Saw this post on the forums

[Snuggli]

it's easy enough to dispel demon soul and instead of getting crit for 230k you get crit for 180k

I hate to be the one to tell you this but you can't dispel it anymore. :|

[Deleted]

5) Warriors are so OP that it feels back like S5. You honestly don't even have the right to complain about any class imo (even godmages)

Warriors were pretty shit in s5 iirc

[Deleted]

I hate to be the one to tell you this but you can't dispel it anymore. :|

Yeah it's good times. I completely forgot about that. Guess the aura nerf was too much to handle at one time, probably just a matter of time until icy veins, PoM, NS, etc. become undispellable as well. Which to be honest isn't bad design, they did it to wings and I thought it was a great change, but they need to tune how powerful said cooldowns are accordingly if they want to make it so they can't be dispelled else it's just silly.

[Gangresnake]

Mages and warlocks damage is insane right now and warriors (and other melee) are royally fucked.

Mages and warlocks got nerfed way harder than Warriors, which is still the best class.
Other melee are mediocre at worst, except feral, who is completely overpowered right now but didnt receive any nerf because he flew under the radar of Warrior/Mage.

Couldnt read the original bnet post, but if it implied that warriors have it hard right now I dont really miss it.

So I guess applying an undispellable 25% CoT + 20% physical damage reduced on everyone in the opposing team was fine with you.

You didnt read the hotfix : It's 10%
You used a strawman : You said that Demono didnt got nerfed, it was. He never said it was fine in the beginning.

PS : Putting Ret paladin as undertuned and Affli lock as balanced, this better be a joke

[Rawfury]

It always interesting to read all of these posts when your an elemental shaman.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

You're talking about chaos bolt as if a warlock should ever be able to land one. Warlocks arent bursty, destro isnt a "DoT class" and hasnt been ... oh I dont know.. ever?

How do you think I figured out the average crit on the Chaos Bolt, again? Three different Warlocks on three different BGs each critting for 164k. It's obvious they are hitting because as soon as they do it's 3 shots and a player is dead. You'll seeing players (especially tanks) with ***3*** HoTs on them plus direct heals, and they still will go down.

I went out to test out MoP BGs and all the fuss about Warriors and Warlocks...and it's true the level 90 BGs resemble the 10-80 battlegrounds with OP hunters. Five healers can't keep a team up with three locks and three Warriors as it's w-a-y too much pressure. The level 90 BGs resemble the chaos and stupidity seen on the lower level BGs where people claim "there's no balance at lower levels". Guess what? There's n-o-n-e at 90, either. -_-

[Assumi]

The only class that has ever oneshot anyone so far in arenas is a warrior with TFB-stacks.
No other classes has done this. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Such a pet peeve for me to see the word 1 shot thrown around so much.

Same with people saying they get "globaled" in 3 GCD-bound spells.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

So a warlock critting 164k, after a 3sec cast, which is nerfed now, is what you consider bursty and impossible for a healer to keep up?
Also, warlocks don't hit much higher then 27k besides chaosbolt, shadowburn and conflagrate, spells with a cooldown or an embercost that aren't spammable

It doesn't matter, the combination is what kills. Dispels are on a 8 sec CD now, so when the DoTs do hit and the Chaos Bolt -- even in upgraded CP gear -- the survival rate is very low.

Warlocks can hit for 27k with DoTs, but healer HoTs are half that. Do the math. -_-

Healers are suppose to be able to counter damage by direct healing. Too many healer counters are on lengthy CDs longer than that 3 sec I WIN cast.

It would've been more balanced if we had instant dispels again. That is how they "fixed" Warlocks, allowing them to DoT up as bad as DKs and limiting the dispels. It's the insanity of one class being so OP to the point of ridiculousness (like endless Mana Burn before) that makes PvP "balance" in WoW so stupid.

I need to have a reason to even be on a battleground, not watch in less than 5 seconds players simple drop dead even HoTTed and shielded. -_-

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 02:10 PM ----------

Soooo, got any truthful stories to tell?

Just did.

How about this for truth also: MLG doesn't include WoW in their ladders because there is zero sense of balance in WoW PvP. The BGs shows it in spades, while Blizzard tweaks the stats/mechanics around arenas and raids. The result is that clusterfuck seen in PvP for years.

[Deleted]

You didnt read the hotfix : It's 10%
You used a strawman : You said that Demono didnt got nerfed, it was. He never said it was fine in the beginning.

PS : Putting Ret paladin as undertuned and Affli lock as balanced, this better be a joke

I didn't, if it doesn't say chaos wave damage nerfed then it doesn't really interest me. Saw something about some other demo shit that people I know that play the class say it's more of a buff than it is a nerf anyway. Regardless, I wasn't referring to the debuff post-nerf, I was referring to it pre-nerf, and it wasn't 10% then.

