The Purge of Dalaran (Horde-side; major spoilers)

[Combatbutler]

Actually you are wrong here. It was not the Sunreaver as an organization that helped Garrosh, it was was two blood elves who happened to be in that organization that did.
I guess you wouldn´t advocate purging all Silver Hand members because Arthas betrayed them, would you ?

And second time is probably wrong,too. As i understand it Aethas Sunreaver approved the Kirin Tor defense of Theramore against the Horde attack so the chance is high that there were Sunreaver there defending Theramore. Do you really see that as a betrayal of the whole group ?

There were five members of the Kirin Tor who helped Theramore and Thalen was the sole representative for the Sunreavers there.

[Enosh]

Could Jaina be posessed by the negativ Sha? Genocid does not sound like something she would have done in the past.

someone betraying you, nuking your city with a lot of people you cared about in it and then betraying you again in order to allow more murder of your friends tends to do this, sha or no sha

Actually you are wrong here. It was not the Sunreaver as an organization that helped Garrosh, it was was two blood elves who happened to be in that organization that did.
I guess you wouldn´t advocate purging all Silver Hand members because Arthas betrayed them, would you ?

what exactly did the sunreavers do after the first betrayal? of right fuck all, which lead to the second incident
it's either indirect support by looking the other way all the time or it is criminal negligence and incompetence, each of those makes it perfectly clear that the sunreavers are either too evil or too stupid to be allowed to stay

[checking facts]

People are forgetting what the blood elves did during TBC? Enslaving Mu'ru and twisting the light with fel energy? That alone is a reason for bitter hatred towards them (just see how the Aldor handles the Scriers).

remember how being enslaved was all a carefully laid evil plan from the naaru to redeem the blood elves?

by evil I mean good lol

[Combatbutler]

someone betraying you, nuking your city with a lot of people you cared about in it and then betraying you again in order to allow more murder of your friends tends to do this, sha or no sha

It isn't certain the Sunreavers nuked Theramore. The Sunfury are the most likely responsible for that manabomb, but that does not change the fact that Garrosh dropped it.

[Zaelsino]

what exactly did the sunreavers do after the first betrayal? of right fuck all, which lead to the second incident

Aethas makes it clear in Tides of War that he's trying to do "all he can" to make up for Songweaver's treachery. He dropped him like a sack of bricks after it happened; his misstep was in assuming Thalen was the only one of Garrosh's agents wearing his colours.

What more could he have done? Gather up his entire organization and kindly ask any duplicitous magical spies to step forward?

Also, just did it today. Great questline, though I leave it feeling pretty bad for Aethas. Still, slaughtering Silver Covenant goons was a nice way to begin a Sunday morning.

[Yriel]

what exactly did the sunreavers do after the first betrayal? of right fuck all, which lead to the second incident
it's either indirect support by looking the other way all the time or it is criminal negligence and incompetence, each of those makes it perfectly clear that the sunreavers are either too evil or too stupid to be allowed to stay

We had that already. What did anyone do after the first incident ? What was the Kirin Tor council doing ? What was Jaina doing ? I don´t know. Looks like all of them looked the other way. That´s why this overreaction after the second incident is so puzzling.

[Deleted]

We had that already. What did anyone do after the first incident ? What was the Kirin Tor council doing ? What was Jaina doing ? I don´t know. Looks like all of them looked the other way. That´s why this overreaction after the second incident is so puzzling.

A single incident might've been a coincidence, bad luck or just something gone plain wrong. A second one, not a chance. Having an Horde aligned political unit turn against you not once but on several occasions takes away the benefit of the doubt. You in all honesty want to tell me that nobody noticed that we marched right through Dalaran on our way to Darnassus and used the portals to mount attacks on Alliance cities?

Even if Aethas was honest, the majority of the Sunreavers did in fact sympathize and work with the Horde as they did back in Wotlk. They were a fifth column in the middle of Dalaran, you don't let such a thing intact.

