Do you think Blizzard listens to feedback anymore?

[Deleted]

Kinda too often in interviews and blue posts I read Blizz representatives saying things like: "We like it this way", "We're fine with this", "We didn't liked it". We=Blizzard. Rarely I read them talking about "Players wanted", "Players liked/disliked", "We changed it because players asked to". They only seem to care about players' opinions when there is real threat they might unsubscribe, otherwise they treat any feedback as pointless whining of 5yo.

[Leonard McCoy]

Sounds to me like you're bored of MMOs.

I still can't understand why after all that complaining about WoW and Diablo3 I saw you do months ago you still bought MoP. You were bored of Cata. You hated D3. But you still bought MoP and now you're bored of MoP. I can't imagine Blizzard doing anything to appease you at this point, but I have a feeling you're going to buy the next expansion anyway and then complain about it on the forums, too.

I may purchase the next expansion, it really depends what they do. Check it out I bought sc2 and still play it regularly and plan on buying HoTS because I enjoyed the Sc2 experience. I bought d3 an ddidn't like it so I don't plan on buying any more expansions. I've played in every wow expansion for the past 6 years and fully expected to be entertained by this one but wasn't. I don't see what the problem is? Furthermore who said I was bored of cata? Yes I was bored of waiting 7 months in between raid tiers but who wasn't? That doesn't mean I wanted Blizzard to make the game grindier or make dailies such a big part of it or put all that valor gear behind them. That meant I wanted them to release content faster. That's it. That's what it means for alot of people when they say were bored Blizzard. Please tell me what complaints I made about wow months ago. Aside from talent trees (which I will fully and freely admit I've warmed to) and pandas themselves being cheesy (which I still feel they are but could live with) I don't recall complaining on this forum about Cataclysm.

[Materblaster]

They dont listen to much of anything these days.

[Leonard McCoy]

That may be your opinion. However, I thought the MF dailies were actually really well done, and had a blast with them. I've never liked any dailies during any previous expansion (NOTE - I have not done any amount of dailies in MoP yet since they are not needed for my playstyle - raiding. So I have no comment on the quality of MoP dailies). MF was the only time I really had fun doing them. And there was a ton of positive feedback from the community on those dailies.

It all comes down to subjective opinion.

What I find puzzling is that everyone insisting they were bored in cataclysm overlooks the dozens of potential dailies you could have been doing in cataclysm and yet...

[Materblaster]

The dailys that they have come out with are just outrageous. People complain and still yet to them for achievements, rep, and or gear which a lot of raiding guilds dont need anymore at this point.

[Deleted]

This is what happens when a company makes a product based entirely on customer feedback. Also note Razer's $2000 laptop stuffed into a tablet.

[Leonard McCoy]

This is what happens when a company makes a product based entirely on customer feedback. Also note Razer's $2000 laptop stuffed into a tablet.

Interesting. I trust that the developers have more respect for their fanbase and don't consider their average fan a homer simpson. Or maybe they do think everyone is that stupid and ignorant. Would explain alot.

[Nanaboostme]

too much ignorance in OPs thread. dont even know where to start...

also just added ' huge uproar ' to my list of annoying terms

[Deleted]

they never did.
only react at the loss of subscription

[Goatfish]

Cross realm game play populates the open world : 1: CRZ is just the first step. Just like the first steps in cross server LFG play both in BG's 2006 or dungeon only play (2009).

2: The argument that WOW is still played many many times more than any game that is F2P because it has ... a subscription fee is a good one.

1: You don't serve someone raw cake batter and tell them "Don't worry, this is just the first step to a delicious cake in the future!" You don't release unfinished projects onto live just to mess around. The better and more feasible current option is merging servers and free transfers, because none of the other plans are finished, and just throwing unfinished product at your playerbase and telling them that everything is fine is a terrible design and business choice.

2: League of Legends, heard of it? I hear it's a F2P game with more different people playing it per day than WoW has total subscribers. I also hear that it logs 1 Billion hours played per month, Which I would be surprised if WoW matched as it would mean every single WoW subscriber would need to log 100 hours a month, or 3+ hours daily. Something most casual players (the majority of the playerbase) do not do.

By your logic, Google internet is going to fail in Kansas City because the regular shitty isp's there are going to force you to pay for the same internet you can get for free from Google.

Just kinda flabbergasted how some people are calling CRZ seamless, odd blue twing (what is this quantum leap?) rubberbanding, the fact you can't see someone 2 inches away across a invisible zone line, might as well just put in a loading please wait screen (give me a nice EQ old feel).. now screwed up the cool-downs and resets 6AM EST kinda sucks and my dam 2 person rocket is still dropping people.

