[MW] Happy with 5.1?

[Deleted]

Yes. I said it's fine if you're in my gear. At lower levels it's perhaps too harsh, but I think Blizzard should balance classes assuming BiS gear.

What's wrong with you? Tell me one good reason why Blizzard should balance classes around gear that .01% (if even) obtain.
When you're in BiS gear you probably have cleared everything and don't need any balancing anymore...

[Deleted]

sorry to say that but in the hero fights we have at the moment i am Ohhm the last 3-4 minutes of the fight and this is not happy to play with, also the change that I now heal 20k hps less then the other players in our Raid ...
this seems like frustrating ... sorry but I think after november 27 the monk heal is the lowest in content

[Correctsan]

Yes. I said it's fine if you're in my gear. At lower levels it's perhaps too harsh, but I think Blizzard should balance classes assuming BiS gear.

I really wonder how long u have been healing, or in any healing community like old elitist jerks forums or somewhere that counts.. This is one of the most brainless comment i've ever heard in years

[Deleted]

I really wonder how long u have been healing, or in any healing community like old elitist jerks forums or somewhere that counts.. This is one of the most brainless comment i've ever heard in years

It's a troll.
People can't be this stupid. It has to be a troll.
Right ...?

[HamSandwichFace]

I really wonder how long u have been healing, or in any healing community like old elitist jerks forums or somewhere that counts.. This is one of the most brainless comment i've ever heard in years

Elitist Jerks is an idiot website. They said Resto Shaman were useful in Ulduar for AoE healing. I haven't listened to a word they've said since. The forums are full of people who focus on maths and not realistic situations. They're idiots.

[rmq]

Elitist Jerks is an idiot website. They said Resto Shaman were useful in Ulduar for AoE healing. I haven't listened to a word they've said since. The forums are full of people who focus on maths and not realistic situations. They're idiots.

This argument is so strong, it makes me laugh and cry at the same time

[Correctsan]

Elitist Jerks is an idiot website. They said Resto Shaman were useful in Ulduar for AoE healing. I haven't listened to a word they've said since. The forums are full of people who focus on maths and not realistic situations. They're idiots.

You are the perfect example of why so many good players does not play this game anymore.. Blizzard wants to make ur kind happy for 2 expansions now, cant believe u even raided in ulduar..

[Deleted]

Elitist Jerks is an idiot website. They said Resto Shaman were useful in Ulduar for AoE healing. I haven't listened to a word they've said since. The forums are full of people who focus on maths and not realistic situations. They're idiots.

Elitist Jerks LIVES from the contributions players make. If you decide not to make any then that is your loss. There is NO other community that is able to provide in depth analysis of mathematics. The community is grewing weaker every month because people decide to take rather than give and contribute. Never ever is taking mathematics out of context been the way to go.

But there are still others that help and improve so not all hope is lost. EJ forums has been not as good as before on most sections, this is because so many people, like your comment shows, don't get what it is about. Maybe you should , with your great insight, write a guide that is as in depth as many found on this site and its blogs OR prove the analysis provided there wrong. Either thing would be something that helps. But no, you only seem to sit around and be a prime example of the cancer that is killing the mmorpg community.

[Totaltotemic]

Why is HamSandwich still parading around here as if he has a clue what he's talking about? Really should stick to his own realm forums if he wants to just boast about how good he is despite not knowing anything about the game.

[HamSandwichFace]

Why is HamSandwich still parading around here as if he has a clue what he's talking about? Really should stick to his own realm forums if he wants to just boast about how good he is despite not knowing anything about the game.

Giggled. I know nothing yet am pretty much the only monk who's not calling the changes "horrible". They aren't horrible, only horrible players think that. I'm managing to complete all of the Gold Challenge Mode runs despite the nerf and being scaled to 463 gear. The changes really aren't that bad if you know, you can adapt. I guess people don't want to adapt though.

SCK, Chi Burst, and Chi Torpedo is #1 in most AoE fights now. Only a select few fights prefer Eminence, Renewing, and Uplift. I'm sure you all know which ones those are though! My healing on Lei Shi heroic was really competitive and I fucked up, I was only using 1 trinket because I forgot to change my gear set to equip my 517 Spirits of the Sun: losing 1400 intellect and some 1600~ passive spirit is a huge loss too, y'know!

Elitist Jerks LIVES from the contributions players make. If you decide not to make any then that is your loss. There is NO other community that is able to provide in depth analysis of mathematics. The community is grewing weaker every month because people decide to take rather than give and contribute. Never ever is taking mathematics out of context been the way to go.

But there are still others that help and improve so not all hope is lost. EJ forums has been not as good as before on most sections, this is because so many people, like your comment shows, don't get what it is about. Maybe you should , with your great insight, write a guide that is as in depth as many found on this site and its blogs OR prove the analysis provided there wrong. Either thing would be something that helps. But no, you only seem to sit around and be a prime example of the cancer that is killing the mmorpg community.

