Should father have any say about abortion?

[Vuljatar]

Yes getting an abortion is soooooo rewarding.

Raising a child is equally the responsibility of both parents. Mothers with child support payments don't just sit around at home all day doing nothing. Hell, large proportions of promised child support payments don't even show up. Some people have a very skewed view of what it means to actually raise a child.

I'm obviously talking about her thinking "Hey, I've always wanted a baby!" and then having her way with the father's bank account for the next 18 years. And saying that "large proportions of promised child support payments don't even shot up" doesn't really have anything to do with this discussion, it rather feels like you're trying to paint all men as deadbeats and therefore less deserving of rights than women.

[Grishnok]

Absolutely he shoud have say as long as they were both consenting adults in having sex. But then again what do I know, in the current world of feminism and the stripping of mens masculinity. Im not saying we should live in a patriarchal society, far from it, but as of now its going to the exact other side of the extreme where women shit all over men and their rights. Makes me sick.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

No, I want men to have an equal call on what happens to the fetus that is 50% theirs.

You're equating biological contribution to ownership. When somebody says that a baby is theirs, they mean it has their DNA. They don't own the baby.

[semaphore]

I'm all in for the woman's right to decide over her own body and all. But seriously are you unable/unwilling to take responsibility for anything at all?

What rubbish. Getting an abortion is taking responsibility. You don't get to decide it doesn't count just because you don't like it.

If you want to keep the child and the man doesn't, he still has to suffer the consequences. You rob him from choice and wallet and still has the stomach to blame and put full responsibility on the guy for the pregnancy with stupid comments like " You shouldn't have knocked me up then, hurrdurr". Do you not see how fucking stupid and evil that makes you look? That is the definition of going full retard. How can you possibly be suited to raise a child?

So what's your problem with allowing women to exercise control over their own body and get abortions? After all that absolves men of whatever, if any, financial burdens of raising the child.

This is not aimed at anyone particular. It's just generally aimed towards the feminists and sexist posts in this thread.

Yeah more feminist bashing. Typical.

[skrump]

No a father should have no say in abortion as he is not the one who will be carrying the child for 9 months.

The father should however legally be allowed to relinquish all rights/responsibility pertaining to the child up until the point that Abortion is no longer an option for the women.
(the reason being equal rights) and to be honest this "he could of used a condom" shit needs to stop as women have far more options when it comes to birth control methods

In short their is no legitimate reason A man should not be able to relinquish rights/responsibility of an unborn child

[Vuljatar]

I support you the moment you ask to carry that fetus inside yourself instead.

You do realize that isn't currently a practical option, right?

What you're saying is that you are perfectly fine with the current system where women have all of the rights and none of the responsibility.

[semaphore]

I'm obviously talking about her thinking "Hey, I've always wanted a baby!" and then having her way with the father's bank account for the next 18 years.

Hyperbole. The legal system doesn't work like that. Now, the law is crap in this regard depending on where you are from, but it's not like a woman gain crushing control over men's finances just by getting pregnant with his baby. Hell, the median child support payment in the United States is what, $300 a month?

Yeah, $3k a year is totally ruining your life.

[Vanyali]

You do realize that isn't currently a practical option, right?

What you're saying is that you are perfectly fine with the current system where women have all of the rights and none of the responsibility.

Carrying a baby is a pretty fucking HUGE responsibility.
Aborting a baby is an equally fucking HUGE responsibility.

Different doesn't make it disappear. She pays a massive physical toll in ALL situations and an emotional one in most, he pays a monetary fee in one situation.

[Vuljatar]

What rubbish. Getting an abortion is taking responsibility. You don't get to decide it doesn't count just because you don't like it.

So, by your definition, if a man got a woman pregnant and didn't want anything to do with the baby, punching her really hard in the gut would be taking responsibility?

[semaphore]

You do realize that isn't currently a practical option, right?

Then you realise why complete equality is not practical.

What you're saying is that you are perfectly fine with the current system where women have all of the rights and none of the responsibility.

No, I'm perfectly fine with acknowledging that until artificial wombs are available this is the best we can do in an inherently unequal situation.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 06:57 AM ----------

So, by your definition, if a man got a woman pregnant and didn't want anything to do with the baby, punching her really hard in the gut would be taking responsibility?

Strawman. Physical assault is illegal.

