 2 pvp weapons should require 25 sigils of power and 25 sigils of wisdom and 450 tokens of good fortune.

LOL. The only equivalent would be 10 random heroics, not all the crap you listed. Those are the BGs of the PVE world.

[romara]

I have two characters, a pve rogue and a pvp hunter.

Needless to say pvping on a rogue is ridiculously stupid, while hunters are mostly bottom of the barrel on dps. So now to get my rogue's legendary questline continued I have to do pvp while wearing crap blue pvp gear and my pvp geared hunter who doesn't care about sha gems has nothing to benefit from the new faction.

Oh boy such good game design! At the very least they should've informed us of this before MoP

It's almost as stupid as making PvE players do PvP to get a trinket for Archimonde...

[Tucci]

PvE rogues had no trouble getting their legendary daggers and killing fully pvp geared warriors in cheap shot XD

[SherbertLand]

I can't wait to see all the tears from the pvpers. That will be truly priceless.

[IxilaFA]

They're not forcing you to do anything. You don't have to complete the legendary quest chain. You feel obligated to do it if you raid, but you are in no way forced to do it. There's miles of difference between personal feelings of obligation and being forced to.

No, there is no "feeling obligated" when you're in a dedicated PvE guilds. If you don't get the Legendary, they'll boot you out and replace you with someone else. Feeling obligated implies that there is some choice involved, and someone is making you follow their solution, even though you can't see the merit. There is no question of choice with the Legendaries. They are obviously going to be a clear cut upgrade to anything else you can get in that slot. It's not obligation to get the Legendary, it's pure stupidity to ignore it.

I can instantly see your next reply: "Well then go join a guild that better fits with your ideals." I raid with a bunch of my friends who I enjoy spending time with, but we also enjoy progressing. If I tell them "Nah, I'm not going to get this amazing Legendary weapon because I can't stand PvP" they will pressure me and threaten my spot because it would be stupid of me to ignore an obvious upgrade just because I don't want to do BGs. This isn't like doing LFR, where it drops sub-optimal gear that you don't need to progress. A lot of Legendaries make progression ridiculously easy (especially when the whole raid is decked out with them) and any guild worth its salt will laugh at you to no end if you decide to forgo that upgrade.

So yes, we are being forced to PvP. Is it necessarily a bad thing? I'm not saying it is until I get a better idea of what's required. But you can't ignore that people are literally being forced to PvP if they want to complete this quest chain (and quest chains have, by definition, been PvE content since WoW came out).

Lol 10 wins...if you click and keyboard turn then maybe I can see why you're complaining. The solution is being good at your class so it's actually fun to pvp. I wish Blizzard forced more people to engage in some pvp so they learn to play their class. People complain WAY too much nowadays. The only thing I wish they would REALLY focus on is class balance.

Um, I don't click or keyboard turn and I know my class pretty damn well...for PvE. I have no desire to play it or learn it in PvP. That's where these complaints are coming from. It's not that we are discrediting PvP, we just don't want to do it for PvE rewards.

For ages PvP players have complained to no end about having to do PvE for gear that is worthwhile in Arena / Battlegrounds. Why is Blizzard suddenly reversing the dynamic, and why are PvE players not allowed to voice their dissent when it happens?

If you haven't done PVP in 3 years, then you have ZERO clue of the current state of PVP. It's different, and why should you feel entitled to get something without it? You get the whole lot of content you wanted. Want to get a "bonus"? Go do a few BGs. It's like watching 12 year olds told they have to do some chores to get dessert, and complaining that they only like playing computer games, why can't they have a dessert for that?

You're right, I have no idea of the current state of PvP. Do you know why? Because I don't like to PvP. Period. End of story.

But now I am being forced to do something that I do not like, which I have tried my hardest to ignore exists, which I have never been forced to do in order to remain competitive or keep up with my guild, for this damn Legendary. Your analogy is ridiculous. Legendaries aren't a bonus. We're not children. I'm an adult, if I want dessert I'll get in my car and go to the damn Cold Stone and buy some dessert. I shouldn't be forced to do something I don't want to do in a video game that I play solely for fun.

Imagine if you bought a First Person Shooter because it had an awesome storyline, and then halfway through the campaign it said you had to hook up to the internet and complete the next scenario with 10 random people you've never met. The game wouldn't be as much fun then, would it?

[stumpy]

That's fine, but why does forcing people to afk in battlegrounds constitute 'work' in this case?

PvE and PvP need to be as segregated as possible.

