Former Nazi SS guard fights deportation.

[Vuljatar]

Amen!

The blood of the innocent demands justice.

JUSTICE

JUSTICE...

Psy, you still freak me out and it freaks me out even more when you agree with something I say.

You're altogether too emotional about anything "unjust". Calm down.

[Remilia]

He was a guard at a death camp; he saw people as young as 4 years old being gassed and then shipped for incineration (soldiers do communicate and those working at the incinerators during the Final Solution almost undoubtedly would have spread word of what was happening) and stood by while they met their doom.

Stop acting like he was ignorant and blind to it all because that was almost certainly not the case.

Please back this up with fact.

[Priestiality]

I love your posts.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 10:25 PM ----------



Also, I like how you completely dodged my post earlier about your personal definition of justice.

All he does is dodge. He's like a TBC rogue with permanent evasion.

[LolretKJ]

He was a guard at a death camp; he saw people as young as 4 years old being gassed and then shipped for incineration (soldiers do communicate and those working at the incinerators during the Final Solution almost undoubtedly would have spread word of what was happening) and stood by while they met their doom.

Stop acting like he was ignorant and blind to it all because that was almost certainly not the case.

Why is this all of a sudden about him again?
You said that if you were there in his shoes, that you would try to liberate the camp.
I said bullshit, you don't have any idea what you would do because you weren't there, you weren't raised by his parents, you weren't subject to the same encounters as he was.

I never said he didn't know what was going on.

[Themius]

He was a guard at a death camp; he saw people as young as 4 years old being gassed and then shipped for incineration (soldiers do communicate and those working at the incinerators during the Final Solution almost undoubtedly would have spread word of what was happening) and stood by while they met their doom.

Stop acting like he was ignorant and blind to it all because that was almost certainly not the case.

May not have been blind to it, but what should he have done?

[TheGravemind]

You are one damn good hypocrite.

First you go on and on about how Hitler and Stallin never actually killed anyone but they're still murderers because they ordered the deaths of thousands, and now you say the nazi scientists have their hands clean of all the deaths their horrific experiments did. I suppose you will now say that Joseph Mengele is a saint that never actually killed anyone because he never actually did it himself.

Face the truth, those nazi scientists aided in the deaths of thousands, and they were still granted asylum and full pardon BY YOUR GOVERNMENT. Ditto for countless Gestapo officers, soviet scientists, and more.

Hey, when a mass murderer is useful to Uncle sam, lets cut them some slack, but when they're just honest folk trying to survive, lets show them our self-righteousness.

Right?

ROFL, another colossal strawman. Yes, I said that Hitler and Stalin never actually killed anyone directly themselves, but were still guilty for it BECAUSE THEY ENDORSED/AIDED/ABETTED the killing of the innocent.

^ This is NOT true of the scientists that the United States took in following the war as they did NOT (other than the manufacturers of Zyklon B whom we did not take in anyway) ENDORSE/AID/ABET the killing of innocent people. That is not hypocrisy; your misinterpretation of what I said, be it deliberate or by ignorance, makes you perceive it as hypocrisy which is laughable. What is more laughable is people in this thread applauding you for this obvious error, but I digress.

[LolretKJ]

All he does is dodge. He's like a TBC rogue with permanent evasion.

i c wat u did thar

[Doctor Amadeus]

You are one damn good hypocrite.

First you go on and on about how Hitler and Stallin never actually killed anyone but they're still murderers because they ordered the deaths of thousands, and now you say the nazi scientists have their hands clean of all the deaths their horrific experiments did. I suppose you will now say that Joseph Mengele is a saint that never actually killed anyone because he never actually did it himself.

Face the truth, those nazi scientists aided in the deaths of thousands, and they were still granted asylum and full pardon BY YOUR GOVERNMENT. Ditto for countless Gestapo officers, soviet scientists, and more.

Hey, when a mass murderer is useful to Uncle sam, lets cut them some slack, but when they're just honest folk trying to survive, lets show them our self-righteousness.

Right?

No, one thing has nothing to do with the other, you are misrepresenting position to defend your weak position. Allowing someone who could be useful to others and do some good despite being petty and only thinking of the punishment that could be inflicted, that is far less, than some Nazi Guard, who has no other value other than to himself alone, who isn't in a position to do anybody anything that doesn't serve him best.

The man is a criminal, and needs to be brought before a tribunal, not resting comfortable, knowing he will never see the justice he deserved for choices he made, just like we all do, but this isn't about anybody else, and your attempts to distract from the issue with hyperbole will not work.

[Themius]

None of those Nazi scientists were personally involved in or endorsed or aided/abetted the killing of innocent people other than the manufacturers of Zyklon B (who the United States did not take in after WW2 anyway.)

What did each scientist do? There were plenty of fucked up things going on.

[Priestiality]

May not have been blind to it, but what should he have done?

He should have gotten summarily executed for treason obviously. JUSTICE!

[TheGravemind]

May not have been blind to it, but what should he have done?

I believe I'll be saying this for the 4th time now: LIBERATE THE CAMP OR DIE TRYING (the former was more likely, though, as by what you posters say, most of the Wehrmacht/SS possessed "honor and integrity," so you can naturally infer that they would've helped the chap liberate the camp, correct?) rofl

[Aeluron Lightsong]

May not have been blind to it, but what should he have done?

