Should father have any say about abortion?

[Deleted]

At lest you don't need to worry about unwanted pregnancies, which is a bigger mood killer.

To be fair, if I got pregnant with my bf and he didn't want to have a kid then I probably wouldn't want to either. Would want my child to have a father that actually is a father and not someone who just pays money to you because he's forced to by the state. At the same time I would most likely not go through with an abortion if my bf wanted me to keep it aslong as he'd stay with me and be supporting

HOWEVER

I'd still like to have the control of my own body as opposed to being forced to give birth or being forced to abort.

[Tastyfish]

Sure, but your credit score just got ruined for life.

But it's about winning, rite?

[eternalwhitemoon]

WHy do you think the wives normally outlive the husband? Stress which does affect a person and is one of the leading causes of death in america. I watch my friends get bitched at for things that have nothing to do with anything they did because the wife is on the rag, what a excuse to be a ass. I guess that would also be on the reasons why the divorce rate is so high and why americans are having so few babies.

You made a false claim. You said that physically men go through everything a woman does during pregnancy, which is flat-out bullshit. I called you on that, and you give me this weak argument? I am telling you to retract that part of your statement.

However, I was even agreeing with you that sometimes a hormonal woman takes it out on their partner. I understand that. I even do it from time to time, and then I feel shitty about it because my poor husband deserves only the nicest kindest care. But he takes it like a trooper, knowing that it's because of what we've decided to do, and that's how it should be--not bitching about it to everyone on the internet. I tell you what, we'll dose you up with some of these hormones and see how friendly you feel. Would that be fair?

[isadorr]

But it's about winning, rite?

You never really win arguing with a female as she never stops and after a while most guys get bored so we stop lol.

[Tastyfish]

WHy do you think the wives normally outlive the husband? Stress which does affect a person and is one of the leading causes of death in america. I watch my friends get bitched at for things that have nothing to do with anything they did because the wife is on the rag, what a excuse to be a ass. I guess that would also be on the reasons why the divorce rate is so high and why americans are having so few babies.

Isadorr, I am going to give you a little weapon here.
It's called: Couvade syndrome

The nice part is that some people feel it's biological, others psychosomatic, but for the one suffering it, it is real.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 07:23 PM ----------

You made a false claim. You said that physically men go through everything a woman does during pregnancy

They can.
RE: Couvade syndrome


Edit: why is it important to know this? Because threw all these studies done on it, we can say that threw a pregnancy there is a chemical change in the male if he is present threw the proccess, and post partum. Why does this matter? Because the sexist game that, "the male suffers nothing" is not true, unless you don't believe in science.

[Vanyali]

does that spit change into a living breathing life form after 9 months?

you said it your self VOLUNTARY you know the risk, accept responsibility for it. The same as i would in the event i was to become a father. now your saying that if the woman doesn't want it then i have no say of becoming a father or not? yet if i don't want it i still have to become a father and accept responsibility for it? doesn't really seem fair

If it was broken down and went to another cell.. yes

your sperm doesn't change into a living breathing form, either. the sperm does its job and dies.

you cannot force a woman to stay pregnant so you can be a father. and being a father doesn't mean you're going to be forced to pay child support, though most likely you will. but again: if you can't trust the woman you're with to take YOUR opinion into consideration and to care about you past a one-night stand, why do you want to have a kid with her and be strapped to her for 18 years?

[eternalwhitemoon]

They can.
RE: Couvade syndrome

They can, and I actually forgot about hatching syndrome (thanks for that ), but it's not terribly common, certainly not common enough to base an argument of "men feel the same thing during pregnancy". If he'd said "occasionally" or "sometimes", then the statement would be partially true. However, even with couvade, not all of the symptoms of pregnancy are felt. His argument was that it's identical.

[Purlina]

But it's about winning, rite?

Who won? I think both parties just lost.

[Dispersedshadow]

They can: Couvade syndrome

But most oftentimes, they don't. That is, until eternalwhitemoon becomes Empress, then:

I tell you what, we'll dose you up with some of these hormones and see how friendly you feel.