EQ load screens were the best. They might have lasted 5 minutes a pop, but the 'hints and tips' on each screen were the best. "Sanding wood elves...now 37% smoother!", "Now Spawning Fippy_Darkpaw_432,326,312", and my favorite: "Teaching snakes to kick..."

[yjmark]

What I find puzzling is that everyone insisting they were bored in cataclysm overlooks the dozens of potential dailies you could have been doing in cataclysm and yet...

Your response makes no sense since I never mentioned that the MF dailies were supposed to be the sole thing that kept the playerbase occupied for the entire expansion. It really feels like you just enjoy trolling since you tend to ignore posts that you quote, and just blindly and randomly complain.

[yuca247]

Yea they do.

Someone somewhere will always find something to complain about no matter what Blizzard does and claim they don't listen to their feedback because Blizz does not make the changes they want.

[Silver-Fox]

I do believe Blizzard listens. They're just picky about they openly respond to, rather than responding to every possible input with a definite yes/no/maybe answer and instead reply only if they have something concrete, usually.

[Leonard McCoy]

Your response makes no sense since I never mentioned that the MF dailies were supposed to be the sole thing that kept the playerbase occupied for the entire expansion. It really feels like you just enjoy trolling since you tend to ignore posts that you quote, and just blindly and randomly complain.

I never said that MF dailies were the sole thing that was meant to keep the player base occupied. What I said was dailies have been around forever, they weren't a cure for boredom in cata why are they a cure for boredom now?

[xanzul]

This was posted on the wow forums and deleted within 5 min from the mods but not the less I wanted to see what you guys think.

Huge uproar over CRZ but they have done very little to fix it.

Huge uproar over dailies and they say "Future patches will keep the number of daily quests added more reasonable, similar to the amount added in Patch 5.1."

Huge uproar about bots but nothing done

Huge uproar about the state of pvp but well pvp is always been messed up moving along

Uproar over server population issues and faction inbalance.

SC2 COMMUNITY-MADE maps,

WC3 Feeddback

D3 Feedback

Did I miss any?

Do they even listen to feedback anymore?


keep it constructive and civil

Yes they listen to feedback. Most of what you and a few others are doing is NOT constructive not in the slightest bit. Hyperbole, lies and misinformation isn't going to get you anywhere but a forum vacation. If Blizzard was ignoring feedback they wouldn't keep raising the cap on certain threads such as cross realm zones and dailies and world pvp and they certainly wouldn't be attempting to have a dialogue with players.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:11 AM ----------

Apparently they listen to the Asian realms, noting the lockout changes.
I think they probably take player feedback on forums with a grain of salt as they should. But at times they downplay the feedback too much.

Blizzard licenses Wow to Netease and play no part in the management of their servers.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:12 AM ----------

No, Blizzard doesn't listen when it matters, and when they finally do, it is useally backfire, which it almost always has.

By backfire do you mean the whiners get exactly what they want and suddenly decide it isn't good enough for them simply so they can keep the QQ going?

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:14 AM ----------

Thanks for your input but the thread is about if blizzard listens to feedback.

So saying CMs taking feedback and discussing it with players has nothing to do with a topic about Blizzard listening to feedback? What?

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:22 AM ----------

Honestly, I've seen some fantastic ideas from posters on the forums over the 8 years I've played this game. Sometimes they make perfect sense, and it's a problem Blizzard has already said they're "looking to fix, but not sure how yet."

From what I've seen, they seem to specifically stay away from suggestions that customers make for an 'original' spin-off they come up with themselves, which is almost always worse. It's confusing to me. It's not limited to WoW, at ALL - WC3, SC2 - not listening to community feedback is a pretty common theme. Best examples I have is for SC2 - community votes on COMMUNITY-MADE maps, (zero development costs from Blizzard) and Blizzard either doesn't put them in, or alters them for what seems to be no reason other than to throw their "Blizzard" stamp on it, which ultimately lowers the quality and pisses off the customers.

So players never asked for Azeroth flying, transmog, void storage, removal of the daily cap, the ability to enter raids without being in a raid group, battletags as an alternative to realid, and the upcoming offline mode for realid/battletags among many other things? Are you seriously saying Blizzard ignores feedback when they have a history of making quite a few changes due to player feedback? Not getting your way doesn't mean they aren't listening.