No idea. I'd like to say I would be the Paragon of morality but I honestly don't know. This is a very extreme situation and who knows what would of happened. This is why the Nazi's were so scary. To forget that is to...take away the tragedy.

[Priestiality]

ROFL, another colossal strawman. Yes, I said that Hitler and Stalin never actually killed anyone directly themselves, but were still guilty for it BECAUSE THEY ENDORSED/AIDED/ABETTED the killing of the innocent.

^ This is NOT true of the scientists that the United States took in following the war as they did NOT (other than the manufacturers of Zyklon B whom we did not take in anyway) ENDORSE/AID/ABET the killing of innocent people. That is not hypocrisy; your misinterpretation of what I said, be it deliberate or by ignorance, makes you perceive it as hypocrisy which is laughable. What is more laughable is people in this thread applauding you for this obvious error, but I digress.

So, all those V2 rockets and not a single person was killed with them? So THAT'S why we took in Von Braun, not because he could get us to the moon before the Russians.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

He should have gotten summarily executed for treason obviously. JUSTICE!

I hate you for making me laugh.

[Priestiality]

I hate you for making me laugh.

I <3 you for laughing.

[Doctor Amadeus]

He should have gotten summarily executed for treason obviously. JUSTICE!

No, he should face justice like a man, and explain himself like everybody else, the victims and the legacy of that tragic event demands it. This isn't a sure fire death sentence or something, he will be given a FAIR trial, which is far more than he ever gave to any of those millions he helped to murder.

[madaghmire]

Personally, I feel like at this point any action taken against some 80 something year old man is at best punitive. It's closer to revenge then the pursuit of justice. I'm not saying that particularly bothers me, given my own family background, but I don't think we should lie to ourselves and get self-righteous about it.

Also, several posters have mentioned bombing actions taken by the US as being somehow or someway comparable to the concentration camps. This whole line of reasoning is patently absurd. The point of war is to destroy your opponents ability to wage it, and killing their mans is part of that. Civilians are a resource. They work in factories, they grow food, they grow and take up weapons and stop being civilians. Yes, this leads to some pretty horrific stuff. Lives destroyed, families and communities decimated, that sort of thing. War is horrible folks. It should be avoided at all costs. But there is a huge, huge difference in the horrors perpetrated by two sides at war, and the horrors perpetrated when the Nazi party rounded up any of its own citizens didn't fit the right racial, religious or health profile and systematically put them to death.

If you feel a need to compare the camps to something the US has done, the best analogy is the Japanese Internment Camps we set up. The conditions were only marginally, if at all better then the German ones, although at least we didn't start executing prisoners...well, en masse anyway. These were Japanese americans, often CITIZENS, whose property, business and assets were seized while they were sent to work camps.

You know, lots of folks died there too. Should we start rounding up any American soldiers who worked there? Maybe we can find some Justice in that.

While we're looking.

[Themius]

I believe I'll be saying this for the 4th time now: LIBERATE THE CAMP OR DIE TRYING (the former was more likely, though, as by what you posters say, most of the Wehrmacht/SS possessed "honor and integrity," so you can naturally infer that they would've helped the chap liberate the camp, correct?) rofl

There is a such thing as self preservation. If I was in that time and I was forced to join the Nazi's and I was in charge of a camp. I would feel horrible everyday, but I wouldn't want to lay down my life.

[Seezer]

He didn't kill anyone. Just because he was a guard at a camp does not mean he is a murderer. If you think he is a murderer just because he served as a guard, thats like saying all car companies and there staff are murderers because the cars they build and sell sometimes kill people.

Also Psyopz, aren't you some sort of pretend holy warrior obsessed with the military. If so, you should know that not all soldiers who serve under a banner have the same ideology as there masters.

How do you know he didn't kill anybody? Because he said so? Because that's what you want to believe?

You can't compare a regime that killed millions of people with the specific goal to wipe them out completely with a car company that car company is way out in left field. The car co isn't making people drive recklessly. Or making other cars hit them. Or making people drive them while drunk. That's ridiculous. And I'm sorry, but if you honestly think that a young SS soldier was going to defy orders and live to tell about it, you're mistaken.

The justice dept's lawyer said "I'm sorry — Mr. Geiser did engage in crimes against humanity". Not saying that makes it a fact, but I'm sure they have more evidence than you do. Just like at Nuremberg. Not all SS soldiers were convicted. Just the ones committing war crimes. There is a reason they are going after this guy. If he were just a harmless guard, they wouldn't be going through the trouble.

[LolretKJ]

ROFL, another colossal strawman. Yes, I said that Hitler and Stalin never actually killed anyone directly themselves, but were still guilty for it BECAUSE THEY ENDORSED/AIDED/ABETTED the killing of the innocent.

^ This is NOT true of the scientists that the United States took in following the war as they did NOT (other than the manufacturers of Zyklon B whom we did not take in anyway) ENDORSE/AID/ABET the killing of innocent people. That is not hypocrisy; your misinterpretation of what I said, be it deliberate or by ignorance, makes you perceive it as hypocrisy which is laughable. What is more laughable is people in this thread applauding you for this obvious error, but I digress.

Some of those scientists we took in are still alive and working at Government defense contractors, building missiles and other weapons.
Raytheon is the #1 producer of Tomahawk missiles. Before Raytheon was Raytheon, they were Hues aircraft, the company that Howard Hues started. He was known for hiring many of the Nazi and soviet scientists that developed the technology that went into the common day cruise missiles the United States use today.