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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    As Yriel put is more finely, you cannot hold an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a few, especially when so many of that group has nothing to do with it.
    when its such a small group yes you can. they werent accusing a whole race of people just a small organization within a city
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  2. #242
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    when its such a small group yes you can. they werent accusing a whole race of people just a small organization within a city
    no, it was an outright attack on who Jaina classed as those loyal to the horde, even those who stood firmly with dalaran, but held ties to silvermoon.
    #boycottchina

  3. #243
    I can't believe after seeing what Jaina did, people can still call her sane. She walked right into the Violet Hold, killed Aethas's bodyguards, (where was their choice to surrender?) and then locked Aethas up because he said that it was "our city too". They killed the shopkeepers who didn't know why the Sunreavers were being exiled. They even seized all the Sunreaver's possessions they had in the banks.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Sunreavers should be trained as Spellbreakers to combat the archmages of Dalaran. It'll keep Aethas relevant since his only role was member of the Six.

  4. #244
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Daelin Proudmoore View Post
    I can't believe after seeing what Jaina did, people can still call her sane. She walked right into the Violet Hold, killed Aethas's bodyguards, (where was their choice to surrender?) and then locked Aethas up because he said that it was "our city too". They killed the shopkeepers who didn't know why the Sunreavers were being exiled. They even seized all the Sunreaver's possessions they had in the banks.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Sunreavers should be trained as Spellbreakers to combat the archmages of Dalaran. It'll keep Aethas relevant since his only role was member of the Six.
    Like say, Jaina's fallen into the same kind of catagory as Arthas once did, killing not just defenders but civilians.

    I honestly couldn't be put off by the direction they took her. I mean having her become a stronger role is one thing, but they just didn't stop, and made her into the thing she hates.
    #boycottchina

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing Turkey View Post
    Jaina just wanted to put them in prison, they didn't surrender and chose to fight back, isn't that what we all (Alliance and Horde) do every day.. kill things that try to kill us? :P
    I play horde, so I had to watch the video, but most of the sunreavers were just shaking with their hands up and running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Hardly fighting back. There were a few that were aggressive, I'll give you that. The shop keepers though? And the Sunreavers at the start that Jaina killed, that were kinda just standing there? Explain that. I'm not saying that she shouldn't feel betrayed and that anyone she thought was guilty should be jailed. It was pretty much genocide, very similar(yet less destructive) to the Theramore event. It seems as though she's given up on the thought of peace. I'm hoping she eventually takes the her aggression straight to Gorrash, where it belongs.

  6. #246
    Stood in the Fire Dragonix80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Like say, Jaina's fallen into the same kind of catagory as Arthas once did, killing not just defenders but civilians.

    I honestly couldn't be put off by the direction they took her. I mean having her become a stronger role is one thing, but they just didn't stop, and made her into the thing she hates.
    Exactly how I feel about Jaina. Jaina have became one cold-hearted bitch and the very monster she hates.

  7. #247
    The best part about this whole thread is the amount of people that think there is some code of honor in the world that stops people from kill "innocent people". There a pretty good reason soldiers don't care to talk about war when they get back and most have serious PTSD. In war there are no innocent people, because the cycle of hate continues until there is no one left. If you don't believe me, kill an enemy soldier in front of their child and see what happens........

  8. #248
    The sunreavers, after members of their own organization helped with the destruction of Theramore, should have been more conscious about assisting Garrosh again and monitoring themselves. There was no excuse for the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the divine bell for Garrosh. No good could have come from that. Jaina imprisoned the sunreavers after they refused to leave, and only the ones who resisted were killed. Garrosh is a threat to the world, assisting him is not acceptable, after betraying Jaina and Dalaran the sunreavers no longer belong there.

    Jaina tried to stay neutral, but getting stabbed in the back from people within Dalaran, again, is not okay.

  9. #249
    Stood in the Fire Dragonix80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The sunreavers, after members of their own organization helped with the destruction of Theramore, should have been more conscious about assisting Garrosh again and monitoring themselves. There was no excuse for the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the divine bell for Garrosh. No good could have come from that. Jaina imprisoned the sunreavers after they refused to leave, and only the ones who resisted were killed. Garrosh is a threat to the world, assisting him is not acceptable, after betraying Jaina and Dalaran the sunreavers no longer belong there.

