Why its bad/good to click?

[zoefschildpad]

I was a clicker for a very long time, I tried keybinding several times (mostly building it up on new characters), but I found that even with the delay from moving the cursor, I was much faster clicking than I was using keybinds. I find that I have a lot more speed and precision in my right hand than I do in my left hand. and as a purely PvE player, I found that quick turns were all I needed almost all of the time and I hardly missed any time attacking.
Now I have a naga and it's all good, but if there has been an increase in my reaction time it has been very slight.

[Baltasar]

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 10:06 AM ----------



Those claiming to click, owning key binders, are liars.

You play on US,im on EU.Big difference i tell ya.

[Deleted]

I never understood this discussion.

I have my W key pressed with 1 finger while my other 4 are able to reach around keys 1-7 (main skills). I never use any other movement keys because i use my right mousekey to navigate in combination with W. You telling me there are actually people that click the skillbar they have? (keys 1-0-=)

[Terridon]

I never understood this discussion.

I have my W key pressed with 1 finger while my other 4 are able to reach around keys 1-7 (main skills). I never use any other movement keys because i use my right mousekey to navigate in combination with W. You telling me there are actually people that click the skillbar they have? (keys 1-0-=)

And saying it's just as good as using the keyboard, yes ^^
I don't get it either.
The argument for them is that since some percentage of the wow population use it, it can't be bad.
around 50% of the US population voted on something they didn't, hence making them being "wrong". If they can't even agree on that, how can a lower than 50% ever be argued to be right for them? :P

edit:
50% of those that actually voted >.<

[Zka]

For example...
http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/a...812_002122.png

Setup to raid and PvP heal right next to the healbox. 10x faster and the action is at eye level ingame, to force perpetual vision to see the action (a major problem with having buttons on the bottom of the screen, as the eyes are focus downward).

WOW! I cannot imagine any less efficient way to heal than click target, then click spell... You are losing TONS of time and cannot heal on the move.

[-Psypher-]

WOW! I cannot imagine any less efficient way to heal than click target, then click spell... You are losing TONS of time and cannot heal on the move.

In the time it takes him to click the target and then start clicking the heal, he'd already be through half his cast with a mouseover macro and binding. Click healing is HORRIBLE, and LFR is nothing more than going on safari with caged animals.

In regard to anecdotal evidence, it has it's purposes. Sustained heroic progression compared with normal modes or LFR raises the performance bar, and the realm of heroic progression focuses more on the "little" things that mean the difference between a wipe and a kill. Regular heroic raiders frequently review their spec, talents, gear, gems, enchants, rotations, methods, techniques, and abilities in order to eke out just 0.5% more DPS (times 18 DPS in a raid, that's 9% increased raidwide damage being done, not insignificant). If a few GCDs here and there are saved by keybinding, they do it. If they can move just that much faster to get more uptime on a boss fight, they figure out what to do in order to accomplish that. That means not keyboard turning, not click-casting, and keeping their eyes on the fight instead of on their mouse cursor.

It's akin to comparing high school (LFR), collegiate (normal) and professional-level (heroic) sports. The things you think are "ok" to do in HS change when you get to college, and then you find out they're downright wrong if you get picked for the pros. That is, if you want to be one of the best.

[marukale]

In the time it takes him to click the target and then start clicking the heal, he'd already be through half his cast with a mouseover macro and binding. Click healing is HORRIBLE, and LFR is nothing more than going on safari with caged animals.

In regard to anecdotal evidence, it has it's purposes. Sustained heroic progression compared with normal modes or LFR raises the performance bar, and the realm of heroic progression focuses more on the "little" things that mean the difference between a wipe and a kill. Regular heroic raiders frequently review their spec, talents, gear, gems, enchants, rotations, methods, techniques, and abilities in order to eke out just 0.5% more DPS (times 18 DPS in a raid, that's 9% increased raidwide damage being done, not insignificant). If a few GCDs here and there are saved by keybinding, they do it. If they can move just that much faster to get more uptime on a boss fight, they figure out what to do in order to accomplish that. That means not keyboard turning, not click-casting, and keeping their eyes on the fight instead of on their mouse cursor.