No, the mathematics cannot be applied to healing. Sure, you can use maths to (correctly) argue that int flask/food > spirit flask/food but that's about it. Monk healing is simple:

> You should always be in melee
> Is there a "damage increase" mechanic?
> Is there AoE damage?
> Is there a healing buff present?
> Is there a mana buff present in 1 phase, and non-existent in another?

If there's a damage increase mechanic you heal via Eminence.
If there's AoE damage and damage increase you heal via Eminence, otherwise SCK + Chi Burst + Chi Torpedo
If there is a healing buff present, Monks should have priority on it
If there is a mana buff present you should save your mana tea stacks for the phase without mana (Sha of Fear HC etc).

Let me elaborate the last point: Sha of Fear HC has a mechanic where (if you take Ominous Cackle) you can regenerate nearly all of your mana so it is commonplace to -NEVER- use Mana Tea during the first phase. You save it for the second phase which lasts a lot longer and due to the nature of the damage Mana Tea stacks will be hard to generate (as you're mostly healing Huddle + tanks).

Also, to the people questioning why I use a staff. It increases Xuen's attack speed and thus you gain more benefit from it. With the "nerf" to Eminence as a style of healing, I'd rather empower a very powerful CD (Xuen is really powerful if used well) instead of empower a style of healing which is an "in this situation do it" style, that doesn't sit well with me. Besides, staves look cute.

[Malthanis]

Okay, the insults and insinuations that people are 'bad' need to stop. If we can't keep this constructive, it will be locked.

[siccora]

Giggled. I know nothing yet am pretty much the only monk who's not calling the changes "horrible". They aren't horrible, only horrible players think that. I'm managing to complete all of the Gold Challenge Mode runs despite the nerf and being scaled to 463 gear. The changes really aren't that bad if you know, you can adapt. I guess people don't want to adapt though.

SCK, Chi Burst, and Chi Torpedo is #1 in most AoE fights now. Only a select few fights prefer Eminence, Renewing, and Uplift. I'm sure you all know which ones those are though! My healing on Lei Shi heroic was really competitive and I fucked up, I was only using 1 trinket because I forgot to change my gear set to equip my 517 Spirits of the Sun: losing 1400 intellect and some 1600~ passive spirit is a huge loss too, y'know!


No, the mathematics cannot be applied to healing. Sure, you can use maths to (correctly) argue that int flask/food > spirit flask/food but that's about it. Monk healing is simple:

> You should always be in melee
> Is there a "damage increase" mechanic?
> Is there AoE damage?
> Is there a healing buff present?
> Is there a mana buff present in 1 phase, and non-existent in another?

If there's a damage increase mechanic you heal via Eminence.
If there's AoE damage and damage increase you heal via Eminence, otherwise SCK + Chi Burst + Chi Torpedo
If there is a healing buff present, Monks should have priority on it
If there is a mana buff present you should save your mana tea stacks for the phase without mana (Sha of Fear HC etc).

Let me elaborate the last point: Sha of Fear HC has a mechanic where (if you take Ominous Cackle) you can regenerate nearly all of your mana so it is commonplace to -NEVER- use Mana Tea during the first phase. You save it for the second phase which lasts a lot longer and due to the nature of the damage Mana Tea stacks will be hard to generate (as you're mostly healing Huddle + tanks).

Also, to the people questioning why I use a staff. It increases Xuen's attack speed and thus you gain more benefit from it. With the "nerf" to Eminence as a style of healing, I'd rather empower a very powerful CD (Xuen is really powerful if used well) instead of empower a style of healing which is an "in this situation do it" style, that doesn't sit well with me. Besides, staves look cute.

thank you, sir

[Totaltotemic]

Giggled. I know nothing yet am pretty much the only monk who's not calling the changes "horrible". They aren't horrible, only horrible players think that. I'm managing to complete all of the Gold Challenge Mode runs despite the nerf and being scaled to 463 gear. The changes really aren't that bad if you know, you can adapt. I guess people don't want to adapt though.

Challenge modes are a joke in terms of mana management if you know how to press the "drink water" button every time you go out of combat. I did them a couple of weeks ago and just abused Mana Tea persisting through pulls, which isn't something that happens in raids. My point is that you should STOP telling everyone that a 30% mana cost increase is fine without playtesting it or doing any math whatsoever. "Hurr durr I end fights with 50% mana" is evidence that mana costs need to be increased, but 30% is a very big number when it's on almost every spell we use. I've provided you the mathematical evidence that it is a lot more than you're making it out to be, and you have many testimonials right here, and not a single one is claiming that it's no big deal like you think it is.

Also, claiming that mathematics cannot be applied to healing is just plain false, not to mention stupid. You didn't even provide a reason for that, seems just like more ass-pulls to trick yourself into thinking you know what you're talking about.

[HamSandwichFace]

Challenge modes are a joke in terms of mana management if you know how to press the "drink water" button every time you go out of combat. I did them a couple of weeks ago and just abused Mana Tea persisting through pulls, which isn't something that happens in raids. My point is that you should STOP telling everyone that a 30% mana cost increase is fine without playtesting it or doing any math whatsoever. "Hurr durr I end fights with 50% mana" is evidence that mana costs need to be increased, but 30% is a very big number when it's on almost every spell we use. I've provided you the mathematical evidence that it is a lot more than you're making it out to be, and you have many testimonials right here, and not a single one is claiming that it's no big deal like you think it is.

