Demo tanking aint dead

[Deleted]

This is a Demo Warlock that is tanking. why are people disputing this? Or maybe people are just jealous?

[Soisoisoi]

There is absolutely no way you can hold aggro with Righteous Fury and "lots of heals" off of good, competent DPS. And you'll die in any stun.

We're talking about LFG and PuGs here, there are rarely any competent DPS, and even when there is the 500% threat modifier from RF should easily be enough to keep agro. I doubt you'd die either, Tanks can't avoid damage during a stun and disregarding cooldowns (you have CDs as most classes) the only difference is the amount of HP they have - I've tanked dungeons with less HP than some DPS with lower geared alts, so it really wouldn't make a difference. Not like it really matters though tbh, I was using Holy Paladins as an example, as Warlocks are not tanks either.

How many challenge modes have you actually done? Because you definitely need a healer for most pulls, even if you can get away with said healer switching to DPS on some bosses.

Honestly, you had a point at the beginning of this thread, but now you're just making yourself look more ignorant of class mechanics with each successive post. To put it short, you're trying way too hard to prove a point.

Meh, from what I've seen most of the time the heals come from the Hybrids using off-heals rather than an actual healer, allowing 1 Tank and 4 DPS setups. Not really sure how you think this makes me ignorant of class mechanics though.

[nightfalls]

We're talking about LFG and PuGs here, there are rarely any competent DPS, and even when there is the 500% threat modifier from RF should easily be enough to keep agro. I doubt you'd die either, Tanks can't avoid damage during a stun and disregarding cooldowns (you have CDs as most classes) the only difference is the amount of HP they have - I've tanked dungeons with less HP than some DPS with lower geared alts, so it really wouldn't make a difference. Not like it really matters though tbh, I was using Holy Paladins as an example, as Warlocks are not tanks either.

If it's "LFG and PUGs" then you won't have a healer (as you said, healer + 4 dps) and if the group is incompetent you won't have a good hybrid. So you'll die in that stun, versus a tank who has a healer (the warlock would also have a healer). Derp. You also have more armor and base mitigation as a tank. I won't even explain the healing, since it's fairly obvious you have little knowledge of mechanics.

Meh, from what I've seen most of the time the heals come from the Hybrids using off-heals rather than an actual healer, allowing 1 Tank and 4 DPS setups. Not really sure how you think this makes me ignorant of class mechanics though.

It's possible for some pulls and has been done for some pulls (low damage bosses) but to get a good time, you'll lose more than you gain by using hybrids to heal, suffice it to say they will not be DPS'ing anyway on the big pulls.



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It's funny since you used a pretty bad example with Holy, my holy paladin (better geared than my warlock) with a shield equipped has 52% damage reduction from armor, versus 56% on my warlock. My warlock would also have more base mitigation than my paladin, even if my paladin had 100% uptime on divine protection (which she doesn't). Notice that's her only defensive CD.

Add in more mitigation (both CD's and passive) on my warlock and that he doesn't rely on hardcasting to generate threat, and yeah, he makes a way better secondary tank than my pally (as holy).


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Either way, I think this discussion is going nowhere, you're not even making a point anymore (as to warlocks tanking heroics).

[Soisoisoi]

If it's "LFG and PUGs" then you won't have a healer. So you'll die in that stun, versus a tank who has a healer (the warlock would also have a healer). Derp. You also have more armor and base mitigation as a tank. I won't even explain the healing, since it's fairly obvious you have little knowledge of mechanics.

As a Healer, another healer isn't needed. There's nothing in a dungeon that can even kill you where any stuns are concerned, and even if there was you could simply use a cooldown. I'm not sure what you think Armor and mitigation as a tank have to do with Warlocks and Holy Paladins as neither are tanks though, you can simply just soak all the damage and out-heal it. If you're not going to even think about this why are you replying?

Either way, it's besides the point as pretty much any class can "tank" these dungeons (hence me using Holy Paladins as an example from when they were used previously, like my own example), making the point of this thread moot. When someone tanks current content bosses, and not just gimmick fights or content which is over-geared, then it will be worth posting. Until then, it's really not.

Either way, I think this discussion is going nowhere, you're not even making a point anymore (as to warlocks tanking heroics).

The point is, as I've said, these dungeons aren't exactly hard, and it does not make Demo Warlocks a tank. The same could be said for pretty much any class. Circles, I swear I keep going in them. I wish people would read!

I'll quote myself to save me replying again:

When someone tanks current content bosses, and not just gimmick fights or content which is over-geared, then it will be worth posting. Until then, it's really not.

[nightfalls]

You're trying way too hard to prove a point no one is denying... again.

As a Healer, another healer isn't needed. There's nothing in a dungeon that can even kill you where any stuns are concerned, and even if there was you could simply use a cooldown.