It's akin to comparing high school (LFR), collegiate (normal) and professional-level (heroic) sports. The things you think are "ok" to do in HS change when you get to college, and then you find out they're downright wrong if you get picked for the pros. That is, if you want to be one of the best.

To use anecdotal evidence you have to take into account perception bias. If it is perceived as better to do something then typically anecdotal evidence will show that the top performers will do it.

For example it was perceived that tall athletes do not make as good sprinters as short athletes, that makes it harder for tall athletes to get accepted by good coaches and results in very few tall sprinters in professional competitions. The fact that Usain Bolt is much taller than the rest of his piers has brought the perception into question.

There was a post (maybe a tweet) recently about class performance and how top players will choose the spec that is deemed best and so results in the worse specs looking much worse than they actually are.

If the top 100 players are keybinders, does that mean that keybinding is better, or just that they believe the common perception that it is better and they want to be the best.

Anecdotal evidence must always be treated with care, and is why most scientific papers will try to avoid drawing any conclusion from it.

[Orange Joe]

In the time it takes him to click the target and then start clicking the heal, he'd already be through half his cast with a mouseover macro and binding. Click healing is HORRIBLE, and LFR is nothing more than going on safari with caged animals.

He is also waiting on the GCD and cast from the previous spell so what is your point?

[Toxigen]

Anyone else find it odd someone is writing a research paper on this?

Clickers are either bad, lazy, and/or have no desire to improve their play. They do their dailies, LFR, maybe some normal mode raiding (or completely over-nerfed heroic mode like DS), and some rando BGs / < 1500 rating Arena.

There is a reason a lot of upper-echelon guild applications include a request to list all keybindings and a picture of your UI.

I'm baffled as to how the OP is going to turn this topic into a legitimate research paper.

[Ravenstalons]

Anyone else find it odd someone is writing a research paper on this?

Clickers are either bad, lazy, and/or have no desire to improve their play. They do their dailies, LFR, maybe some normal mode raiding (or completely over-nerfed heroic mode like DS), and some rando BGs / < 1500 rating Arena.

There is a reason a lot of upper-echelon guild applications include a request to list all keybindings and a picture of your UI.

I'm baffled as to how the OP is going to turn this topic into a legitimate research paper.

Using key bindings or clicking shouldn't be your deciding factor on saying someone is fail or not. I've seen plenty of key binders diaf because they aren't paying attention.
The only drawback of clicking is reaction times in most cases, because you have to look at what your clicking and not what's going on.

So the same can be said about keybinders being, as you say, "bad, lazy or no desire to improve their play".

[TheSerialSniper]

I have played wow since launch and always used keybinds (i played the Age of Empires 2 competitively before comming to wow)

I have clicked before for reasons, and sometimes click when I feel like enjoying the game more. Let me get this clear, from a PvP/SERIOUS raiding perspective, there are little to no advantages of clicking. But there are in other regards.

Advantages to clicking.

1st off, using click to move as a keybinder can actually be a boon (this is the little advantage) because it allows you to focus on your rotation and your surroundings better while moving, if used right.

2nd The learning curve for a players new to games using a keyboard is greatly reduced. (clicking is a great place to start, but is just that if you are serious about gaming on a pc)

3rd Allows for chatting in game while battling, it is not possible to type in chat and use keybinds at the same time, but you can still click your abilities

4th A veteran clicker should be able to play the game with one hand, allowing him a free hand to do whatever he wants to with <.<

I do not feel like I need to list the advantages to keybindings since everyone else has done that so well.

[-Psypher-]

He is also waiting on the GCD and cast from the previous spell so what is your point?

You can't start a new cast unless you use a stopcasting macro, which, while very limited in scope regarding use in healing, isn't recommended for any healers (it's 99% of the time best to just finish a cast and then get on with it).

