Proof gun control doesn't work.

[dwarven]

When were we talking about Lanza? I was just talking about people who kill other people with guns. To add to that, mental disorders often have their roots in cultural mechanisms; not always, but often. And, considering that Lanza grew up mystified by the Chicago gangsters and other gun-wielding individuals placed in a position of fame, I wouldn't doubt that part of that culture was adopted by Lanza, as it is by many of us.

There is so much falsehood in this statement I don't even know where to start. Obviously Lanza was a troubled person who had no intention of carrying out any "gangster fantasy". Gangsters don't kill themselves after shooting 20 kids. There is no correlation there. As for your mental disorder theory, different cultures place importance on different aspects of life. However, something like Body Dysmorphic Disorder (for example) is the same for anyone no matter what part of your body you feel is not in accordance with the social norm. Depression, ADD, or psychosis to name a few, all have the same root causes.

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 11:31 PM ----------

Can you provide me with a document from a legitimate source that shows that information?

And also, why is this even relevant?

It's relevant because tragedy will always occur no matter how much you try to contain it.

[Nakura Chambers]

The thing is though, the data just doesn't support that goal. There is absolutely no data that says increasing gun control reduces violent crime, in fact data says the opposite.

This. Liberalism is based on emotions, though, not logic.

[N-7]

Japan also has the highest suicide rate among modern countries. Different cultures are different.

I prefer higher suicide rates to higher crime rates. In the former, you only hurt yourself while in the latter you hurt innocents around you.

[dwarven]

I prefer higher suicide rates to higher crime rates. In the former, you only hurt yourself while in the latter you hurt innocents around you.

Can't you see how flawed your logic is? It's preferable to you because you aren't suicidal.

[N-7]

Japan also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Which is more tragic do you think?

Suicide only affects the person committing and his family while mass murders causes casualties and affect the families of said casualties. So, to answer your question I think mass murders are more tragic than suicides.

[muto]

I keep saying this in every one of the 30 gun threads made in the last week.

Guns and knives are so cliche, go extract elemental chlorine gas from salt or bleach and go form acid in your enemies' lungs. Its way more creative.

I want the next school massacre to involve chemistry.

You want there to be another massacre? That's sickening. I feel sorry for you.

[N-7]

Can't you see how flawed your logic is? It's preferable to you because you aren't suicidal.

Mentally unstable people exist in every country them hurting themselves is less severe than them hurting others. I cannot fathom how you compare a mass murder to suicide and say that the later is more tragic.

[Wells]

This. Liberalism is based on emotions, though, not logic.

Except he's wrong. There's no correlation between crime rates and gun control either way.

Also lol at this "liberalism is based on emotions not logic" bullshit

[dwarven]

Mentally unstable people exist in every country them hurting themselves is less severe than them hurting others. I cannot fathom how you compare a mass murder to suicide and say that the later is more tragic.

We're talking about Japan. Suicide is more tragic there because more people die from it than from mass murders.

[yetgdhfgh]

I really didnt want to comment on gun control cause even though i dont own a gun i love to shoot recreationally on a gun range

This is a culture war and americas love affair with firearms need to be tackled

Banning assault weapons is a good start we may not see the results for at least a generation what with the proliferation of assault weapons but if a ban was in place a soccer mom may think twice about having a AK-47 in her house and the rest of the assault weapons will slowly be removed from american society

Now i dont think we should ban all guns but seriously guys there is no need for any citizen to own a weapon that can fire military grade ammo at 600 rpm

If you really need to get your jollies off then go visit a gun range and rent one and go nuts you dont need a AR-15 to stop burglars

[shimerra]

Can't you see how flawed your logic is? It's preferable to you because you aren't suicidal.

Seems like pretty solid logic. Of the two evils, self harm and and harming others chosing to harm yourself is a lesser evil to harming others. The only error he might have made was that he didn't specify violent crime, because I'd certainly prefer losing my wallet over some one killing themselves. Are you saying you'd prefer the recent school shooter to have shot all those other people over just offing himself? That's the point I believe he was trying to make.

That doesn't imply that suicide isn't a problem or that it isn't a greater problem in Japan.