    Jaina tried to stay neutral, but getting stabbed in the back from people within Dalaran, again, is not okay.
    The problem with your statement is you assumed everyone associated with the Sunreavers are guilty as charged. You fully know that this isn't true. There were only two spies who performed this action which resulted in the destruction of Theramore, not everyone.

    Trassk said this the best:
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    As Yriel put is more finely, you cannot hold an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a few, especially when so many of that group has nothing to do with it.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The sunreavers, after members of their own organization helped with the destruction of Theramore, should have been more conscious about assisting Garrosh again and monitoring themselves. There was no excuse for the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the divine bell for Garrosh. No good could have come from that. Jaina imprisoned the sunreavers after they refused to leave, and only the ones who resisted were killed. Garrosh is a threat to the world, assisting him is not acceptable, after betraying Jaina and Dalaran the sunreavers no longer belong there.

    Jaina tried to stay neutral, but getting stabbed in the back from people within Dalaran, again, is not okay.
    exactly people are acting like the sunreavers made up some big portion of dalaran and that there were a bunch of civies when outside of the sunreavers at this point there were virtually no horde inside dalaran and outside of the occasional ambassador they werent welcome there.

    the sunreavers are/were a MILITARY group of magi and a small minority within the city at that which not once but twice were caught with there pants down helping garrosh.

    what jaina did is completely justifiable and is far from arthas at all did she and a couple high elves go a bit overboard? yes but if anyone has the right to go a bit overboard with garrosh spies its jaina
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The sunreavers, after members of their own organization helped with the destruction of Theramore, should have been more conscious about assisting Garrosh again and monitoring themselves. There was no excuse for the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the divine bell for Garrosh. No good could have come from that. Jaina imprisoned the sunreavers after they refused to leave, and only the ones who resisted were killed. Garrosh is a threat to the world, assisting him is not acceptable, after betraying Jaina and Dalaran the sunreavers no longer belong there.

    Jaina tried to stay neutral, but getting stabbed in the back from people within Dalaran, again, is not okay.
    She didn't try to stay neutral. By sealing off Darnassus to stop Garrosh from getting the Divine Bell, she was no longer acting as a neutral entity.

    She really gave Aethas's guards a choice to leave or surrender, huh? From what I saw, she imprisoned Aethas for arguing with her and then had a Sunreaver magister killed when he went to the bank to gather his goods and escape.

    This is what I found on Wowpedia, "In the aftermath of the conflict, the Sunreavers come to hold Garrosh (whose agents in the organization led to the purge to begin with) just as responsible for their removal from Dalaran as Jaina herself."
    Last edited by McCulloch; 2012-12-13 at 03:44 AM.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonix80 View Post
    The problem with your statement is you assumed everyone associated with the Sunreavers are guilty as charged. You fully know that this isn't true. There were only two spies who performed this action which resulted in the destruction of Theramore, not everyone.

    Trassk said this the best:
    thats all fine and dandy until it happens a 3rd time stop acting like she put them all up for execution she locked them up for question and/or exile she only killed the ones who were trying to resist.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 10:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Daelin Proudmoore View Post
    She didn't try to stay neutral. By sealing off Darnassus to stop Garrosh from getting the Divine Bell, she was no longer acting as a neutral entity.

    She really gave Aethas's guards a choice to leave or surrender, huh? From what I saw, she imprisoned Aethas for arguing with her and then had a Sunreaver magister killed when he went to the bank to gather his goods and escape.
    actually that makes her MORE neutral because allowing the enemy to use alliance portals would be the same thing as what dar'khan did when he allowed the scourge into quel'thalas
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  13. #253
    Herald of the Titans Synros's Avatar
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    I like it. Its time to show that the Alliance aren't going to be push overs anymore. The Horde deserves to have a massive blow done to their kind.
    ON WEDNESDAYS WE WEAR PINK

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    thats all fine and dandy until it happens a 3rd time stop acting like she put them all up for execution she locked them up for question and/or exile she only killed the ones who were trying to resist.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 10:43 PM ----------



    actually that makes her MORE neutral because allowing the enemy to use alliance portals would be the same thing as what dar'khan did when he allowed the scourge into quel'thalas
    I don't follow your logic there. Purposefully bulking up security on one factions city in an attempt to block another faction is now an act of neutrality?

