Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[SirRobin]

If he was in so much panic why did he go about his day normally? Why did he show little remorse? Why did he seem to take relish in his clean kill? I mean that doesn't sound like a man in panic. It sounds like an angry man who lost control and didn't call the cops because he knew he was fucking off his head.

Its called shock. Nor do I see "relish" anywhere.

[Kraenen]

Maybe. Maybe not.

Perhaps I'm just a believer in personal responsibility, and if you choose to break into another person's house, I don't feel bad for what happens to you.

Saying it has something to do with personal responsibility is out of place. What about the man's personal responsibility? Does he have no responsibility for who he shoots? Guess it's just "responsibility for you, freedom for me."

[Themius]

Maybe. Maybe not.

Perhaps I'm just a believer in personal responsibility, and if you choose to break into another person's house, I don't feel bad for what happens to you.

So if he captured, raped, tortured the girl to death. You would be like "oh well you broke into his house" ?

[Kasierith]

Well according to this one. He was "wearing" the revolver. So he didn't actually leave the scene. As far as dragging across the floor? He may have thought more were upstairs and wanted to get her out of sight like he did the one before her. Otherwise the potential more home invaders still upstairs might have come down guns blazing. If he thought she was laughing at him he may have thought she would signal "others."

As far as not calling police? Maybe there wasn't a phone downstairs so until he finally felt safe enough to come upstairs he could not call them. Who knows when or if shock set in leaving him in "out of touch" state.

When did he say he was afraid there were others? He said he was afraid at the time that they were armed, but made no mention of other people. Also, please point out the justification for this part?

"The complaint says Smith then grabbed a .22 revolver he was wearing and shot Kifer several times in the chest, "more shots than I needed to," he reportedly told detectives. He then dragged her body into his workshop where he had also placed Schaeffel.

At that point, Smith told investigators, Kifer was still gasping for breath so he put the handgun under her chin and fired a bullet into her head, describing it as "a good clean finishing shot.""

She wasn't dead yet, so he killed her.

[kjcasey]

He did not commit murder. some sort of manslaughter maybe.

[Themius]

Its called shock. Nor do I see "relish" anywhere.

typically include an initial state of "daze", with some constriction of the field of consciousness and narrowing of attention, inability to comprehend stimuli, and disorientation.

This state may be quickly followed by either further withdrawal from the surrounding situation (to the extent of a dissociative stupor), or by agitation and overactivity, anxiety, impaired judgement, confusion, detachment, and depression.

He killed them, went about his day normally, didn't call the cops. Seemed to lack remorse and take relish in a kill. How is this shock? Sounds more like a sociopath. Stop making excuses for a fucking savage.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

How is it unfounded? Please elevate your level of discussion, if you want to consider your argument a better one.

Well, ok then.

I suppose it's unfounded because I have not ever, nor will be, ever institutionalized. Fact. Locked.

You're just captaining the USS Makeshitup.

All this ill-willing towards another person who's done nothing wrong on your part though, hoping I would be locked up. I'd argue that's a touch more sociopathic than me not giving a shit two shitheads ate it breaking into some old man's home.

[Kasierith]

He did not commit murder. some sort of manslaughter maybe.

Legal precedent disagrees with you. Unless I missed a post, you never countered the article that I linked you.

[Themius]

He did not commit murder. some sort of manslaughter maybe.

It would have been manslaughter if he just kept shooting after she was down. It became murder when he shot, his gun jammed, so he GOT ANOTHER, dragged her over to her cousin, shot her in the head. That's not manslaughter.

[Mister K]

Its called shock. Nor do I see "relish" anywhere.

Shock, to drag them downstairs and blow their brains out, HA! Assuming that's what happened. If he shot them while they were running or what not but a second shot, really come on now.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

So if he captured, raped, tortured the girl to death. You would be like "oh well you broke into his house" ?

I suppose I'd be indifferent, yes.

It would be her own fault, she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[Decagon]

People will differ developmentally obviously and I'd agree with you that most 18 year olds are making decisions that are childish sometimes. But, you have to draw the line somewhere because you can't keep allowing people a way out of their actions forever. Hitting 18 should hopefully be a wake-up call to a lot of people that they will be held more accountable for their actions from then on. Even some 17 year olds can be tried in count as adults.

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I was talking about physically, mentally, and emotionally, not legally. Still, even tried as adults, people should be given more help than punishment, because maybe then they can recover.

If he was in so much panic why did he go about his day normally? Why did he show little remorse? Why did he seem to take relish in his clean kill? I mean that doesn't sound like a man in panic. It sounds like an angry man who lost control and didn't call the cops because he knew he was fucking off his head.

