Bot, a natural response to game design flaws?

[Granyala]

Bot, a natural response to game design flaws?

No. Bots are a natural result of human laziness. There's always something you do not like and most of us will try to find ways around the things we dislike.

But Yes: Excessive grinding requirements encourage the use of bots. But WoW has no grinds I would call "excessive". At least, not anymore.

[Zoneseek]

Excessive botting exposes parts of the game that are horribly boring. For example, people bot the honor grind because its REALLY boring. Its the same old BG's that have been in the game for 7+ years now. Yes, you can play the new ones, but after a few dozen times they go into the same pool. PvP is fun when its on your terms, when its forced because you need the gear to compete, that's when botting starts to look good.

I know people that bot, and they're all pvpers that have no interest in anything in the game outside of competitive pvp. THey have no interest in running around in AV killing npc's. They have no interest in struggling through a WSG pug full of people fighting in the middle for no reason. They just want to do high level arena and RBG. But to get there, they need honor gear. Therefore, bot.

[jimlow]

I think its a different mentality, so rather then go onto forums and bitch about how they dislike the way the game is going and start another thread "because of X now I'm going to quit". They say fuck it nobody cares about my opinion and I care nothing about this community. I'll just start botting and if my account gets caught and gets permabaned who cares I was gonna quit anyways.

Its not like if you get permabaned on a account you can't just create another one, with the same credit card info no less.

[yjmark]

Excessive botting exposes parts of the game that are horribly boring. For example, people bot the honor grind because its REALLY boring. Its the same old BG's that have been in the game for 7+ years now. Yes, you can play the new ones, but after a few dozen times they go into the same pool. PvP is fun when its on your terms, when its forced because you need the gear to compete, that's when botting starts to look good.

I know people that bot, and they're all pvpers that have no interest in anything in the game outside of competitive pvp. THey have no interest in running around in AV killing npc's. They have no interest in struggling through a WSG pug full of people fighting in the middle for no reason. They just want to do high level arena and RBG. But to get there, they need honor gear. Therefore, bot.

And there are people that bot to level because they don't like it. Does that mean leveling should be removed from the game?

And there are people that bot to gather mats. Does that mean that mat gathering should be removed from the game?

Just because people bot, that does not mean it's a problem with the game. It's a problem with the people who bot. They don't want to put the effort/work in to accomplish things. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter.

[Zoneseek]

And there are people that bot to level because they don't like it. Does that mean leveling should be removed from the game?

And there are people that bot to gather mats. Does that mean that mat gathering should be removed from the game?

Just because people bot, that does not mean it's a problem with the game. It's a problem with the people who bot. They don't want to put the effort/work in to accomplish things. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter.

Nope, its because that stuff is boring It if wasn't boring, people wouldn't bot it. (The exception would be anything that produces in-game items/currencies that can be sold for real money, that kind of thing will always be botted)

They say fuck it nobody cares about my opinion and I care nothing about this community. I'll just start botting and if my account gets caught and gets permabaned who cares I was gonna quit anyways.

Exactly. There's nothing to lose.

Make the content fun instead of boring, and people will be less likely to bot it.

[Drakesong]

And there are people that bot to level because they don't like it. Does that mean leveling should be removed from the game?

And there are people that bot to gather mats. Does that mean that mat gathering should be removed from the game?

Just because people bot, that does not mean it's a problem with the game. It's a problem with the people who bot. They don't want to put the effort/work in to accomplish things. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter.

If a huge amount of players start botting to level up (something that is not happening atm), than the problem may lie in the leveling process. For example, during Vanilla and TBC, leveling was painfull, a lot of time consumedi n traveling to different areas just to find a quest, and sometimes even just killing npcs to get XP. When this (boring) situatino was a reallity, I used to see much more bots around.

Gathering mats is a boring job in WoW, it shouldn't be removed, nor be more rewarding, but be more fun.

They don't want to put the effort/work in to accomplish things.

In here you tell us exactly where the problem lies, people don't want to spend their quality time "working".

The point of this post was to force people think about the bot problem, to ask themselves if Blizzard shouldn't be doing something more to solve this problem, other than banning botters (if they really ban). Don't you think that if the gaming experience was focused on being fun, rather than rewarding, people would "cheat" less and actually enjoy a game?