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonix80 View Post
    The problem with your statement is you assumed everyone associated with the Sunreavers are guilty as charged. You fully know that this isn't true. There were only two spies who performed this action which resulted in the destruction of Theramore, not everyone.

    Trassk said this the best:
    Their organization seems too corrupt to keep them in Dalaran, when this is the second time this has happened. Jaina had given the Sunreavers a warning after Theramore, and this time more were involved. It would have been better had they left when she asked them too. If she can't trust the people in Dalaran to do the right thing, specifically from the sunreavers, they shouldn't be there. Garrosh's influence doesn't belong in Dalaran.

    It was wrong of the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the Divine bell for a Tyrant to use as he pleases. Even if it is a portion of the sunreavers who are aligned with Garrosh, Jaina doesn't really have time to let Garrosh loyalists to plot and further corrupt Dalaran from the inside. They really should have thought of their organization first before assisting Garrosh, especially after Theramore.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Daelin Proudmoore View Post
    I don't follow your logic there. Purposefully bulking up security on one factions city in an attempt to block another faction is now an act of neutrality?
    sorry i misread your post i thought you were talking about the sunreavers who broke into the high elven quarter and used darnasus portals to send horde troops in
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  17. #257
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Daelin Proudmoore View Post
    I don't follow your logic there. Purposefully bulking up security on one factions city in an attempt to block another faction is now an act of neutrality?
    Pre-purge, Dalaran's neutrality was that they wouldn't join one side or the other in an attack against the other. They'd help defend though.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    Their organization seems too corrupt to keep them in Dalaran, when this is the second time this has happened. Jaina had given the Sunreavers a warning after Theramore, and this time more were involved. It would have been better had they left when she asked them too. If she can't trust the people in Dalaran to do the right thing, specifically from the sunreavers, they shouldn't be there. Garrosh's influence doesn't belong in Dalaran.

    It was wrong of the Sunreavers to use their place in Dalaran to break into Darnassus and steal the destructive power of the Divine bell for a Tyrant to use as he pleases. Even if it is a portion of the sunreavers who are aligned with Garrosh, Jaina doesn't really have time to let Garrosh loyalists to plot and further corrupt Dalaran from the inside. They really should have thought of their organization first before assisting Garrosh, especially after Theramore.
    Jaina broke neutrality first. I'll keep repeating that if I have to.

    She didn't give them a choice. When a Sunreaver magister went to the bank to collect his goods and leave, he was killed by Alliance adventurers.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Daelin Proudmoore View Post
    She didn't try to stay neutral. By sealing off Darnassus to stop Garrosh from getting the Divine Bell, she was no longer acting as a neutral entity.

    She really gave Aethas's guards a choice to leave or surrender, huh? From what I saw, she imprisoned Aethas for arguing with her and then had a Sunreaver magister killed when he went to the bank to gather his goods and escape.

    This is what I found on Wowpedia, "In the aftermath of the conflict, the Sunreavers come to hold Garrosh (whose agents in the organization led to the purge to begin with) just as responsible for their removal from Dalaran as Jaina herself."
    I believe she was trying to keep a dangerous weapon out of the hands of a mad man, Darnassus wasn't going to be using that. Neutral organizations exist for the good of the world, that's why they usually stay out of horde and alliance conflicts and only work against true threats.

    The guards I don't know about, I don't know why they were standing in front of the stairs in battle position either. I don't know why Aethas didn't even seem to care when she killed three of them. She asked Aethas to leave, and he refused, in kind of an arrogant way (I don't know if that was intended but that's how it came across with the voice acting). So he was imprisoned because Jaina doesn't want Garrosh's influence in the city, and the Sunreavers have helped him yet again.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Pre-purge, Dalaran's neutrality was that they wouldn't join one side or the other in an attack against the other. They'd help defend though.
    Under what circumstances do you think Jaina would have protected Orgrimmar if she thought the Alliance would attempt to break in and steal the Divine Bell?

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