That's what I'm saying, he went about his day normally because he was in a state of panic and shock, he didn't have any idea what to do, he knew people would side on the kids, and he just couldn't decide what to do, so he tried to go about his day. Just because he went about his day "normally" doesn't mean that he wasn't terrified and in extreme shock and contemplating what to do. He did lose control, as would most people, which again, is why he didn't do anything, he didn't want to be seen as the antagonist whether or not he was. Again, I don't think that that quote is necessarily completely in context, and even if it was, it was probably just an attempt to justify his actions to himself, because he likely felt terrible.

Also... It was a basement, who knows how well lit or not it was. My basement has small glazed windows so its dark down there with the lights off. I sure as hell would not leave them on if I was down there trying to hide.

I didn't even think of that.

[Themius]

Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion

After he shot her, changed guns (so he could continue shooting her), then dragged her, and executed her. He no longer is in "the head of passion"

[SirRobin]

When did he say he was afraid there were others? He said he was afraid at the time that they were armed, but made no mention of other people. Also, please point out the justification for this part?

"The complaint says Smith then grabbed a .22 revolver he was wearing and shot Kifer several times in the chest, "more shots than I needed to," he reportedly told detectives. He then dragged her body into his workshop where he had also placed Schaeffel.

At that point, Smith told investigators, Kifer was still gasping for breath so he put the handgun under her chin and fired a bullet into her head, describing it as "a good clean finishing shot.""

She wasn't dead yet, so he killed her.

As far as what he's told police? Well that's where the "shock" part comes in. It can set in quickly and last for a couple of days. He may not be remembering clearly. Let's not forget police officers tendency to, how shall we say, "lead" suspects during questioning? I don't see anything about an attorney being present during questioning. Nor how long it lasted. For an old man who has just been through a traumatic experience? I suspect there are a lot more details that will come out as he mentally recovers.

[Razorlor]

On a side note I wonder if people who advocate this man's actions are pro-life or pro-choice. You could argue that the womb is the woman's property that a fetus is invading, giving her the right to kill it if she wants.

Yes, because letting a man plow you is equivalent to two people making a conscious decision to invade on your property uninvited with the intent of stealing something.

[Themius]

I suppose I'd be indifferent, yes.

It would be her own fault, she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So let's get this clear right now.

Woman breaks into mans house. Man captures woman, ties her up, locks her in basement, rapes her repeatedly, then tortures her to death. You'd be like "whatever she shouldn't have broken into the house"

Wow people like you are a real problem.

[SirRobin]

Shock, to drag them downstairs and blow their brains out, HA! Assuming that's what happened. If he shot them while they were running or what not but a second shot, really come on now.

From what I've read they were coming downstairs. Not dragged downstairs.

[Decagon]

When did he say he was afraid there were others? He said he was afraid at the time that they were armed, but made no mention of other people. Also, please point out the justification for this part?

"The complaint says Smith then grabbed a .22 revolver he was wearing and shot Kifer several times in the chest, "more shots than I needed to," he reportedly told detectives. He then dragged her body into his workshop where he had also placed Schaeffel.

At that point, Smith told investigators, Kifer was still gasping for breath so he put the handgun under her chin and fired a bullet into her head, describing it as "a good clean finishing shot.""

She wasn't dead yet, so he killed her.

It was likely a mercy shot. We can't know for certain so it would be best if we just leave the detail out or just assume one or the other happened, not argue which happened.

He killed them, went about his day normally, didn't call the cops. Seemed to lack remorse and take relish in a kill. How is this shock? Sounds more like a sociopath. Stop making excuses for a fucking savage.

I don't think you understand what shock can do to you.

Shock, to drag them downstairs and blow their brains out, HA! Assuming that's what happened. If he shot them while they were running or what not but a second shot, really come on now.

This is not the part we're justifying with shock. In fact, most of us are saying this is where he was wrong and should be convicted of something (something less than murder, like manslaughter).

[Kraenen]

Well, ok then.

I suppose it's unfounded because I have not ever, nor will be, ever institutionalized. Fact. Locked.

You're just captaining the USS Makeshitup.

All this ill-willing towards another person who's done nothing wrong on your part though, hoping I would be locked up. I'd argue that's a touch more sociopathic than me not giving a shit two shitheads ate it breaking into some old man's home.

Come on...you think I'm more of a sociopath than you when you don't give a shit when people are killed? "captaining the USS Makeshitup" LOL

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

So let's get this clear right now.

Woman breaks into mans house. Man captures woman, ties her up, locks her in basement, rapes her repeatedly, then tortures her to death. You'd be like "whatever she shouldn't have broken into the house"

Wow people like you are a real problem.

Breaking into a house can't be all free TVs.

Can you imagine such a thing?

Everywhere would be just lousy with shitheads.