What my point was, is that he currently:

1) Moves his mouse over the raid frame of his heal recipient.
2) Then he clicks on said raid frame in order to make it his current active target.
3) Then he moves his mouse to a healing ability.
4) Then he clicks his mouse to start the heal.

With keybinding/mouseover macros, he simply:

1) Moves his mouse over the raid frame of his heal recipient.
2) Presses his keybind for the mouseover macro, which starts the heal.

You tell me which is faster and more efficient.

Lastly, you can't use mouseover macros if you're a clicker. It is impossible.

[TheSerialSniper]

Sorry but math nerd in me has to correct your math. Vindican, if every Dps in the raid is doing 100,000k then 18 dps is 1,800,000. 1 dps doing .5% more would take raid dps to 1,800,500 a .027% increase to raid dps for that 1 person increasing his dps by .5%.All 18 dps increasing their dps by .5% would increase total raid dps by .5% (1,800,000 to 1,809,000).

[Smango]

I have most of the spells I used all the time mapped to my mouse buttons or within reaching distance of my left hand. 1234 Shift-1234

I have the WoW steelseries cataclysm mouse with a ton of buttons, so I use that also, actually more than what I use my keyboard bindings actually.
It's superfast for me to just move and use the buttons on the mouse.

Just click crap you don't use a lot no sense in taking up buttons you don't need to get to quick.

[-Psypher-]

Sorry but math nerd in me has to correct your math. Vindican, if every Dps in the raid is doing 100,000k then 18 dps is 1,800,000. 1 dps doing .5% more would take raid dps to 1,800,500 a .027% increase to raid dps for that 1 person increasing his dps by .5%.All 18 dps increasing their dps by .5% would increase total raid dps by .5% (1,800,000 to 1,809,000).

You are correct. I didn't get enough sleep last night. =/

While my math was wrong (stupid obvious now, lol), my point still stands, as anyone who's suffered through crazy sub-1% wipes can attest to. I once experienced a 0.01% progression wipe on Al'Akir. That SUCKED (and my math WAS right then!)

Basically, more (DPS, uptime, efficiency) is more.

[marukale]

Anyone else find it odd someone is writing a research paper on this?

Clickers are either bad, lazy, and/or have no desire to improve their play. They do their dailies, LFR, maybe some normal mode raiding (or completely over-nerfed heroic mode like DS), and some rando BGs / < 1500 rating Arena.

There is a reason a lot of upper-echelon guild applications include a request to list all keybindings and a picture of your UI.

I'm baffled as to how the OP is going to turn this topic into a legitimate research paper.

I'm assuming that this isn't a research paper that would be put up for review, but rather one to show he can write a paper, in which case you can write a paper on almost anything. Although most times what people are looking for is critical analysis of established papers which on this topic is going to be hard as you have to twist existing human interface research papers quite heavily to fit the topic in the first place, which makes the critical analysis harder.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 10:00 AM ----------

Lastly, you can't use mouseover macros if you're a clicker. It is impossible.

This does raise the interesting point of at what point is someone a clicker, it is very possible to have a single mouseover macro bound to mouse button but click everything else. At that point are they a clicker or a keybinder? On the other extreme, I have mouse over macros for healing but still click for a very limited number of abilities, the main one being bloodlust, I use geist so clicking is quick and easy. The other abilities I click are ones which I vary rarely use in combot such as buffs that should have been applied before the fight starts. So how do you define a clicker? Someone who always clicks, someone who clicks the majority of the time or someone who clicks at least once on a fight?

[Deleted]

Clicking is naturally inefficient - it requires multiple motor actions from the brain to achieve a single input to the game. Clicking requires an arm and hand movement to position the cursor over the ability (in addition to a visual coordination from the eyes) followed by a finger movement to click the mouse. Keybindings require one single motor action - finger pressing key. More efficient method of input. Example - Why does the keyboard exist? If mouse clicking was efficient we'd be typing by clicking buttons on the screen instead of using a keyboard.