[Deleted]

No, that's the thing about high elves. They're not a 1-faction sub-race. They are affiliated with all sorts of factions. Steamwheedle, the Scourge, the Alliance, Darkmoon Faire. My point was that, not all high elves love the Alliance and its not too difficult to imagine that some of the blood elves' blue-eyed cousins wouldn't mind heading back to Silvermoon again.

But don't call them a sub-race to their face.

[Zaelsino]

You in all honesty want to tell me that nobody noticed that we marched right through Dalaran on our way to Darnassus and used the portals to mount attacks on Alliance cities?

We didn't do that. One mage summons a Sunreaver portal of their own at Domination Point, which takes us straight to Darnassus. The point was that as a member of the Kirin Tor, said mage would be able to summon her own Dalarani portals directly to Alliance cities; we didn't go anywhere near Dalaran itself.

[Deleted]

But don't call them a sub-race to their face.

Wouldn't dream of it!

I just refer to them as a sub-race in a game context, not an 'in-universe' one. Like I would refer to the Wildhammer as a sub-race of the playable Ironforge dwarves, but really they're all just dwarves. Same with the Grimtotem tribe of tauren.

[Deleted]

We didn't do that. One mage summons a Sunreaver portal of their own at Domination Point, which takes us straight to Darnassus. The point was that as a member of the Kirin Tor, said mage would be able to summon her own Dalarani portals directly to Alliance cities; we didn't go anywhere near Dalaran itself.

The thing is that said mage utilized the abilities of Dalaran, one of the major plot points of why this happens and obviously there is some kind of surveillance in place. Hell the whole portal magic thing would be dangerous as hell if there wasn't. So people would have to notice it, there is no way they wouldn't.

[Zaelsino]

The thing is that said mage utilized the abilities of Dalaran, one of the major plot points of why this happens and obviously there is some kind of surveillance in place. Hell the whole portal magic thing would be dangerous as hell if there wasn't. So people would have to notice it, there is no way they wouldn't.

That mage and her portal isn't why the Sunreavers get implicated; Fanlyr Silverthorn doing a crap job at cleaning up afterwards (on Darnassus's end) is the only reason Jaina has any reason to suspect her own Kirin Tor helped steal the bell. Jaina didn't find any evidence whatsoever in Dalaran; she's completely unaware of what's happened until she traces the arcane residue around Darna back to Fanlyr's portal, also in Darna.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. It's fairly obvious from Jaina's aghast ignorance that we didn't go through Dalaran (or provoke its suspicion) on our way to Darnassus... Fanlyr's portal (the "Sunreaver" portal) simply allowed us to ignore Jaina's anti-Horde wards.

[Deleted]

Aethas makes it clear in Tides of War that he's trying to do "all he can" to make up for Songweaver's treachery. He dropped him like a sack of bricks after it happened; his misstep was in assuming Thalen was the only one of Garrosh's agents wearing his colours.

What more could he have done? Gather up his entire organization and kindly ask any duplicitous magical spies to step forward?

Also, just did it today. Great questline, though I leave it feeling pretty bad for Aethas. Still, slaughtering Silver Covenant goons was a nice way to begin a Sunday morning.

In the Alliance scenario when Jaina faces Aethas, he comes pretty arrogant and indifferently over, to me, by nearly spotting saying "you've it all wrong, Jaina", though. He could have keeping an eye on the Sunreavers and act as the leader and making sure he knows that he has the loyalty of its members, which he had not proven by both incidents. Saying you take responsability for the bombing of Theramore alone isn't enough, you have to act to it as well.
The least what he could do when Jaina uttered her accusations was reacting upset and promissing he was going to investigate it to the bottom (which he should have done before), might have not worked but he didn't either.

[zSlayer]

so damn epic!

[Deleted]

In the Alliance scenario when Jaina faces Aethas, he comes pretty arrogant and indifferently over, to me, by nearly spotting saying "you've it all wrong, Jaina", though.

Comes across as more resigned and pessimistic to me. Like he knows that saying, "You've got it all wrong.", is going to fall on deaf ears, so why should he bother putting his heart into it. After all, when he enters the room, several of his Sunreaver colleagues lie dead on the floor and Jaina stands with staff in hand and elemental familiar summoned. He knows that she isn't there to talk things out or listen to explanations.