[skrump]

1. You should learn what the word "proof" means.

2. I think most persons running amok won't have the guts to do it with a knife.

3. I'm pretty sure there are way more people killed by firearms than by "melee" weapons - even if you don't count war victims.

pretty sure without access to guns criminals would quickly turn to explosives but who the hell are we kidding, we could have a complete ban on guns and criminals would still manage to get them or come up with less traceable means to commit individual murders.

School shootings would simply get turned into school firebombing because lets face it a glass jug + gas and a rag are accessible by everybody.

[schwarzkopf]

Which is more tragic do you think?

Killing 5 year old kids in bulk, and not doing anything about it apart from whinging and crying - can't get much more tragic than that.

A 20/30/50 year old that kills them self isn't nice, but they are no longer innocent and at the complete mercy of their surroundings.

[ati87]

Japan also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Which is more tragic do you think?

I fail to see the connection....you can kill yourself with almost anything (probably toilet paper as well).

And you should compare how often people go on a killing spree in country A or B and not how many people kill themselves.

JUst admit it then in terms of gun violence the US is number 1!!!

[Granyala]

Guns and knives are so cliche, go extract elemental chlorine gas from salt or bleach and go form acid in your enemies' lungs. Its way more creative.

I want the next school massacre to involve chemistry.

Problem: Kids that are prone to run amok are not interested in chemistry. The ones that do have the brains for it typically can handle being laughed at and just shrug it off.

But it surely would be hilarious if one of them would start chemical warfare. Wonder what game the moronic political guys would blame then.

PS: extracting Cl² is easy, but storing it isn't. For a room to be filled rather quickly, you'd have to store it in a pressure container b/c you need lots of it and you need it to be released fast, before your prey can flee. I doubt Children have the equipment handy to do that.

Mentally unstable people exist in every country them hurting themselves is less severe than them hurting others. I cannot fathom how you compare a mass murder to suicide and say that the later is more tragic.

Well if the economy/society puts so much pressure on the young that they crack and do the ALT+F4 thing, then yes, it is more tragic that a moron getting a gun and shooting a place to pieces once in a while b/c he was bullied.

[jbombard]

Except he's wrong. There's no correlation between crime rates and gun control either way.

Also lol at this "liberalism is based on emotions not logic" bullshit

Actually that's what I said in one of my earlier posts, just didn't want to type it all over again. The data shows higher gun ownership indicates lower crime rate when you look at just the overall numbers, but the experts in the study I linked earlier go own to say that the individual data varies too much to draw any conclusions, and that there are a variety of factors. The PDF I linked is actually a very interesting read although people here don't seem to like facts, and I doubt people even read links so I'm not sure why I bother posting them.

[N-7]

We're talking about Japan. Suicide is more tragic there because more people die from it than from mass murders.

He was comparing the USA/Japan gun-crimes and then you jumped in about Japan having high suicide rates. Globally, mass murders are more tragic than suicides because in a comparison between the two mass murders inflict more damage and suffering to more people than suicide which is my point.

[dwarven]

I fail to see the connection....you can kill yourself with almost anything (probably toilet paper as well).

And you should compare how often people go on a killing spree in country A or B and not how many people kill themselves.

JUst admit it then in terms of gun violence the US is number 1!!!

There's a connection because every country has problems that are unavoidable.

[Wells]

Actually that's what I said in one of my earlier posts, just didn't want to type it all over again. The data shows higher gun ownership indicates lower crime rate when you look at just the overall numbers, but the experts in the study I linked earlier go own to say that the individual data varies too much to draw any conclusions, and that there are a variety of factors. The PDF I linked is actually a very interesting read although people here don't seem to like facts, and I doubt people even read links so I'm not sure why I bother posting them.

Higher gun ownership only correlates with lower crime in the US because gun ownership is heavier in rural areas where crime is lower anyway for socioeconomic factors. But then you look internationally and the US is probably the most dangerous first world nation for all the guns we have. Personally I'm inclined to suspect that high gun ownership drives up violent crime rates and severity but not to a huge degree and that there are better ways to go about fixing crime than heavy handed bans.

That's not to say that regulatory gun control is a bad idea. There's no reason for anyone to be able to fire off 25 rounds into a crowd without having to reload. You don't need that kind of magazine for hunting, you don't need that for defense.

[N-7]

There's a connection because every country has problems that are unavoidable.

I am pretty sure that with good management (which is what most of the world lacks) these problems can be avoided or reduced greatly.