[skrump]

So what's your problem with allowing women to exercise control over their own body and get abortions? After all that absolves men of whatever, if any, financial burdens of raising the child.
Yeah more feminist bashing. Typical.

It's not about denying women of control, it's about feminists ensuring that men are bound by the females decision and unable to make one of their own without being severely penalized for the next 18 years simply because they are denied the path every women has to escape responsibility of parenting without repercussion.

So yeah, either everybody gets a get out of jail free card when it comes to parenting (that's what abortion essentially is) or no one does.

[Moosedrool]

Only on MMO-Champion...

[Vuljatar]

Hyperbole. The legal system doesn't work like that. Now, the law is crap in this regard depending on where you are from, but it's not like a woman gain crushing control over men's finances just by getting pregnant with his baby. Hell, the median child support payment in the United States is what, $300 a month?

Yeah, $3k a year is totally ruining your life.

Child support payments are based predominantly on the income of the person making the payments. So yeah, if you're dirt poor it might be $3k a year, and yeah if you're dirt poor $3k a year is going to make your life a lot harder.

[knumskul]

Just despicable, really. Why should anyone be allowed to take legal control over someone else's body?

Justice system + jail (death penalty may apply) greets you warmly on a sunny morning with some tea and scones.

[Annapolis]

I'm not really sure what "men having a say" would entail. Would that mean if the man and woman were in disagreement then the decision would default to the man always? Half the time? Sometimes? The way it is now the decision just falls on the woman, but you can't really promise both parties equal say because they will often disagree.

Pregnancy and abortions are both serious health situations. If men were given a right to sometimes override a woman's decision on the matter then they could sometimes cause a woman's death against her will. This just makes no sense.

I can sort of understand a feeling of unfairness. But honestly this unfairness, if there is any, was imposed by evolution and can't be undone.

[semaphore]

It's not about denying women of control, it's about feminists ensuring that men are bound by the females decision and unable to make one of their own without being severely penalized for the next 18 years simply because they are denied the path every women has to escape responsibility of parenting without repercussion.

I'm a feminist. I said very much near the start that I believe men should have an option of giving up all parental rights along with responsibilities. Your feminist bashing has next to no actual merits beyond the typical cry again "crazy feminazis".

without being severely penalized for the next 18 years

How severely is that, exactly?

[Vuljatar]

Strawman. Physical assault is illegal.

Well fine then, slipping something into her food/drink that's designed to terminate the pregnancy. Would that be the responsible thing to do? I think not.

[Dakara]

So what's your problem with allowing women to exercise control over their own body and get abortions? After all that absolves men of whatever, if any, financial burdens of raising the child.

I think the problem here is that it's a double edge sword from the man's perspective.

If he wants to keep the child, and is prepared to care for, love and raise it, but the woman doesn't and terminates it, he loses.
If he doesn't want the child, wants it terminated but the women chooses to keep it, he has to pay child support (or have a child he doesn't want/love) and still loses.

Once again, I agree with the opinion that a women shouldn't have things forced upon her body. But if both parties irresponsibly create a child they didn't intend, the final decision rests with the woman because it's her body. Once again, not necessarily wrong, but not really right either.

Personally, I feel abortions should be regulated, similar to adoption... but maybe that's because I know a girl who's had 9 abortions before she was 30, and another with 5 kids to 5 dad's who's getting so much from child support and social welfare she doesn't need to work a day in her life again. How do I know these woman? Well I spent 4 years as a Stripclub DJ while I was studying.

For every argument/example there's always going to be the polar opposite, which is why I feel regulation/screening is the answer and not a blanket rule. Through counseling and consultation with professionals, one would hope the right decision would be made on a case by case basis.

[semaphore]

Child support payments are based predominantly on the income of the person making the payments. So yeah, if you're dirt poor it might be $3k a year, and yeah if you're dirt poor $3k a year is going to make your life a lot harder.

The average is $3-4k a year.

Unless you want to tell me that the average men paying child support are all dirt poor and tremendously hurt by $3k a month.

[Forfax]

Child support payments are based predominantly on the income of the person making the payments. So yeah, if you're dirt poor it might be $3k a year, and yeah if you're dirt poor $3k a year is going to make your life a lot harder.

3k a years over 18years is 54k , 54 is still a huge amount of money , there are a unlimited amount of thing that you can do with it.
e.x , investing it and making more out of it xd