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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    Generally I am, but there are a lot of causes worth fighting for, and many of them are at home and actually help the people who pay the tax money who make said fighting possible.

    I'm not saying "we shouldn't help them", I'm saying that we need to get our priorities straight. There are a LOT of things that are currently more worthy of our time and money.
    Untrue. I adopt the rule utilitarian principles of judging who is in most need of my (our) help. There is no one in the United States currently running from city to city desperately for fear of having his entire family wiped out. There is no one within the United States who is having soldiers from the government knock down their doors, burn their neighborhoods, and kill their families.

    Yes, people at home need our help, especially in these stressful times, but I look at all humans equally. Perhaps I am naive for expecting a humanity that only abandoned most notions of racism ~50 years ago to value all humans equally, but I already do. The Syrians need our help and, in my opinion, we should give it to them (and we will, bet on it as the USS Eisenhower is in position to deliver liberty and security to the destitute OORAH.)

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrulerxxx View Post
    The mere mention of the possibility of using chemical weapons on their own people is construed as being evil. Look up the Geneva Convention then come back to me.

    This isn't a question of what is evil. Because we know Assad Is a worthless dirtbag who wants to kill his own people. The rebels, even though as islamic extremists, are fighting to counter this sort of execution of weaponry and mass destruction. When the time comes we might have to deal with them as well but evil is evil.
    Precisely; I'm glad to see someone share my sentiments on this.

  2. #82
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    You mentioned endangering Israel. Doesn't US involvement do exactly that? Iran has supposedly been supporting Assad recently, so us getting involved bascilly turns it into another Korean incident where we fight Iran in Syria, and if that happens how secure will Israel be when we start piling up assets there. For that matter, how safe, or happy with us, will our other allies be? Say, the Saudis?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    French Special Ops is preparing to seize chemical stockpiles. Sorry no translation. From Reddit.

    http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-d...1539285_53.php
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  4. #84
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrulerxxx View Post
    The mere mention of the possibility of using chemical weapons on their own people is construed as being evil. Look up the Geneva Convention then come back to me.

    This isn't a question of what is evil. Because we know Assad Is a worthless dirtbag who wants to kill his own people. The rebels, even though as islamic extremists, are fighting to counter this sort of execution of weaponry and mass destruction. When the time comes we might have to deal with them as well but evil is evil.

    No, the rebels are not fighting the counter the use of WMD's. I'm am quite certain they have never ever said anything related to that. The rebels are fighting for control of the country, WMD's and all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  5. #85
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    You mentioned endangering Israel. Doesn't US involvement do exactly that? Iran has supposedly been supporting Assad recently, so us getting involved bascilly turns it into another Korean incident where we fight Iran in Syria, and if that happens how secure will Israel be when we start piling up assets there. For that matter, how safe, or happy with us, will our other allies be? Say, the Saudis?
    If Iran acts in reaction to United States intervention in Syria, then Iran will have made its own grave as the Iranian regime will lose all support at home and across the Arab world. Iran counts on support from countries such as Egypt to maintain its political posture within the region. Us intervening would also improve our image there (not that it can get any worse as it stands), but it would also weaken our traditional foes there.

    The Saudis are already supporting the rebels and the Arab league encourages American intervention, so I'm not sure why you'd say that the Saudis would be angry.

    Anyways, let's gogo, green light to engage. Perhaps it's just me, but I like nothing than more altruism in action, especially on a large scale.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    French Special Ops is preparing to seize chemical stockpiles. Sorry no translation. From Reddit.

    http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-d...1539285_53.php
    Although the French military is largely ineffective in terms of force projection, this is a good sign of good faith. I am glad to see more countries stepping up to the plate. Let's save our brothers in humanity.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    No, the rebels are not fighting the counter the use of WMD's. I'm am quite certain they have never ever said anything related to that. The rebels are fighting for control of the country, WMD's and all.
    No, that is idiocy. I'm sorry, but the rebels are fighting for a variety of causes: when you say they're purely fighting for control of the country, you come across as someone with predisposed feelings and an agenda. There are rag-tag rebels fighting to protect their homes, to avenge their fallen brothers in arms, for liberty, for self-determination, for a society in which they are not penalized for being in the "wrong" religious sect, and for a society in which they determine their own government.