Clicking can't easily be done with your eyes closed because you have to ensure the mouse cursor is in the correct place. Therefore clicking requires more brain activity and power to achieve, drawing more brain power away from other aspects of the game.

Clicking ties up the mouse cursor and makes it harder to do other things at the same time such as movement while panning/looking around with the camera. Important basic requirement for raiding.

Clicking is perceived by the WoW community to be "newbish" for good or for worse. If you're deciding between one or the other, go for keybinds and soon you'll be used to it. You don't want to be putting up Fraps videos showing the world you're a clicker

All that said - I know one or two clickers and they play their classes very well so really it's all down to personal preference. If you're a clicker already, if you're comfortable with it and it doesn't affect your performance then why fix what isn't broken. If you're deciding whether to go clicking or keybinds (e.g. on a new character) I'd always go down the keybindings route. I doubt there are many keybinders who wish they went clicking.

[-Psypher-]

This does raise the interesting point of at what point is someone a clicker, it is very possible to have a single mouseover macro bound to mouse button but click everything else. At that point are they a clicker or a keybinder? On the other extreme, I have mouse over macros for healing but still click for a very limited number of abilities, the main one being bloodlust, I use geist so clicking is quick and easy. The other abilities I click are ones which I vary rarely use in combot such as buffs that should have been applied before the fight starts. So how do you define a clicker? Someone who always clicks, someone who clicks the majority of the time or someone who clicks at least once on a fight?

As a former clicker (now reformed), I feel I can shed some light onto this situation. Of course, standard caveats and all that - this is my personal experience, and should be taken with a grain of salt (and a lime and shot of Cuervo).

I define a clicker as someone who routinely and consistently activates regularly used abilities (as part of a rotation), for most, if not all, of their non-cooldowns.

I define a keybinder as someone who has bound every ability in their rotation (or the entire gamut of healing and tanking abilities), but may still click on things such as 1+ minute cooldowns (trinkets, the standard 2-3m DPS CDs, etc.) For things such as Bloodlust, Time Warp, etc., those abilities are ideal for being non-bound to prevent accidental discharge or premature elustulation (we've all experienced it at some point... you're just standing there, listening to your raid leader talk, buffing up, and all of a sudden... RAWRAWRAWRAWRAWRAWR!). Those things should go somewhere else, in an easily accessible but unbound place (or bind them, but place them nowhere near your regular bindings - the numpad is a good place for those).

I raided Top-100 US for a time in TBC as a clicker. So it is possible to succeed with this mindset, but things weren't as varied as they are now. I was a destruction warlock who scrollcasted. Me clicking was putting dots and curses up, then spamming my mousewheel for shadowbolt spam. Anything other than shadowbolt was moved to, and clicked on.

Now I'm a keybinder (the button gaming mice introduced since WoW's inception have been a miracle for me, as I couldn't quite grasp binding on my keyboard). I have, through practice, been able to bind 1 through 12 with both shift and, depending on ability, control modifiers. As such, as I have three full rows of action bars I'm able to activate without needing to look down at my bars aside from noticing time remaining, and can keep my eyes on the action.

Before: Staring at buttons/bars the majority of the time, and glancing up at the action.
Now: Staring at the action the majority of the time, and glancing at my bars.

I'd like to get to the point where I can hide the bars I've bound, but I like the visual reinforcement they provide in case I have a brain fart and forget, for whatever reason, my binding for a particular ability.

Now, to make this even more interesting - does anyone find any validity in the following statement?

Former clickers make for better healers since they're used to looking at (action bars/health bars) and glancing at mechanics in an encounter.

[Drdraenei]

Since you’re doing some kind of paper you could try this as an experiment. Type your name into a word doc and time yourself, then use the onscreen keyboard to type your name and time yourself.

As a healer I am practically active for 99% plus of a fight, so if I had to click on someone in the raid and then click a spell our raids would have zero chance of survival, especially since they are now 2 healable, if that is a word.