1) If you're stunned, you aren't healing yourself, even if you are a "healer" class.
2) For an example, Mogu'shan Palace and Scarlet Monastery both have some pretty nasty stunning mobs, which happen to be in packs with other mobs (so not just 1 mob).
3) What cooldowns? You have a shield and Divine Protection as Holy, and Bubble/BOP every 5 minutes, in which case you lose aggro on your mobs who will proceed to nuke your DPS.

I'm not sure what you think Armor and mitigation as a tank have to do with Warlocks and Holy Paladins as neither are tanks though, you can simply just soak all the damage and out-heal it.

You are misreading my post. I am explaining that a Prot Paladin surviving stuns is not the same thing as a Holy Paladin surviving stuns. There are significant differences in how they mitigate damage, beyond avoidance...

Either way, it's besides the point as pretty much any class can "tank" these dungeons (hence me using Holy Paladins as an example from when they were used previously, like my own example), making the point of this thread moot.

I did acknowledge many classes can tank the dungeons earlier. Ironically, Holy Paladins would be particularly terrible at doing so, and you tried to prove a point by bringing them up, which only shows your lack of knowledge toward both warlock and paladin class mechanics.

The point is, as I've said, these dungeons aren't exactly hard, and it does not make Demo Warlocks a tank. The same could be said for pretty much any class. Circles, I swear I keep going in them.

When someone tanks current content bosses, and not just gimmick fights or content which is over-geared, then it will be worth posting. Until then, it's really not.

1) I gave my opinion which I already quoted. Warlocks can serve as a "tank" in groups, but do not deserve the label "main tank." A tank is someone who, in a group, simply holds most of the aggro and soaks most of the damage for the party, as with any MMO/instance. A "main tank" would be a class and spec that is designed around doing this as their "main" job and for the toughest content.

2) Who are you to decide what is "worth posting" and not. Clearly others enjoyed seeing this post and perhaps found it valuable. It's really this arrogant (just IMO) mindset that I really find annoying but amusing in a way, especially for someone who (as shown above) has little to no actual knowledge of warlock class mechanics telling people what they can or can't post in warlock forums.

[Quae]

I tanked a lot of hero dungeons now in Pandaria as demo .... the healers were happy overall , i wasn´t ´´hard´´ to heal at all .

Ohh btw soul link + Void sacrifice ftw !! the felguard gives you an awesome CHARGE !! :P

[Deleted]

Ho look it's this thread again.
I tanked the whole 5-heroics the first two weeks of MoP, so, it's kinda fun as long as the healer is aware of that. Afterwards I only did this in a guild group because I was getting tired of asking the tank to switch dps so that I could have a few minutes of enjoyment while slowing down the whole group because Dark Apotheosis' dps totally sucks.

As for raid content (not LFR), the only thing I did tank was the Spirit Kings in normal mode. Because most of the other fights require tank switching that we can't do.


So I guess you can tank extremely easy encounters (that you overgear) as long as mechanics allow you so.

[protput]

Because most of the other fights require tank switching that we can't do.

Why not? We have a taunt?

[Hellfury]

Because most of the other fights require tank switching that we can't do.

Why not? We have a taunt?

And that taunt doesn't work on raid bosses.

[jonoy8]

heroics are so under tuned that isn't impressive

anyway how is it "hard" to tank you generate so much threat that you can't lose aggro so it's just up to the healer to carry you, you aren't doing anything special by tanking.

[Sinj]

heroics are so under tuned that isn't impressive

anyway how is it "hard" to tank you generate so much threat that you can't lose aggro so it's just up to the healer to carry you, you aren't doing anything special by tanking.

Who said it was hard, who said I was doing anything special and who claimed it was impressive? I sure as hell didn't claim any of those things. I've had plenty of compliments on my "tanking" and lots of people saying to me they didn't know it could be done (or that it'd be so easy to heal), so obviously not everyone knew about this. I made a video to share with the warlock community those experiences in hopes they might get some enjoyment out of it too (as I have).

God forbid, right?

If I had ever said ANYTHING along the lines of 'DEMO TANKS ARE RAID TANKS NOW' or 'CHECK OUT MY SKILLS LOL', people's replies would have been (somewhat) justified. But I didn't, and your comments are severely misguided.

[Raugnaut]

And that taunt doesn't work on raid bosses.

Which is fairly odd for blizz's intent of "A warlock picking up the boss till tank gets Brezed" for the glyph. Warlock has to be number 2 or w/e on threat meters for the boss to swap to him should the tank go down. Otherwise, the boss will go around smacking dps till the warlock can get the threat up to tank the boss- by this time, the tank has already been Brezed/buffed/topped off, and you most likely have a few dead dps.

[Alarinth]

Hi.

This is just pure speculation and guessing from my point, but let's say that theoretically, in your full 496 gear, every piece has mastery, and you've gemmed for it as well as enchanted for it. Would that make you a viable tank for raids? Lets assume you've reached 8500 mastery pre-buffs.