He does sound insincere, but I think it is because of hopelessness, not arrogance or malevolence.

[Deleted]

Comes across as more resigned and pessimistic to me. Like he knows that saying, "You've got it all wrong.", is going to fall on deaf ears, so why should he bother putting his heart into it. After all, when he enters the room, several of his Sunreaver colleagues lie dead on the floor and Jaina stands with staff in hand and elemental familiar summoned. He knows that she isn't there to talk things out or listen to explanations.

He does sound insincere, but I think it is because of hopelessness, not arrogance or malevolence.

Though seeing it comes over differently to me than to you, it can happen to Jaina as well. And his reaction would have made it worse to me.

[Wildtree]

Done the final quests yesterday, and it was so epic. Really awesome. I loved it.
The mob density inside the Inn was a little too much for me. Should have went into the kitchen first and clean that up to be safe. I didn't so I ended up dying by getting aggro from almost the entire Inn NPCs lol
I've done it on my druid, so I prowled basically almost all the time. I'm curious how it's going to be when I cannot hide and have to fight a lot more.

In the Alliance scenario when Jaina faces Aethas, he comes pretty arrogant and indifferently over, to me, by nearly spotting saying "you've it all wrong, Jaina",

I have to agree with that somehow.
Aethas rather fueled Jania's reaction. Naturally he should have reacted rather upset, almost like she was. He didn't react surprised.
Rather than he knew what happened and did nothing.
If he already knew, and had he welcomed her with the news about what he did regarding the traitors, the outcome would have likely be a different one.

Anyhow, I really love how we get involved with every faction leader more and more expressing their very own opinions and how they more and more shift towards the care of their own faction. Lor'themar's last speech was just great. Who would have thought that this guy who stood there for years, boring, in an abandoned city turns out to be such a character.

[Deleted]

Rommah: "My lord, you would make a fine a fine Warchief."

Theron: "It may come to that."

Game of Thrones reference xD? ´´You would make a great king....´´

Sorry for OT, just came to mind

[Trassk]

Actually you are wrong here. It was not the Sunreaver as an organization that helped Garrosh, it was was two blood elves who happened to be in that organization that did.
I guess you wouldn´t advocate purging all Silver Hand members because Arthas betrayed them, would you ?

thats what I get from the alliance fans here and there argument. Because a couple of blood elves betray the kirin tor, all the blood elves/sunreavers in dalaran must be guilty because of the few. Yet if some silver convent did the same thing, used dalaran the move the divine bell, they would be blameless, mostly because the alliance thinks dalaran did belong to them even when it was neutral.

Its utter crap if people think Jaina has a right to treat every single member of the sunreavers for the crimes of just two of them. That be like blaming every single german for the actions of one tyrannical group in the second world war, or blaming every single Afghanistan for what happened in 9/11, which I know for a fact of reading threads back around the time of that event, people were blaming an entire country for the actions of a few, wanting to bomb Afghanistan because of it.

[TheDangerZone]

We didn't do that. One mage summons a Sunreaver portal of their own at Domination Point, which takes us straight to Darnassus. The point was that as a member of the Kirin Tor, said mage would be able to summon her own Dalarani portals directly to Alliance cities; we didn't go anywhere near Dalaran itself.

But that's the point, he summoned a Dalarani portal: those use Dalaran's resources to work. We don't really know exactly how portals work, but we know they haven't been used to teleport troops directly into enemy territory (maybe they function like Bluetooth, and the receiver end must allow the connection to enter; a two way comunication) most likely it isn't possible. So that's why they needed a Dalarani portal and instead of using the end in the Silver Covenant they placed it in Domination Point.

I seriously doubt that any Kirin Tor can open portals anywhere they please, less so with Jaina's more strict politics, so I think that Fanlyr had to "steal" a portal from the Silver Covenant, or use Dalaran resources to trick Darnassus into believing that the portal came from friendly territory. It is speculation, but there HAD to be failsafes of some sort to prevent anyone from teleporting at will from anywhere, and the only way was to actively use Dalaran's resources.