I fail to see why the part about rets and affliction would be a joke. Have you faced a single ret paladin above 2400 or something recently? Because I haven't. Nor has anyone I know that still plays this game (for some out-wordly reason). Affliction is not even bad, I know couple locks who used to play it up until recently due to how filthy it feels to play demo but I guess you can't really compete with this.

[Gangresnake]

I didn't, if it doesn't say chaos wave damage nerfed then it doesn't really interest me. Saw something about some other demo shit that people I know that play the class say it's more of a buff than it is a nerf anyway. Regardless, I wasn't referring to the debuff post-nerf, I was referring to it pre-nerf, and it wasn't 10% then.

I fail to see why the part about rets and affliction would be a joke. Have you faced a single ret paladin above 2400 or something recently? Because I haven't. Nor has anyone I know that still plays this game (for some out-wordly reason). Affliction is not even bad, I know couple locks who used to play it up until recently due to how filthy it feels to play demo but I guess you can't really compete with this.

I dont see many Ret at 2k4, but I dont see many people at 2k4+ either, so I dont think it should be the breaking point to define what's viable and what's not, but I met plenty of Ret at 2k2+, if anything I think Ret were high tier before patch (And stats prove me right), dont know after patch

Affliction on the other hand is absolute garbage, worst than chamelem, no burst, no pressure, nothing, never seen a single afflock above 2k. Many people, like me, played it because that's what they wanted to play, then they decided that it would be better for everyone if they played a viable spec.

PS : Posting screenshot of people taking a full burst without blowing anything sure is relevant, as I said often demolock isnt a special snowflakes, everyone have completely retarded burst dmg, ret included

[Nicola]

It doesn't matter, the combination is what kills. Dispels are on a 8 sec CD now, so when the DoTs do hit and the Chaos Bolt -- even in upgraded CP gear -- the survival rate is very low.

Warlocks can hit for 27k with DoTs, but healer HoTs are half that. Do the math. -_-

Healers are suppose to be able to counter damage by direct healing. Too many healer counters are on lengthy CDs longer than that 3 sec I WIN cast.

It would've been more balanced if we had instant dispels again. That is how they "fixed" Warlocks, allowing them to DoT up as bad as DKs and limiting the dispels. It's the insanity of one class being so OP to the point of ridiculousness (like endless Mana Burn before) that makes PvP "balance" in WoW so stupid.

I need to have a reason to even be on a battleground, not watch in less than 5 seconds players simple drop dead even HoTTed and shielded. -_-

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 02:10 PM ----------



Just did.

How about this for truth also: MLG doesn't include WoW in their ladders because there is zero sense of balance in WoW PvP. The BGs shows it in spades, while Blizzard tweaks the stats/mechanics around arenas and raids. The result is that clusterfuck seen in PvP for years.

The only dot a warlock has that hits 27k+ in pvp is doom, which takes 15sec to tick before haste... You say hots do half of that, are you pvping naked or something?
If you get hit by a warlock for 150k+ by a cb and you ain't getting focused by other people and you claim to have problem with it, you deserve to die since it means you are bad. A 3sec cb with full cooldowns shouldn't be allowed to be cast. Sure it can happen the warlock gets 1 cast off but if you are taking several cb to the face, you should just quit the game.


Also, instant dispel was retarded, healing hardly took any skill during cata since you could just instantly dispel what most classes could trow on you and avoid a crapton of damage unless there was an affliction warlock.

And seeing how you talk about hots and shields, I assume you play as a disc priest and relying on keeping people alive with just renew and pw:shield. Not only are you playing one of the weakest healerspecs, you are not even playing it properly

[Deleted]

I guess you can't really compete with this.

For all we know that is in kotmogu with orbs or some other bg with berserker and all that.
Its pretty stupid to base an entire discussion on something we dont even now anything about.

I can do it too "i have 80% resilience and i got hit with 500k chaos wave omg nerf it blizz".
then i supply a very shady print screen with next to no backstory whatsoever.

fail

[Deleted]

fail

Go play arena and get hit by a couple chaos waves. 225k is what I got hit for with like 60% resilience, I don't really care whether you or anyone believes it or not and it's hardly even relevant, it's not just locks as Gangresnake said, it's mages and warriors as well, and other classes to a certain extent too (even rets, I guess, I wouldn't know because I've faced a grand total of one this season). I just don't like people implying I'm lying when I know for a fact it happens in a normal arena setting without any external buffs and shit.