  6. #86
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    News just in, Iraq has WMD's and are killing babies in Kuwait, we better go invade them! - 10 years ago. All a lie.

    STOP FALLING FOR THE FUCKING LIES PEOPLE!!!!!!!
    Exactry this. This is a proxy war regime change. Weve armed and trained the rebels otherwise it would have been over long ago.

    Once the rebels are in charge watch them destabilise the whole region. As irans last ally in the region it's aanother stepping stone on the road to Iran.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Untrue. I adopt the rule utilitarian principles of judging who is in most need of my (our) help. There is no one in the United States currently running from city to city desperately for fear of having his entire family wiped out. There is no one within the United States who is having soldiers from the government knock down their doors, burn their neighborhoods, and kill their families.

    Yes, people at home need our help, especially in these stressful times, but I look at all humans equally. Perhaps I am naive for expecting a humanity that only abandoned most notions of racism ~50 years ago to value all humans equally, but I already do. The Syrians need our help and, in my opinion, we should give it to them (and we will, bet on it as the USS Eisenhower is in position to deliver liberty and security to the destitute OORAH.)
    First off, there are people in the U.S. who are dying every day who could be saved by that amount of money and manpower.

    Second, if you are truly dedicated to the big picture and what is best for all mankind, then you would support spending that money and manpower on NASA. Ultimately the future of the human race is in space. This is an absolute fact.

    Third... while it is a noble ideal to value all humans equally, it is not a practical stance for a nation to have. If a country doesn't look out for it's people first, then it ultimately gets screwed by the fact that the vast majority of other countries WILL look out for their own people first.

    Fourth, what do the American taxpayers gain from invading Syria? They are the ones footing the bill, they should be benefiting from it. But all intervention in Syria would accomplish is adding to the resentment against us in the mid-east, resentment that has been made massive by our poorly-thought-out interventionism in the past.

  8. #88
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post

    No, that is idiocy. I'm sorry, but the rebels are fighting for a variety of causes: when you say they're purely fighting for control of the country, you come across as someone with predisposed feelings and an agenda. There are rag-tag rebels fighting to protect their homes, to avenge their fallen brothers in arms, for liberty, for self-determination, for a society in which they are not penalized for being in the "wrong" religious sect, and for a society in which they determine their own government.

    In short...they want a revolution, to take control of the government/country...exactly what I said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

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    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Exactry this. This is a proxy war regime change. Weve armed and trained the rebels otherwise it would have been over long ago.

    Once the rebels are in charge watch them destabilise the whole region. As irans last ally in the region it's aanother stepping stone on the road to Iran.
    So, because some of it was a lie 10 years ago, we're going to let legions of innocent people die simply because of an illogical assumption that it's a lie again? That is the most asinine notion that I have ever heard of. Wake the (expletive) up, the government isn't always out to get you.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    In short...they want a revolution, to take control of the government/country...exactly what I said...
    In short, if you ever want to engage in a serious debate, try not to resort to pathetic strawmans if you want to be taken even slightly seriously. When strawmans show up, I interpret it as you acknowledging that you're losing in the logical side of the debate.

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Exactry this. This is a proxy war regime change. Weve armed and trained the rebels otherwise it would have been over long ago.

    Once the rebels are in charge watch them destabilise the whole region. As irans last ally in the region it's aanother stepping stone on the road to Iran.
    Who could have guessed that soulcrusher thinks its a false flag conspiracy? Not me.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  11. #91
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    In short, if you ever want to engage in a serious debate, try not to resort to pathetic strawmans if you want to be taken even slightly seriously. When strawmans show up, I interpret it as you acknowledging that you're losing in the logical side of the debate.
    Ahh there it is, you don't have anything better to say so you just shrug it off and say 'straw man'.