Also, claiming that mathematics cannot be applied to healing is just plain false, not to mention stupid. You didn't even provide a reason for that, seems just like more ass-pulls to trick yourself into thinking you know what you're talking about.

I did Moshugan Vaults HC (granted on farm) with the mana increase ... and my mana was fine. I suffered no issues. I linked the logs back a few pages, but I can link again and yes - I hate Feng the Accursed as a Monk. It sucks for our class.

[Affiniti]

After the crit change to mana tea? Everyone.

Please don't use Affiniti as some measurement by how "monks are good" or "monks are bad". The guy doesn't have a single high rank on WoLs. It's pretty tragic, actually.

I'd love to write you a response, but everything I think of typically ends in proving how big of a tool you are and really shows just how stupid you sound in this thread, so I'll just not.


I will make this simple:

WE have no utility - and by utility I mean tank cooldowns, raid cooldowns (mitigating here, not ala resto druid), or other utility (10% increased HP via shaman, mana tide totem via shaman, absorbs via priest, the toolkit paladins have, so forth). When we do comparable healing throughput to that of other healing classes that HAVE utility you do not, you are a wasted raid spot. I don't care how you try to spin this, if a priest/shaman/paladin is slightly behind you (marginally, as is in every single one of your logs from this week) or even ahead of you (Will of the Emps, Feng which is/was a fantastic fight for monks, so on) then it is simply BEST to bring in one of those classes. Does it mean everyone will? No. Mana is a lot tighter than it needs to be, albeit a bit of my concern with it is adjusting to the mana change and the inherent growing pains, and our burst capabilities are almost all gone with RM being unreliable, unpredictable in placement, and in very small numbers.

We do have a small toolkit to compensate for that, I was doing okay-ish on protectors until the final phase where I tunneled and defaulted back to jab-jab-uplift for no real reason, but SCK Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo is basically it.

The Class is not in an okay spot with these changes. Yes we needed re-balanced, and yes these are overboard. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional {Talking to you here Captain HamSandwichFace}

[Deleted]

Also, to the people questioning why I use a staff. It increases Xuen's attack speed and thus you gain more benefit from it. With the "nerf" to Eminence as a style of healing, I'd rather empower a very powerful CD (Xuen is really powerful if used well) instead of empower a style of healing which is an "in this situation do it" style, that doesn't sit well with me. Besides, staves look cute.

>says healing has nothing to do with math
>provides measurement for why he does what while healing
seems legit

[HamSandwichFace]

I'd love to write you a response, but everything I think of typically ends in proving how big of a tool you are and really shows just how stupid you sound in this thread, so I'll just not.

Do you think Monks are fine at the moment? That's all you need to answer.

[Affiniti]

And this is just hillarious - epsecially the part about balancing class round BiS gear which will take months to obtain

Do you think Monks are fine at the moment? That's all you need to answer.

I edited my post to expand my thoughts on monks right now.

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/frostmane/nymzee/

View current tier, throws a median percentile for your parses since you seem to care about them so much (Hint, ur ~30% on most fights)

Edit: I do not care about parses as a healer. Healer parses require your other healers to either not heal, or aren't doing their jobs properly. I'd suggest refraining from judging someone based on logs that you can't even see to try and make a point, it makes you look stupid

[HamSandwichFace]

I edited my post to expand my thoughts on monks right now.

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/frostmane/nymzee/

View current tier, throws a median percentile for your parses since you seem to care about them so much (Hint, ur ~30% on most fights)

Edit: I do not care about parses as a healer. Healer parses require your other healers to either not heal, or aren't doing their jobs properly. I'd suggest refraining from judging someone based on logs that you can't even see to try and make a point, it makes you look stupid

I guess I touched a nerve. I'm sorry.

I think Monks are fine. Revival has it's uses. Some fights it's really strong, others not so much. Pretty much like Barrier. Disc is in a really good spot and I think Monks are ahead of every other healer. Paladins are ahead monks depending on the necessity to tank heal. As for our class though, yes it has issues. I've said that. I think the mana fix was justified, I'm sure you'd agree. I could cry "OMG WE'RE TERRIBLE" but I truly do't think that.

[Affiniti]

Mana mattering was pretty insane last night. I agree we needed a change, but not as far as they went. They went overboard. When I have to hardcore focus on my mana the entire fight, and a priest can get a 90,000 mana rapture proc with mana tide I tend to disagree that we needed as big of a nerf as we got mana wise.

Your other points are wrong.

"Revival is like a barrier"

Except barrier is a damage reduction, which can save lives from damage via mechanics, as opposed to a spell that simply heals it up after the fact. Again, revival just flat heals. Don't get me wrong i love revival, it's nice that it's instant, mobile, etc, but it isn't a MITIGATING cooldown, which is what is important here.