[Assumi]

For all we know that is in kotmogu with orbs or some other bg with berserker and all that.
Its pretty stupid to base an entire discussion on something we dont even now anything about.

I can do it too "i have 80% resilience and i got hit with 500k chaos wave omg nerf it blizz".
then i supply a very shady print screen with next to no backstory whatsoever.

fail

I doesn't take a rocket scientist to find countless other cases of similar damage anywhere people discuss PvP, along with character gear and situation.

A 207k Chaos Wave happened at the China tournament, want to pretend those guys don't know how to play, were wearing PvE gear and were playing on Temple?

[Deleted]

I just tested this and you are completely right. Im sorry for implying it was a lie. I was hoping that it was bullshit.
I wonder when the next nerfbat to warlock will arrive because it sure as hell will

[NPSlow]

Same with people saying they get "globaled" in 3 GCD-bound spells.

If a frost bomb explodes at the same time a chaos wave and warrior fist lands I can see a person popping in the time it takes for them to use 1 gcd.

I mean I saw it happen with a mage and enhance (using stormblast) in a 2v3 the other day. Being global'd still happens, just not all from one person.

[Theholypally]

Go play arena and get hit by a couple chaos waves. 225k is what I got hit for with like 60% resilience, I don't really care whether you or anyone believes it or not and it's hardly even relevant, it's not just locks as Gangresnake said, it's mages and warriors as well, and other classes to a certain extent too (even rets, I guess, I wouldn't know because I've faced a grand total of one this season). I just don't like people implying I'm lying when I know for a fact it happens in a normal arena setting without any external buffs and shit.

Earlier today, just doing the pvp dailies in Karasang wilds or w.e i was hit by a warlock for 212k. I was already taking damage from other sources (players) so i wasnt at full health to begin with, i use animated health bars and when i was hit by that ability (i believe it was a chaos bolt, as i didnt see the animation for waves) i dropped and died. I had around 60% resil at the time.

Ive had multiple locks in BGs hit me for 180k+ with chaos bolts as well. To say its unheard of, or that its so easy to avoid, is just plain bullshit. Hell, even in arenas they arent that easy to avoid because they time those waves and bolts with roots + cc to MAKE SURE they have the greatest possible chance to connect with the target...so imagine in world pvp, or in an open BG where LOS pretty much doesnt exist.

I'm not complaining, im merely agreeing that it happens a lot more then some people realize.

Personally ive always been more cautious of a good warrior though, more so then a warlock (mainly because i cant interrupt a warrior where as if i can get in range of a warlock...IF mind you...i can at least interrupt them)

[Kevyne-Shandris]

The only dot a warlock has that hits 27k+ in pvp is doom, which takes 15sec to tick before haste... You say hots do half of that, are you pvping naked or something?

Are you an OP Shaman or something?

If you get hit by a warlock for 150k+ by a cb and you ain't getting focused by other people and you claim to have problem with it, you deserve to die since it means you are bad. A 3sec cb with full cooldowns shouldn't be allowed to be cast. Sure it can happen the warlock gets 1 cast off but if you are taking several cb to the face, you should just quit the game.

A WoWer calling another "bad" is like a 2 year-old crying on the playground.

And you need to learn to read instead of blindingly trying to defend your class to ridiculous levels. Arena has what to do with BGs again?

Huh?
Huh?
Huh?

BGs operate differently than a 2min blast fest arenas have become. It's about completing objectives, and you're not getting to that Warlock with 5 freaking warriors on you, either. All this song and dance about a 3 second cast is big news to arena types, it means nothing in BGs especially with meatshields like warriors and DKs keeping folks away. All you have to deal with is 2/3/5 others, I have to deal with 5+ warriors literally on my back at once in BGs.

Also, instant dispel was retarded,

Not as retarded as 164k crits without effective counters.

[Deleted]

Its funny how everything i said some time ago got alot of hate and it turned out to be true.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

I just tested this and you are completely right. Im sorry for implying it was a lie. I was hoping that it was bullshit.
I wonder when the next nerfbat to warlock will arrive because it sure as hell will

Normally folks don't complain if it's some slight lead, but the blasts hit v-e-r-y hard. So someone with 50 to 60% resil is going to get hit by 1/2 or more blast, with 20+k ticks that can't be dispelled (as it's on a 8 sec CD, which is a long time with DoTs doing so much damage now). In PvP if the health is below 50% it's very difficult to keep a player alive because it just takes one shot to seal the deal (and you can't rely on CDs, as the other guy can tell if yours are down to blow their own).

Chaos Bolt needs a nerf simply because the counters are slower/inefficient. By buffing warlocks to that extent it makes healing not worth the effort (this isn't even a triage model, this is simply working for a morgue).