To give an example of raid tanking, I mean tanking one of the three dogs on Stone Guards, the add on Elegon, the Strength on Emperor, Big add on Tsulong (let's not delve into WHY you're tanking it, only if it's possible) etc.

[xskarma]

Hi.

This is just pure speculation and guessing from my point, but let's say that theoretically, in your full 496 gear, every piece has mastery, and you've gemmed for it as well as enchanted for it. Would that make you a viable tank for raids? Lets assume you've reached 8500 mastery pre-buffs.

To give an example of raid tanking, I mean tanking one of the three dogs on Stone Guards, the add on Elegon, the Strength on Emperor, Big add on Tsulong (let's not delve into WHY you're tanking it, only if it's possible) etc.

Next time please look for a thread you can post your question in before creating a new thread. Moved your post to the thread about Demo tanking that was still on the first page of the board. I suggest you read through it, as it gives the opinions of at least some of the community, as well as some technical info.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure gemming etc for mastery is better than Int - the scaling isn't great and a good amount of the damage mitigation you would have is from fury ward. Using my normal demo stats my fury ward absorbs ~90k damage.

I'm guessing you could probably tank the strengths/adds if you wanted to so long as people watched their threat - but as you said I'm not sure why you would want to as a tank would already be free on elegon/Tsulong etcetc.

We decided to use me as a soaker on Garalon HC as I could still pop in/out of metamorposis with CDs to dot up and do more damage than a full tank.

[Deleted]

This is just pure speculation and guessing from my point, but let's say that theoretically, in your full 496 gear, every piece has mastery, and you've gemmed for it as well as enchanted for it. Would that make you a viable tank for raids? Lets assume you've reached 8500 mastery pre-buffs.

To give an example of raid tanking, I mean tanking one of the three dogs on Stone Guards, the add on Elegon, the Strength on Emperor, Big add on Tsulong (let's not delve into WHY you're tanking it, only if it's possible) etc.

8500 mastery rating is less than 7% extra physical damage reduction. You get 13.85% base reduction, that'll be around 22.5% phys dmg reduction fully buffed. Meh, not bad, but I'd prefer stacking stamina, DA's mastery scaling is really too low to be worth it.

(But then there's no point having a warlock tanking on Stone Guards/Elegon/Tsulong considering you need two real tanks for these encounters. And you don't have to be in DA to tank the Strength adds as they're not supposed to hit anyone anyway.)

[PutressFIRST]

Who said it was hard, who said I was doing anything special and who claimed it was impressive? I sure as hell didn't claim any of those things. I've had plenty of compliments on my "tanking" and lots of people saying to me they didn't know it could be done (or that it'd be so easy to heal), so obviously not everyone knew about this. I made a video to share with the warlock community those experiences in hopes they might get some enjoyment out of it too (as I have).

God forbid, right?

If I had ever said ANYTHING along the lines of 'DEMO TANKS ARE RAID TANKS NOW' or 'CHECK OUT MY SKILLS LOL', people's replies would have been (somewhat) justified. But I didn't, and your comments are severely misguided.

Just an FYI but there has been about 400 million (exaggeration of course) posts about demo tanking, with attached videos and or guides in this very forum in fact. The people that didn't know about it probably haven't set foot on any WoW forum, as this topic was hugely popular post MoP launch.

Edit: Not sure why a lot of responders are upset at this post. I for one think Demo tanking is completely pointless, having to sit around and wait for 4 people to join your party since we can't que, rather just do dailies. Even after the nerf demo locks were still able to go in and tank heroics, they're not hard, unless you are in level 88 greens and your healer just dinged 90. Honestly I am glad you had fun and made the video, but posting it here was probably a waste of your time, like I said this has been up before. One last thing, we need more passive magic damage mitigation.

Edit 2: Demo tanking is fun but still pointless :P.

[lazypeon100]

Difference is actual tanks have to actually actively mitigate stuff, a pet doesn't.


Just want to be clear, I'm not hating, I just don't think this really makes Demo tanks "viable". Sure, you can get a group of friends or something and tank a dungeon, but then again so can pretty much every class, but you won't do much else.

I'm not sure how it is for locks (I haven't touched my lock in ages), but I know for hunter tanking with the pet you still have to actively mitigate stuff with the use of pet CDs and such.

The benefit of the pet being unable to be harmed by (most) aoes is nice, but it's hardly an argument against it. The lack of actual control (versus the control you'd have over just playing your character instead of micro managing a pet) is what really makes it unable to be viable. You'd be surprised at what a pet can tank given the proper rotations / specs.

If there was a better way to control the pet as well as make it have a few more unique tools to use at its disposal, then I could see the argument against the whole "it doesn't take AOE damage" thing. And again, just clarifying not saying I think Locks/Hunters should be tanks (although I'd love it if they were :P).