[Fairelight]

If it was broken down and went to another cell.. yes

your sperm doesn't change into a living breathing form, either. the sperm does its job and dies.

you cannot force a woman to stay pregnant so you can be a father. and being a father doesn't mean you're going to be forced to pay child support, though most likely you will. but again: if you can't trust the woman you're with to take YOUR opinion into consideration and to care about you past a one-night stand, why do you want to have a kid with her and be strapped to her for 18 years?

i see where you are coming from now. I didn't take into consideration the "one night stand" thing. when i hook up with a chick i'm generally in it for the long haul. and if i was like that it is because i personally am anti abortion. I'm not a nazi about it i sure as hell wouldn't go to rally's and protest and that kinda crap. I don't call people who do murderers and all that other bullshit. i just personally feel it wrong. as far as i'm concerned if people don't want a kid from a one night stand then stop fucking strangers.

[isadorr]

You made a false claim. You said that physically men go through everything a woman does during pregnancy, which is flat-out bullshit. I called you on that, and you give me this weak argument? I am telling you to retract that part of your statement.

However, I was even agreeing with you that sometimes a hormonal woman takes it out on their partner. I understand that. I even do it from time to time, and then I feel shitty about it because my poor husband deserves only the nicest kindest care. But he takes it like a trooper, knowing that it's because of what we've decided to do, and that's how it should be--not bitching about it to everyone on the internet. I tell you what, we'll dose you up with some of these hormones and see how friendly you feel. Would that be fair?

No i have had my share of hormonal reasoning arguments and how women like to somehow find reasoning it. It can be controlled if the person is mature enough to find the ways and there are medications and other treatments available. I am glad your husband takes it like a champ. Now you saying you have no control over your hormones is something you should talk to your doctor about because it can be lessened and sometimes 100% less bitchy, imagine that.

You do see the divorce rate and marriage rate right? And the fewest babies being born in america? Care to take a guess why lol? Younger women who work out and arent interested in kids like old women are now who have kids. I wasnt bitching my inital statement that if men have to pay for 18 years of child support then they should have a say in the abortion or not to abort.

[Dasffion]

They can.
RE:[B] Couvade syndrome

They experience SOME of the symptoms. Not all of them. Mostly it's some weight gain and hormonal shifts though, nothing near what women experience.

That's beside though point though, and something that's not going to be an issue with a situation like this, along with the people saying that the Men have to "deal with the pregnant woman". In a situation like we're talking about most of the time the man and women aren't going to be together. If you can't come to an agreement on how to deal with a pregnancy I can almost guarantee you're not going to be in a relationship with the person anymore and thus not going to have to "deal with them". Pretty sure Couvade syndrome doesn't happen to men that only see pregnant women every so often.

[aeser]

the father should have a say, but the woman has ultimate say as she is who has to carry the baby to term or deal with the abortion at the end of the day. you shouldn't be able to order a woman to have your kid if she doesn't want to. in the reverse i should think if the man does not agree to have the kid they shouldn't be financially responsible for it simply because the woman decides to have it (you want to have it and he doesn't? good luck paying for it!)

[Tastyfish]

They can, and I actually forgot about hatching syndrome (thanks for that ), but it's not terribly common, certainly not common enough to base an argument of "men feel the same thing during pregnancy". If he'd said "occasionally" or "sometimes", then the statement would be partially true. However, even with couvade, not all of the symptoms of pregnancy are felt. His argument was that it's identical.

Yea it's not identical, unless you are the lucky guy with the type that makes you grow a pregger gut.. LOL
I agree there is a quantity difference in pain and what you have to deal with, but both parties when present get shit during the whole
proccess.


The thing you have to understand too is the, psychological aspect on a guy present with you during the whole thing.
Again its not = but the guilt of seeing your wife sick all the time, commonly creates a psychosomatic responce and you end up occupying the sink as often, as she is the toilet.
The key there is, A PRESENT male. You aren't suffering alone when you are not alone. ^_^

Edit:If some prick leaves you to your own devices, I'm sure he will never even get .0001% of whats going on, ya know?

[eternalwhitemoon]

Now you saying you have no control over your hormones is something you should talk to your doctor about because it can be lessened and sometimes 100% less bitchy, imagine that.

I think you missed the part where I qualified some of my statements with telling the thread that I am pregnant. This is why my moods are not their normal stable selves, and doctors tend not to like putting people on medication that isn't absolutely vital while pregnant. I don't have a hormonal "issue", I assure you, but thanks for the concern, anyway.