    Read back through what I actually said, not how you chose to spin it, and you will say that I am simply stating facts not trying to suggest anything beyond them.

    There are no straw men here. Darkruler stated the rebels were fighting to stop the use of chemical weapons, of course those weapons wouldn't have been mentioned without the conflict to begin with, but I guess that's just a minor detail. I countered that no, they are fighting for much more then that, they want to topple the government and take over the country. Not a bad idea given the current regime, I'm no fan of Assad. I was simply stating the obvious, but I guess you can't handle that.


    Oh, and FYI, there is no logic in to your argument. You attempt to apeal to our emotional 'sense of humanity'. That is exactly the opposite of logical assessment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  12. #92
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    I know people are entitled to their own opinion... but i wonder why some people on MMO even bother opening their mouths because they're literally clueless morons with no perspective on the value of human life. Comparisons to Iraq are somewhat educated but what we're looking at this time is a GENUINE humanitarian crisis. For months now we've all stood by as Assad has massacred thousands of women, men and children in "rebel held cities". Now try and imagine for me on a human level if your government was dropping bombs blindly on your town killing your friends and family because it was near a rebel held area.

    Sickening to see some peoples pure lack of any understanding just being concerned about "Where their US tax dollars could be betten oil battle.r spent", your military budget is already amongst the highest in the world it's about time it was put to good use in preventing a real humanitarian crisis instead of bolstering political leverage All of the NATO countries should do what is truly right here and hopefully go down the line France is taking to prevent this before we see a repeat of the Saddam attacks against the Kurds.

  13. #93
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volas View Post
    I know people are entitled to their own opinion... but i wonder why some people on MMO even bother opening their mouths because they're literally clueless morons with no perspective on the value of human life. Comparisons to Iraq are somewhat educated but what we're looking at this time is a GENUINE humanitarian crisis. For months now we've all stood by as Assad has massacred thousands of women, men and children in "rebel held cities". Now try and imagine for me on a human level if your government was dropping bombs blindly on your town killing your friends and family because it was near a rebel held area.

    Sickening to see some peoples pure lack of any understanding just being concerned about "Where their US tax dollars could be betten oil battle.r spent", your military budget is already amongst the highest in the world it's about time it was put to good use in preventing a real humanitarian crisis instead of bolstering political leverage All of the NATO countries should do what is truly right here and hopefully go down the line France is taking to prevent this before we see a repeat of the Saddam attacks against the Kurds.
    Is this our first 'US better fix this or you guys suck' post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  14. #94
    Brewmaster Darkrulerxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volas View Post
    I know people are entitled to their own opinion... but i wonder why some people on MMO even bother opening their mouths because they're literally clueless morons with no perspective on the value of human life. Comparisons to Iraq are somewhat educated but what we're looking at this time is a GENUINE humanitarian crisis. For months now we've all stood by as Assad has massacred thousands of women, men and children in "rebel held cities". Now try and imagine for me on a human level if your government was dropping bombs blindly on your town killing your friends and family because it was near a rebel held area.

    Sickening to see some peoples pure lack of any understanding just being concerned about "Where their US tax dollars could be betten oil battle.r spent", your military budget is already amongst the highest in the world it's about time it was put to good use in preventing a real humanitarian crisis instead of bolstering political leverage All of the NATO countries should do what is truly right here and hopefully go down the line France is taking to prevent this before we see a repeat of the Saddam attacks against the Kurds.
    Totally agree with this. At least some people still have humanity left within them.

  15. #95
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volas View Post
    I know people are entitled to their own opinion... but i wonder why some people on MMO even bother opening their mouths because they're literally clueless morons with no perspective on the value of human life. Comparisons to Iraq are somewhat educated but what we're looking at this time is a GENUINE humanitarian crisis. For months now we've all stood by as Assad has massacred thousands of women, men and children in "rebel held cities". Now try and imagine for me on a human level if your government was dropping bombs blindly on your town killing your friends and family because it was near a rebel held area.