I used to click in TBC on a warrior tank (apart from spamming 1234 on keyboard) and it wasn't that bad, in Wrath I moved to a shaman healer and used Healbot, now I use Grid and mouse over macros and the difference is unbelievable.

I now use key binds for almost every ability, with the exception of the useless ones and the super important ones like heroism. The only reason I do not key bind heroism is there have been too many mistaken casts of heroism. I've tried giving it different key binds, but I cannot seem to get one I can reach without putting something else out.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 04:39 PM ----------

As a former clicker (now reformed), I feel I can shed some light onto this situation. Of course, standard caveats and all that - this is my personal experience, and should be taken with a grain of salt (and a lime and shot of Cuervo).

I define a clicker as someone who routinely and consistently activates regularly used abilities (as part of a rotation), for most, if not all, of their non-cooldowns.

I define a keybinder as someone who has bound every ability in their rotation (or the entire gamut of healing and tanking abilities), but may still click on things such as 1+ minute cooldowns (trinkets, the standard 2-3m DPS CDs, etc.) For things such as Bloodlust, Time Warp, etc., those abilities are ideal for being non-bound to prevent accidental discharge or premature elustulation (we've all experienced it at some point... you're just standing there, listening to your raid leader talk, buffing up, and all of a sudden... RAWRAWRAWRAWRAWRAWR!). Those things should go somewhere else, in an easily accessible but unbound place (or bind them, but place them nowhere near your regular bindings - the numpad is a good place for those).

I raided Top-100 US for a time in TBC as a clicker. So it is possible to succeed with this mindset, but things weren't as varied as they are now. I was a destruction warlock who scrollcasted. Me clicking was putting dots and curses up, then spamming my mousewheel for shadowbolt spam. Anything other than shadowbolt was moved to, and clicked on.

Now I'm a keybinder (the button gaming mice introduced since WoW's inception have been a miracle for me, as I couldn't quite grasp binding on my keyboard). I have, through practice, been able to bind 1 through 12 with both shift and, depending on ability, control modifiers. As such, as I have three full rows of action bars I'm able to activate without needing to look down at my bars aside from noticing time remaining, and can keep my eyes on the action.

Before: Staring at buttons/bars the majority of the time, and glancing up at the action.
Now: Staring at the action the majority of the time, and glancing at my bars.

I'd like to get to the point where I can hide the bars I've bound, but I like the visual reinforcement they provide in case I have a brain fart and forget, for whatever reason, my binding for a particular ability.

Now, to make this even more interesting - does anyone find any validity in the following statement?

Former clickers make for better healers since they're used to looking at (action bars/health bars) and glancing at mechanics in an encounter.

I couldn't agree more with what you have just said, it's like it came from the same brain! Did you steal my thoughts?

[Volbian]

honestly as i have said before, it all depends on how you memorize your abilities. if you know where everything is then you can reach the "oh shit" cooldown that you need with a twitch of the thumb no matter where it is and then click it. the entire process takes 0.1 seconds to realize what ability is needed and another 0.1 seconds to travel and click. it all depends on how well you know what you are doing.

also just thought of something, keybinds must be hard on altaholics. basically have to relearn what buttons do what when you switch to the one you haven't used in a while.

^This. Another reason why i think clicking is better then keybinds. And yes it is MY preference also.

So far from reading all these posts. There is NO solid proof that keybinds are better than clicking or vice versa. All i'm reading is opinions on why a certain preference is better. You say Keybinds is faster reaction...PROVE IT. You cant, these are just words and experiences people have. It also comes down to reflexes and your own personal agility. When i type, i chicken peck everything VS someone who uses 2 hands. I'm sure at 50wpm, theyre certain people i can beat, theyre also certain people i cant. Does it make it wrong?? No, its a preference and something youve been accustomed to for a very long time. So long, that its just natural thing.

As WE all say in-game. "PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN". Prove keybinds are better and vice versa, and not personal experiences.

Added: Also consider ALL factors such as: Not everyone has fast PCs, not everyone's hands are built the same(long fingers VS short stubby fingers), not everyone has a 300 button mouse.