Also, when I referred to you "bitching", I wasn't meaning your initial argument of child support and abortion. I don't agree with your position, but I wouldn't call it bitching. However, I find that your statement that men go through physically and emotionally the same things as women to be erroneous, and your testimony of your friend on the rag to be either exaggerated or unfortunate, and you should not base all women off these samples that are in your immediate vicinity.

Also, the comment was directed not just at you, but at others who feel that it's so hard to deal with a pregnant woman that you might as well be considered pregnant yourself. How do you think we feel, going through the mood swings, knowing how we're affecting you? :P

I know it tears me to pieces sometimes.

[Jtbrig7390]

I think you missed the part where I qualified some of my statements with telling the thread that I am pregnant. This is why my moods are not their normal stable selves, and doctors tend not to like putting people on medication that isn't absolutely vital while pregnant. I don't have a hormonal "issue", I assure you, but thanks for the concern, anyway.

Also, when I referred to you "bitching", I wasn't meaning your initial argument of child support and abortion. I don't agree with your position, but I wouldn't call it bitching. However, I find that your statement that men go through physically and emotionally the same things as women to be erroneous, and your testimony of your friend on the rag to be either exaggerated or unfortunate, and you should not base all women off these samples that are in your immediate vicinity.

To derail the topic for one moment.

Congratz on the baby

[Deleted]

To be fair, if I got pregnant with my bf and he didn't want to have a kid then I probably wouldn't want to either. Would want my child to have a father that actually is a father and not someone who just pays money to you because he's forced to by the state. At the same time I would most likely not go through with an abortion if my bf wanted me to keep it aslong as he'd stay with me and be supporting.

+1, you're a good person in my eyes.

I'd still like to have the control of my own body as opposed to being forced to give birth or being forced to abort.

And I'd still like to have control over my income. Seems that we've come to an agreement, right?:

Legal document signed within the abortion time limit, and everyone can be happy

[isadorr]

I think you missed the part where I qualified some of my statements with telling the thread that I am pregnant. This is why my moods are not their normal stable selves, and doctors tend not to like putting people on medication that isn't absolutely vital while pregnant. I don't have a hormonal "issue", I assure you, but thanks for the concern, anyway.

Also, when I referred to you "bitching", I wasn't meaning your initial argument of child support and abortion. I don't agree with your position, but I wouldn't call it bitching. However, I find that your statement that men go through physically and emotionally the same things as women to be erroneous, and your testimony of your friend on the rag to be either exaggerated or unfortunate, and you should not base all women off these samples that are in your immediate vicinity.

If the male doesnt have to pay for the 18 years of child support then he also shouldnt have a say in the abortion. But if you are basically signing a cash agreement for 18 years and having no say in the matter then that is wrong imo. I do talk to the women i hook up with and tell them before we have sex that i dont want a baby or marriage. If i was to have another long relationship i would use a binding agreement and have actually joked with some lawyer friends of mine that have actually used one in a relationship.

Either way if a couple want to have a baby its great as long as they can afford it and it isnt pushed over to state help. Common financial sense.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 07:42 PM ----------

+1, you're a good person in my eyes.



And I'd still like to have control over my income. Seems that we've come to an agreement, right?:

Legal document signed within the abortion time limit, and everyone can be happy

Exactly. You want a baby then great, I like my money and dont plan on giving it away for 18 years as you knew i had no interest in having a baby. We go our seperate ways.

[eternalwhitemoon]

If the male doesnt have to pay for the 18 years of child support then he also shouldnt have a say in the abortion. But if you are basically signing a cash agreement for 18 years and having no say in the matter then that is wrong imo.

Then we can do something like this, then:

Legal document signed within the abortion time limit, and everyone can be happy

That way, if a man wants to opt out of child support and have nothing to do with the baby, then he can.

Hooray agreement!

(and unrelated, thanks Jtbrig, I just didn't want to make a special post responding to you because I didn't want to derail further )

[Tastyfish]

I
Also, the comment was directed not just at you, but at others who feel that it's so hard to deal with a pregnant woman that you might as well be considered pregnant yourself. How do you think we feel, going through the mood swings, knowing how we're affecting you? :P
.

Grats!

You know whats hard?
Pooping after drinking gallons of high fiber drinks.

Everything else is a cake walk.