Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[Dubalicious]

Argument: People should have the right to adequately defend themselves, their family, and their property within the confines of the law.
Themius: Yeah ok, somebody tries to take the candy bar off your desk so you can just shoot them in the face, what is wrong with you people?!?

Argument: Many citizens, even children, have more training and experience with the use of handguns than the police/authorities. These people should NOT be forced to rely on police/authorities in situations where they can defend themselves.
Themius: Yeah ok, let's just have full on Vigilante warfare where families are like their own little army and they battle it out with other family armies to decide who is the best family army.

Seriously, you cray.

[Artravus]

He probably should have just stopped them and called the cops rather than going all out and killing them if he had a choice, but on the other hand the little fuckers shouldn't have tried robbing a fucking home. Both sides were in the wrong, the kids more so in my opinion. It seems that this wasn't even a one-off, they were chronic burglars. Also, $2 million bail!? The fuck? That seems a bit biased to me.

Here are some interesting quotes from the article: "They were just great people" Because great people rob homes on THANKSGIVING.

"It doesn't matter what they were or weren't doing there, they were kids" Yeah lets just let kids do whatever, that'll teach 'em a lesson.

[Kasierith]

Panic. It's the same reason that hid the bodies after the whole thing went down, he likely thought that everyone would side against him, whether or not he was in the right or not, and it seems that he was right. I'm not justifying all of his actions, yes he should have called the police and he shouldn't have gotten a second firearm, but he was still in the right for the rest of the time. Which again, I think should put him in prison for a few years at worst.

And it seems that he was right? The reaction is against the execution of the girl. Which did not happen until after he had left the scene, giving him ample time to, I don't know..... call the police and tell them there were two people in his house, both of whom he had already shot with a .22 rifle. If he had stopped there, than the reaction would be drastically different.

Panic does not cover this, not at all. He left the immediate scene and returned to kill her.

[kjcasey]

They had no right to be involved in felony home invasion and unfortunately they were killed

No, the kids weren't dangerous. They didn't have guns and they didn't show the will to harm another human being. If anything they only showed they were going to steal something. They didn't deserve to be shot dead.

Read through the thread. There are quite a few people advocating you can do ANYTHING to someone while they're in your home.

On a side note I wonder if people who advocate this man's actions are pro-life or pro-choice. You could argue that the womb is the woman's property that a fetus is invading, giving her the right to kill it if she wants.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

Yeah, killing someone and not caring about it is sociopathic. I'm fine with that, you'll be in the psych ward soon where you can't harm anyone. And guess what, since you're in their home, they can do whatever they want to you.

More unfounded rubbish.

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself though.

But you can go to bed knowing every night I'm still out there.

[kjcasey]

I agree apples and oranges. They were not stealing a candy bar off a desk

There's a lot of this going on in this thread, not just from Themius. The best thing to do is just not to respond...sadly it took me a while to catch on to that lol.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

1. The american law gives a person the right to defend his own property and life with any means.
2. There had been several breakins the last couple years, 6-8 that we know of.
3. He's an elderly person and probablly didn't have any other way to defend himself or his property.
4. They broke into the basement, probablly no lights on and the house owner reacted in fear for his life or property.
5. Who broke the fucking law? The criminals who broke into a home or the person who defended himself and his home?


Yes it's fucking sad and it's most likely that he didn't have to kill them or shoot them repeatedly, that said he didn't break the law they did. They could've chosen NOT to be criminals, THEY could've chosen NOT to be a threat to others, THEY could've chosen NOT to be dead.

[Annapolis]

As a 17 year old, my personal belief is that the vast majority of people aren't truly adults at 18. In light of the adults (or children's) actions make me believe further that they really aren't mature enough to be considered an adult, even if there are adults that act worse than they do. Plus, it's easier to refer to them both as children than, the other adult and the teenager.

People will differ developmentally obviously and I'd agree with you that most 18 year olds are making decisions that are childish sometimes. But, you have to draw the line somewhere because you can't keep allowing people a way out of their actions forever. Hitting 18 should hopefully be a wake-up call to a lot of people that they will be held more accountable for their actions from then on. Even some 17 year olds can be tried in count as adults.

[mortauk]

On a side note I wonder if people who advocate this man's actions are pro-life or pro-choice. You could argue that the womb is the woman's property that a fetus is invading, giving her the right to kill it if she wants.

Don't derail the thread stay on topic!

He had no idea they were kids or whether or not they were armed. He had every right to defend himself. Like I have already said since they made a mistake in breaking into the wrong house the only story we have to go on is his. I don't think I personally would "finish" a person off but if I shoot someone and they in any way make me feel threatened again they will be shot again. Its impossible to say what happened and we will never know the full truth. The statements he has made make me feel he is telling the truth at least what he perceives as the truth.

[Themius]

Panic. It's the same reason that hid the bodies after the whole thing went down, he likely thought that everyone would side against him, whether or not he was in the right or not, and it seems that he was right. I'm not justifying all of his actions, yes he should have called the police and he shouldn't have gotten a second firearm, but he was still in the right for the rest of the time. Which again, I think should put him in prison for a few years at worst.