They're not being "forced" to afk in BGs anymore than the people who afk in BGs for actual PvP gear are being "forced" to do so.

He could always, you know, contribute. He might even help turn the tide of a couple of matches.

The learned helplessness in the WoW community is astounding. "Oh no, PvP is scary, so if I find myself in a PvP situation I will strive to be as terrible and useless at it as possible."

[Justignoreme]

it's a flippin BG, just tab out while the bots do all the work -.-

not like it says "u must finish this arena season as a duelist or better"

[Deleted]

Um, I don't click or keyboard turn and I know my class pretty damn well...for PvE. I have no desire to play it or learn it in PvP. That's where these complaints are coming from. It's not that we are discrediting PvP, we just don't want to do it for PvE rewards.

For ages PvP players have complained to no end about having to do PvE for gear that is worthwhile in Arena / Battlegrounds. Why is Blizzard suddenly reversing the dynamic, and why are PvE players not allowed to voice their dissent when it happens?

Because its 10 battlegrounds and you are fully done versus pvp'ers having to do pve for over 5 years, not to mention raiders where screwing over people for whole vanilla.

[Decimation2g]

PVE/PVP. All parts of the same machine.

Getting people to branch out and perhaps try aspects of the game they don't typically play, what a crime

[SherbertLand]

PVE/PVP. All parts of the same machine.

Getting people to branch out and perhaps try aspects of the game they don't typically play, what a crime

You mean getting people to branch out and afk in different areas? Bad things happen when people do things they don't want to do.

[stumpy]

Imagine if you bought a First Person Shooter because it had an awesome storyline, and then halfway through the campaign it said you had to hook up to the internet and complete the next scenario with 10 random people you've never met. The game wouldn't be as much fun then, would it?

Is it a first-person online game with thousands of other people playing concurrently at any given moment?

[IxilaFA]

Because its 10 battlegrounds and you are fully done versus pvp'ers having to do pve for over 5 years.

Be that as it may, this sets a terrible precedent. If Blizzard creates a PvP quest in the middle of a PvE chain and they find high completion rates, they could see that as the go-ahead to insert other PvP-related quests into PvE areas. Want to level your character to lv95? Well first you're going to have to kill 6 boars, collect 10 crates of meat, and kill 5 other players in World PvP. Hey, you're not being forced to do it, it will just make leveling easier, right?

PVE/PVP. All parts of the same machine.

Getting people to branch out and perhaps try aspects of the game they don't typically play, what a crime

PvE and PvP are not parts of the same machine. Blizzard has spent ages trying to separate the game as much as possible. I can't roll into an Arena with my Mistweaver monk and play the same way I do in a raid, now can I?

I understand they want people to branch out. I also understand that Pandaria is supposed to be about war. But I don't think PvP should be the only option to finishing this quest. It should be something like "Win 10 Battlegrounds or kill 50 Invading Horde NPCs at the beach."

Is it a first-person online game with thousands of other people playing concurrently at any given moment?

I see what you're trying to do here, but your logic is severely flawed. Whether a thousand people are playing at the same time are irrelevant, my initial point was that interrupting one's game with another completely game is a ridiculous way to go about treating your players; and like it or not, PvP and PvE are two entirely different games with different strategies, settings, and mechanics.

[Elysara]

They're not forcing you to do anything. You don't have to complete the legendary quest chain. You feel obligated to do it if you raid, but you are in no way forced to do it. There's miles of difference between personal feelings of obligation and being forced to.

How about you quote the rest of my post? Where I say that if you are a dedicated raider in your guild and are part of the main raid team? You ARE being forced into PvP, It is as simple as that. In a raiding guild would they rather have you with no Legendary weapon? Or someone that has a legendary weapon? Well, The choice is obvious.

In a raiding situation it is pure stupidity to ignore the legendary questline. It is flat-out dumb to ignore it. There is no "Personal feelings" because that would imply I have a CHOICE to PvP or not to complete the quest, and in this case I don't. They are forcing people into PvP because of the MASSIVE force of bots in BGs now.

They think shoving people into doing something they don't want to do will fix the botting problem, It won't. As soon as Raiders are done being forced to win 10 BG's...Which may be harder on some battlegroups than others. They will forget PvP ever existed after a heavy night of drinking.

[Solarshot]

Yeah assuming 50/50 win rate that's about 7-10 hours. for 3-4 minute ques and 15-30 minute games.

Holy fuck how does winning 2 bgs take 7-10 hours?