As for SC2, it is Blizzard's game and they have every right to do what they please with it. This isn't Burger King and no you can't have it your way.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:24 AM ----------

I think, in general, there is a lot of exaggeration in a lot of complaint threads

"Huge uproar" ... that really means "I don't like it and I saw another poster who didn't like it either".

"They're not listening to feedback"... that really means "I complained about it on a forum and it wasn't immediately changed to be the way *I* want it".

They are listening. They just don't bend over and blindly do everything somebody qq's about.

When he says huge uproar what he really means is the same contingent of a few whiny players who spam the forums with whatever the whine of the week is. They don't speak for everyone and they have become so absurd to the point where they aren't even relevant anymore or worth listening to.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:30 AM ----------

I would say a huge uproar as in that people keep complaining about it. CRZ for example has had 17 caped threads on it that I know of

So did LFR. Last I checked it is still in game. Same with pet battles, farmville, paid transfers and many other things. Not all complaints are valid especially when their implementation would come at the expense of most of their other subscribers.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:33 AM ----------

And I'm sure Blizzard is tweaking CRZs and will tweak them more in the future. Isn't that the very definition of listening to the playerbase?

This isn't what the anti cross realm zone crowd wants. They never wanted the bugs addressed. They just want it gone period so they can get back their competition free empty zone play style. This is a great example of where getting rid of something would hurt more players than keeping it would and why I don't think Blizzard minds cutting their losses as far as those players go. At some point customer demands become unreasonable and the best thing a company can do is make a choice that benefits the majority of their customers.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:39 AM ----------

A lot of us who have been... less than pleased with Blizz in the last couple years do tend to over-react. And yes, there's almost certainly someone who will rage about any changes to the game. But banwaves are for all practical purposes a myth at this point. You're hurting your own credibility when you claim that Blizz is somehow "waiting for the right time" for a banwave.

Here is a suggestion for all you tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. Track the prices of Mop ore and herbs for a few weeks. For a while you will see hundreds of stacks of ore and herbs selling for very low prices but every so often the prices will shoot up to at least double what they were before and supply would be very limited. Want to know why? Because Blizzard probably managed to break some of the botting programs and did a ban wave. It isn't a myth and Blizzard has no reason to lie about it. Botting costs them customers and profit and it is in their best interests to do whatever it takes to get rid of them. Would you rather Blizzard just start banning potential bots willy nilly and then worry about verifying it later? You really think that is good customer service to ban legitimate paying customers?

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:44 AM ----------

CRZ is probably the worst idea they've come up with for WoW. When I first read over it, I was like "Cool, a way to level with friends." Then I realized they were going to force cross realm on everybody, willing or not - which, BTW, they did NOT EXPRESS in patch notes before they released it. If they just straight took that part out, 90% of the issues with it would disappear. People have been complaining about CRZ nonstop since beta.

I guess at the same time, Blizzard would lose out on the main reason they put development time on CRZ in the first place, which is less server-side requirements. (which they really shouldn't be worried about at this point anyway, imo)

It most certainly was in the patch notes and it was highly publicized on this site, Wowhead, Blizzard's very own site and many other fan sites. Like I keep saying you people are scrambling to come up with complaints about cross realm zones because you are trying to hide what this is really all about: protecting your competition free empty zone play style at the expense of everyone else's fun. No one is buying your bullshit lies anymore and as I have said this is the main reason why Blizzard gave up trying to discuss the matter with you people.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:46 AM ----------

All depends what you mean. Activision Vivendi Blizz spend a lot of money, a lot, on research and consumer profiles. They then take that info and work it into their philosophy of "the most amount of money every year forever." If a particular player request doesn't jive w annualization, it simply won't get implemented.

So, no, they don't. Blizz is a for-profit company, that doesn't listen.

So Blizzard is making a profit by pissing off customers and making them leave? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:47 AM ----------

A lot of that is the result of an echo-chamber effect that forums naturally have. I am willing to bet money that all of those threads are filled with many of the same posters. Even if each one of those threads contained nothing but complaints, and each post was from a unique player, it would still be an insignificant minority of the playerbase. Even the one true "victory" of the playerbase that is claimed against Blizzard (real names on the forums) wasn't changed due to the direct result of player feedback. It was changed because of the legal ramifications involved. And the outcry against that was far greater than any of the supposed game breaking issues that groups of people complain about today.

So yes, they listen to feedback. Listening and agreeing are not the same thing. And agreeing does not necessarily mean instant implementation, nor that the eventual changes will be exactly what a player or group of players asked for. No product, video game related or otherwise, is designed by democracy nor should they be. People in general are too self-interested to maintain the objectivity required once group-think takes over. All we would end up with is a gigantic mess.