If he was in so much panic why did he go about his day normally? Why did he show little remorse? Why did he seem to take relish in his clean kill? I mean that doesn't sound like a man in panic. It sounds like an angry man who lost control and didn't call the cops because he knew he was fucking off his head.

[SirRobin]

Alright, lets entertain that possibility.

Why did he spend the time to drag her across the floor? Why did he not call the police at all? Why did he leave the immediate scene to grab a second firearm, to return with the pistol to first severely wound and then kill the girl?

If he was so scared, why, when he had the time to leave the immediate scene to grab his second weapon, did he not call the police?

Well according to this one. He was "wearing" the revolver. So he didn't actually leave the scene. As far as dragging across the floor? He may have thought more were upstairs and wanted to get her out of sight like he did the one before her. Otherwise the potential more home invaders still upstairs might have come down guns blazing. If he thought she was laughing at him he may have thought she would signal "others."

As far as not calling police? Maybe there wasn't a phone downstairs so until he finally felt safe enough to come upstairs he could not call them. Who knows when or if shock set in leaving him in "out of touch" state.

[Mister K]

Complete and utter rubbish.

They deserved the "execution" ? really, cmon now.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

1. The american law gives a person the right to defend his own property and life with any means.
2. There had been several breakins the last couple years, 6-8 that we know of.
3. He's an elderly person and probablly didn't have any other way to defend himself or his property.
4. They broke into the basement, probablly no lights on and the house owner reacted in fear for his life or property.
5. Who broke the fucking law? The criminals who broke into a home or the person who defended himself and his home?


Yes it's fucking sad and it's most likely that he didn't have to kill them or shoot them repeatedly, that said he didn't break the law they did. They could've chosen NOT to be criminals, THEY could've chosen NOT to be a threat to others, THEY could've chosen NOT to be dead.

It's always a sad and sorry state of affairs where the criminals are treated better than the victims, as I have no doubt would have happened in the courts if either of those two shitbags were still alive.

[Deleted]

He should be jailed, of couse, but I'll shed no tears for the trash he ended.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

They deserved the "execution" ? really, cmon now.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Perhaps I'm just a believer in personal responsibility, and if you choose to break into another person's house, I don't feel bad for what happens to you.

[SirRobin]

Also... It was a basement, who knows how well lit or not it was. My basement has small glazed windows so its dark down there with the lights off. I sure as hell would not leave them on if I was down there trying to hide.

[Kraenen]

More unfounded rubbish.

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself though.

But you can go to bed knowing every night I'm still out there.

How is it unfounded? Please elevate your level of discussion, if you want to consider your argument a better one.

[Themius]

1. The american law gives a person the right to defend his own property and life with any means.
2. There had been several breakins the last couple years, 6-8 that we know of.
3. He's an elderly person and probablly didn't have any other way to defend himself or his property.
4. They broke into the basement, probablly no lights on and the house owner reacted in fear for his life or property.
5. Who broke the fucking law? The criminals who broke into a home or the person who defended himself and his home?


Yes it's fucking sad and it's most likely that he didn't have to kill them or shoot them repeatedly, that said he didn't break the law they did. They could've chosen NOT to be criminals, THEY could've chosen NOT to be a threat to others, THEY could've chosen NOT to be dead.

1- Yes, but it doesn't give one the right to incapacitate then murder.
2- Actually there is only evidence of ONE other.
3- Being elderly isn't a reason to go mad.
4- The owner may have been in fear of his life, but after he incapacitated one, then executed him, then incapacitated the other, then executed her. I find it highly unlikely that he was in fear that whole time.
5- Everyone broke the law. Breaking the law doesn't = kill!! What he should have done was call the cops and have the ambulances come, at that time the kids would have been saved and would have gone to jail and hopefully turned out better people.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

It sounds like an angry man who lost control and didn't call the cops because he knew he was fucking off his head.

Or because calling the cops has done fuck for him all the last 7 or 8 times this happened.

[Decagon]

He felt endangered after shooting up the girl and then dragged her over to her cousin and blown her brains out? He was endangered that whole time? Where do we draw the line lol?

Maybe not, but I'm not trying to completely justify it, I'm just saying I understand it, he obviously was in a state of panic and extreme anger (he was being tormented by these kids, don't forget that). Revenge is indeed a motivating factor and anyone who says they've never felt the need for revenge is lying. I don't think he should be abolished of all criminal suspect, just that murder is too harsh of a punishment for him.

Also people are you forgetting the fact he went about his day NORMALLY. Showed no remorse and he didn't even call the cops it was his neighbor that was suspicious of him. On top of this took relish in a clean kill. None of this points to. "Maybe that guy has issues.." in your lots heads?

Again, panic. He probably went about his day normally because he was terrified of what would happen next, he obviously wasn't thinking straight, he probably did have issues, he was frightened of his life for weeks before hand due to the multitude of break-ins on his property.

And it seems that he was right? The reaction is against the execution of the girl. Which did not happen until after he had left the scene, giving him ample time to, I don't know..... call the police and tell them there were two people in his house, both of whom he had already shot with a .22 rifle. If he had stopped there, than the reaction would be drastically different.

Panic does not cover this, not at all. He left the immediate scene and returned to kill her.

Panic, fear and revenge does cover this. Revenge most of all, which is why I don't think he should get off completely free with no charges, just that murder is much too serious of a punishment.