    Sickening to see some peoples pure lack of any understanding just being concerned about "Where their US tax dollars could be betten oil battle.r spent", your military budget is already amongst the highest in the world it's about time it was put to good use in preventing a real humanitarian crisis instead of bolstering political leverage All of the NATO countries should do what is truly right here and hopefully go down the line France is taking to prevent this before we see a repeat of the Saddam attacks against the Kurds.
    Exactly. More people who share my sentiments with regards to this, how refreshing. I'm tired of the quasi-intellectuals who wander these forums who still haven't shed the naivety of their sheltered lives.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Is this our first 'US better fix this or you guys suck' post?
    We had better fix it and we will. Now, if you don't like that, you're free to move to Mexico or something.

  16. #96
    Pit Lord Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    Just keep falling for the same lies again and again, keep electing the same swine again and again, keep sending your sons and daughters to die for the same war profiteers and the same military industrial complex again and again. When you tell a lie enough, even if its completely ridiculous, the idiots will begin to believe it.
    Nothing will stop the downfall of the West in the coming years. These proxy wars and regime changes are a last ditched attempt of maintaining an Empire dominated by USA, Britain and France. Remember the last time Empires faced off when they were about to fall? We got the Great War. Remember when Rome fell? We had the Dark Ages. This time it will be both, it will a constant state of war, there will be no electricity after the power plants are rendered useless by EMP's, there will be no food because of the nuclear winter and humanity will die...

    Keep believing there lies, good sheep.

  17. #97
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post

    We had better fix it and we will. Now, if you don't like that, you're free to move to Mexico or something.

    Who could have predicted that you would go straight from: 'ermahgerd we GOTTA do something, oooh the humanity!!!!' ...too 'yeaaaah lets start another war!!!' and then on too 'if you don't like it, you can git out!!'


    Not like that was predictable or anything......
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  18. #98
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    Just keep falling for the same lies again and again, keep electing the same swine again and again, keep sending your sons and daughters to die for the same war profiteers and the same military industrial complex again and again. When you tell a lie enough, even if its completely ridiculous, the idiots will begin to believe it.
    Nothing will stop the downfall of the West in the coming years. These proxy wars and regime changes are a last ditched attempt of maintaining an Empire dominated by USA, Britain and France. Remember the last time Empires faced off when they were about to fall? We got the Great War. Remember when Rome fell? We had the Dark Ages. This time it will be both, it will a constant state of war, there will be no electricity after the power plants are rendered useless by EMP's, there will be no food because of the nuclear winter and humanity will die...

    Keep believing there lies, good sheep.
    1. No one is sending me to die for anything, I'm enlisting (or OCS out of University) to be a bulwark of liberty for the oppressed.
    2. What downfall? You sound like a ranting conspiracy theorist at this point.
    3. Simply because the government was wrong regarding WMDs in Iraq does not mean we should ignore the plight of fellow humans in Syria who are experiencing a systematic genocide right now. Wake up.
    4. The world is monopolar right now. There is no "empire" that rivals the United States. This is not a pre-Great War scenario.

  19. #99
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    Call me cold blooded or a terrible person if you want. I wish we would just nuke that entire region off the face of the planet and dare somebody to say something. You want to know why the United States was so effective in the first two world wars? Our military commanders were ruthless and used whatever tactics necessary to break people. I had a relative who told me a story about how they used to get information from Islamic extremists. They would dig holes and put them at the bottom and threaten to put a bullet in their skull followed by being drenched in pigs blood. Needless to say they got all the answers they were looking for and more.

  20. #100
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Who could have predicted that you would go straight from: 'ermahgerd we GOTTA do something, oooh the humanity!!!!' ...too 'yeaaaah lets start another war!!!' and then on too 'if you don't like it, you can git out!!'


    Not like that was predictable or anything......
    I suppose those with altruistic sentiments are predictable, then?

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