Exactly this. All the cross realm zone threads have been the same 10-15 people insulting and harassing anyone who dares say something positive about cross realm zones and then lament how terrible this community is. The amount of hypocrisy and stupidity in those threads is simply astounding.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:51 AM ----------

If your idea of "listening to player feedback" is making more daily quests, I can't imagine anything more disingenuous. I know that's the reason I've seen blues give, but honestly, it's pure stupidity. I wasn't seeing any forum spam in Cata along the lines of "We REALLY want more daily quests!" Adding basic UI functionality (and stealing ideas from addons) isn't really something I'd consider 'responding to player feedback' either.

There are some good changes on that list, like dungeon journal, AoE looting... (which they actually only put in after SWTOR came out, and they more or less copied it from them) Transmog is probably one of the best things I can think of that Blizzard came up with.

But really, out of 8 years of player suggestions, your list is pretty pathetic in my opinion, and some of those things you're attributing to community feedback are quite a reach.

These dailies are meant for players who wanted an alternate progression path. It wasn't meant for raiders. Their progression path is 5 mans>MV>HOF>TOES. Also with the introduction of the valor upgrade system in 5.1 there is not one single reason anyone should be complaining at this point.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:57 AM ----------

Read through the capped threads and note the two dozen people who have made hundreds of posts about it to keep the threads going. I'm not saying that there hasn't been significant pushback about it but it's quite true that many of those capped threads contain the same people saying the same thing over and over again as if post count makes a difference.

What's worse is I have seen a few of the more vocal whiners in those threads actually bragging about how they are going to continue to spam the forums until cross realm zones are scrapped. Many of them will even go into other threads not having anything to do with cross realm zones and derail them with their nonsense and propaganda. Honestly it is getting to the point where Blizzard needs to start cracking down on them.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 07:59 AM ----------

Blizzard values your feedback so much they removed the suggestions forum. That should tell you exactly what you need to know.

Blizzard learnt a lot from Cata. The new metric is hours played. People who don't play endlessly quickly realize how marginal the value of their subscription is and cancel. To minimize this give them cheap pointless filler crap to do in the mean time with glacial speed character progression outside raids. Raiders will feel obliged to do it to help their raids while casuals who don't know any better lap it up.

They removed the suggestion forum because it became a cesspool of trolling. They want suggestions to go into the appropriate sub forum which is perfectly fine. You don't need a forum labeled "suggestions" to suggest things to Blizzard.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:06 AM ----------

tl;dr: Because they're a bunch of useless, hypocritical assholes?

So vote with your wallet and get the hell out already. Bitter jaded players like you are a cancer in this community rotting it from the inside out.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:08 AM ----------

They take maps the community likes, take a nice blue shit on them, and then add them to the map pool. I don't see how that's a good thing, or qualifies as them listening to feedback. I feel like it's introduces more negativity than anything.

But you (and others) with a cursory glance, think "Hey, Blizzard did what you asked, good for them!" ... no.

I have a feeling Blizzard does this because a majority of the maps are absolute crap. How dare Blizzard be concerned about the integrity of their game!

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:18 AM ----------

We wanted Blizzard to merge dead servers. Instead they gave us cross realm zones which only exacerbated the problem.

Blizz listen to feedback?

Maybe you should try listening to Blizzard for once. Cross realm zones were only ever meant to address empty zones. Nothing more nothing less. Stop with the bullshit. The very fact that on pvp realms people are wailing and crying and stamping their feet over people being in their mmo ganking them shows beyond a shadow of a doubt the feature is working exactly as intended.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:23 AM ----------

Every patchnotes start with "We think/believe its best for players to play this way". seriously guys?

So NCSoft isn't telling GW2 players how to play? Trion isn't telling Rift players how to play? That is the entire point of video game design. You are supposed to find a game that fits your play style not pick up some random game and berate the hell out of the developers until they change it to your specifications.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:45 AM ----------

MoP is case of them misinterpreting feedback. We want more to do means meant that we wanted more end game content not more dailies.