Think about it, what you you (players) do in World of Warcraft if there was fewer carrots in the sitick? Imagine WoW with no reputatino requirements, no gear that gets outdated every patch, would you still be aplying the game as much as you do? Would you play the game at all?

[yjmark]

Nope, its because that stuff is boring It if wasn't boring, people wouldn't bot it. (The exception would be anything that produces in-game items/currencies that can be sold for real money, that kind of thing will always be botted)

"Boring" is a subjective word. So because you find it boring, it should be changed? Even if someone else enjoys it?

[salamala]

botting is in my opion for lazy players or people who cant play that game in the first place.
either way its cheating too make up for someone incompetence

That's an interesting point. Be sure to tell all those botters how incompetent they are as they pass right by you in Gold, Mats, Honor.. whatever they want. I agree that it is cheating - but if there i no reprecussion, I'm not sure botters are the incompetant ones...

[yjmark]

The point of this post was to force people think about the bot problem, to ask themselves if Blizzard shouldn't be doing something more to solve this problem, other than banning botters (if they really ban). Don't you think that if the gaming experience was focused on being fun, rather than rewarding, people would "cheat" less and actually enjoy a game?

Like I said above - "fun" is subjective. The bot problem is lazy people, not bad game design.

And Blizz does address a lot of the issues that the players have.

No matter how the game is designed, there is always be botters. Always. People are always looking for ways to cut corners. Redesigning the game around people who want to cut corners is not a good way to spend resources. Players will find new corners to cut regardless of how you design a game.

[Banzhe]

Hello, I'm here to talk about the worst "problem" WoW players face today: Bots. This tool was very popular amongst PvPers, but today we can even see a few running heroics and even raids. Players from Europe and USA complain about this problem, and the appearant lack of action by Blizzard is making the problem worst. But, why do players use bots in the first place? Think about it, you are playing a game (an activity that occupies your mind, and makes you have fun), but instead, you put a machine to do that for you, illogical? Maybe not.

The gaming philosophy has changed. Back in time, games were designed to be fun and quick. Think about Mario Bros. you have a challenging enviroment, you have to overcome everything, otherwise you will have to start over again, and in the end, you finish the game. After that, there is little you can do, of course you can find secret levels, beat the game faster, but the game won't last many months, so you buy a new game.

So, what is your opinion?

Your first flaw is trying apply the logic of Mario to an mmo such as WoW, all up to Wrath WoW was near enough more grind then today's daily quest hubs with the mandatory enchant recipes locked behind them.., and the bots was still active in Bg's at that point, personally I think it has everything to do with random bg's being every man for himself type of action, and as such can't ever be fixed in this aspect because blizzard is in a mindset at times that's the complete opposite of they're subscribers!

In terms of PvE and bots, I can to some extend understand the people who use bots to keep a stock of consumables if they have a full time and family to tend to once they get home (or people with heavy studies), most it seems are however primarily focused on overloading the local ah to greed gold that they'll never get to spend anyway which is the primary problem imo when it comes to bots, however!;

The overshadowing issue remains in blizzards hands and they're inability to focus time on fixing the many problems that's piled up over the years, as the most recent example I take patch 5.1, mainly consisting of new quests and more dailies, with minor class changes that wasn't necessary to begin with.
The quests and dailies provide minor grind time to those who have little to nothing on a weekly schedule in the game, since no account numbers will ever be released by blizzard, we can only speculate or take they're word for the amount of people benefiting from these.., the minor class updates / changes is fixing nothing and are in 99% of the cases down to cosmetic spell changes or tool tip changes.

What they should do instead of rushing everything is realistically decide on one of they're meetings the amount of time it would take to do a complete overhaul on classes and balancing (in the extend it's possible to balance them given the game setup), and simply keep that time frame locked down as priority nr1, after that they can then look at what features etc etc they would like to put in the game.., and ensure that once they do release a patch, that's it's big enough to keep players occupied until the next, because once the class overhaul is done with, they will have a lot more time free with a metric ton less complaints, and guaranteed thousands of more happy customers!
In the aspect of above also focus much much more on mmo factors in the game instead of all this solo mode bullcrap they're putting in the game!

Eventually people will take much more joy in playing the game again, and some (not all) will fase out of using bots!

[dinouille]

8 years of wow, begin to bot yesterday

dayli are to boring, and i can't continue bg in that condition

so yyeah, starting boting, and don't realy care.


stuff > skill ( this is a probleme in pvp for me ) so, sorry but, yeah, boting is the only way for my keyboard to escape death after i died by a fucking noob that doesn't know nothing about the game but kill u in 1 sec cuz of his gear.

[Drakesong]

Like I said above - "fun" is subjective. The bot problem is lazy people, not bad game design.

You keep saying people are "lazy". Lazy is a term that refers to something that you have to do (for example, a job), rather than something that you enjoy doing it.

[Boomcats]

Ok so, most of us have jobs- we all work everyday to have cash so we can do the things we enjoy right? No, not always. Some of us enjoy the work we do, enjoy our daily tasks and look forward to our jobs. Others go to work just to earn money.

Both groups were given a choice "Have a robot take his/her place for the day, and you only reap the reward/do the after work activities.

Thats what botting is, I don't want to work really because I don't enjoy BG's/daily grinds/mat farming. I do enjoy : raiding (requires certain ilvl and gear to be good enough to raid) / Arena (you get stomped without basic BG grinded gear) / gold to buy vanity things (mat farming)

So I bot. I bot all the time, I write profiles for others to use, and my roommate has showed me how to make my bot perform DPS rotations better then a human. It's unfair to those who don't bot, but whatever - I'm not doing the grind and if I get banned I'll just play a game that doesnt require work to have fun (league of legends comes to mind)

But if you do enjoy the grind, doing the "work" thats fine, you should be allowed to enjoy it- but thats your OPINION.

[ngc2440]

You keep saying people are "lazy". Lazy is a term that refers to something that you have to do (for example, a job), rather than something that you enjoy doing it.

Wrong. Lazy is just Resistant to work or exertion; disposed to idleness. You can be lazy even with your hobbies.

I do wish everyone who bot got a perma-ban. Sure it wouldn't stop the more serious botters but it would certainly stop quite a few entitled people in their tracks.

[Phookah]

Yeah, people who use bots are really terrible human beings. How dare someone automate tedious and repetitive tasks? You're just being lazy and you should have to participate in unexciting artificial content grinds like the rest of us. What gives you the right to access enjoyable content without first putting in hours of hard work? Do you think this is a game? People who bot are clearly the idiots here.

The sad part is that even though you meant this all sarcastically, it's completely correct. Everyone else has to do some stuff that they don't find fun, and if you want the rewards that come from that you should have to do it too.
P.S If you think something isn't fun, then don't do it. Instead of cheating.

[Drakesong]

P.S If you think something isn't fun, then don't do it. Instead of cheating.

It's like saying to a smoker to stop smoking. WoW is addictive, and it was designed to be that way. The point of everything is: Is the bot's problem only player's fault?

[ngc2440]

It's like saying to a smoker to stop smoking. WoW is addictive, and it was designed to be that way. The point of everything is: Is the bot's problem only player's fault?

I will put it as simply as I can.

Yes.

[Drakesong]

Wrong. Lazy is just Resistant to work or exertion; disposed to idleness. You can be lazy even with your hobbies.

I do wish everyone who bot got a perma-ban. Sure it wouldn't stop the more serious botters but it would certainly stop quite a few entitled people in their tracks.

False. You feel the resistance to do something because it's not enjoyable. If you are lazy to do your hobbies on a regular basis, you should ask yourself if it's really a hobby in the first place, rather than an obligation you imposed on yourself.

[ngc2440]

False. You feel the resistance to do something because it's not enjoyable. If you are lazy to do your hobbies on a regular basis, you should ask yourself if it's really a hobby in the first place, rather than an obligation you imposed on yourself.

Aye you don't want to do something because it seems less enjoyable than what you want to do. Which is not what you said earlier. Stop flip flopping around.

[Drakesong]

I will put it as simply as I can.

Yes.

But not everything is as simple as you think. Take the "uban violence" for example, specially in a third world country, if someone robs you, the robber is guilty, yes of course, but the state is also responsible for unemployment, bad education, bad distribution of money, etc etc etc.

You can blame all on the "evil doer", but you must always think about the reallity in which the person is inserted.

Sure you can ban all the botters, but the game won't become more fun because of it, the problem will still persist, and Blizzard will have less subscriptions.