Sha of Anger
Galleon
5 different wings of LFR
16 bosses in tier 14 in 3 separate raids
Scenarios
Pet battles
Brawlers Guild
Challenge Modes

Need I go on? Sounds like a hell of a lot more to do than Cata ever had and that isn't even including the dailies. And then there is the fact that Blizzard wants to get the next raid patch out sometime early next year so if they can follow through with it like they did with 5.1 then no one should be complaining about a lack of content for quite a while.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:49 AM ----------

That's actually what bugs me most. I guess I didn't pay enough attention to mists but I figured they'd just continue the whole getting gear from grinding dungeons scheme because as much as I followed discussion on the forums and in the game NOBODY or next to nobody at any rate said to blizzard "hey blizzard give us more daily quests and make sure valor gear is behind it". Who was asking for more daily quests?

Oh I don't know...maybe just maybe people who like dailies? Maybe the players who wanted an alternate progression path that didn't involve raiding or 5 mans? Oh right I forgot. Baddies who like dailies don't count despite paying the same $15 as you.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:56 AM ----------

Kinda too often in interviews and blue posts I read Blizz representatives saying things like: "We like it this way", "We're fine with this", "We didn't liked it". We=Blizzard. Rarely I read them talking about "Players wanted", "Players liked/disliked", "We changed it because players asked to". They only seem to care about players' opinions when there is real threat they might unsubscribe, otherwise they treat any feedback as pointless whining of 5yo.

It is Blizzard's game, Blizzard's vision and Blizzard's decisions. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. Simple as that. I'm pretty sure NCSoft and Trion don't cave at the slightest hint of a whine. Blizzard is trying to develop for a broad spectrum of players meaning a lot of what they do is going to piss someone off. Again when players have suggested things that fit in with the game Blizzard has implemented them. Just because they don't do what YOU want on YOUR time table doesn't mean they don't listen or that they don't care.

[Goatfish]

So NCSoft isn't telling GW2 players how to play? Trion isn't telling Rift players how to play? That is the entire point of video game design. You are supposed to find a game that fits your play style not pick up some random game and berate the hell out of the developers until they change it to your specifications.

Actually most game companies say "Here is the game, play it how you want to." and unless something is broken or seriously imbalanced they leave it. Blizzard is the only company that has come out and said: "We think you guys should be playing this way because this is what we think is fun and don't care about what you think is fun." when not talking about severe game imbalance or bugs. A good example is the change from badges to 'points'. Another example would be CRZ. Another example would be dailies for valor gear. Another example would be raid lockouts... the list goes on and on. The point being that instead of saying "You guys can do this however you like" they have said "We don't think what you are spending all your time on and enjoying is fun, so we are taking it away/changing it regardless of if you think it's fun or not. We know what you think is fun better than you do."

It's an extremely pompous and ignorant view, especially for a designer of any type. This isn't even adding in the fact that they try and portray their developers as people who work 24/7 sitting like the statue of 'The Thinker' pouring out brilliant ideas by the hundreds so they never have any time to actually talk to the community and are forced to shove it off on so called 'community managers' who have only the slightest inkling of what is going on and are generally useless. Blizzard added their own middle man, and everyone knows just how worthless the middle man can be.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I think they do. Sometimes I feel like they listen to the wrong feedback (like the complaints about the beta female worgen, for example >=I) but I get the impression that they do take stuff the community says on board. Otherwise, I don't think Lor'themar would have been updated so that he is wearing an eye-patch and replaced his voice actor with someone whose voice is actually suited to an elf and doesn't sound like Adam friggin' West. >.>

[Goatfish]

Yeah, I think they do. Sometimes I feel like they listen to the wrong feedback (like the complaints about the beta female worgen, for example >=I) but I get the impression that they do take stuff the community says on board. Otherwise, I don't think Lor'themar would have been updated so that he is wearing an eye-patch and replaced his voice actor with someone whose voice is actually suited to an elf and doesn't sound like Adam friggin' West. >.>

Oh god, don't remind me about worgen models in general... especially the female one... I haven't played in 2 years and it still bothers me how hard they butchered them.

[Deleted]

Oh god, don't remind me about worgen models in general... especially the female one... I haven't played in 2 years and it still bothers me how hard they butchered them.

I never really gave a toss about the Worgen models, tbh...

[Deleted]

Oh god, don't remind me about worgen models in general... especially the female one... I haven't played in 2 years and it still bothers me how hard they butchered them.

Or male blood elves, I loved the slim beta ones - which were allegedly changed as a result of feedback from sexually insecure males...

On topic: I think they listen to feedback, but I also think that

a) they have such a massive and diverse playerbase that it's impossible for them to react to feedback the way games with smaller, more focused audiences can;
b) that's led them to a 'we know best' attitude that isn't always right and that they find it very difficult to adjust - see for example the RealID on the forums fiasco that they certainly had no intention of backing down on to begin with.