[MW] Issues with spreading/keeping up Renewing Mist's.

[Notamonk]

I was healing some lfr's last night and I was having a really tough time trying to keep Renewing Mist's up on targets and actually getting it to spread. I don't know if its just me or this is an issue for other Mistweavers, but I was wondering if anyone had some tips/advice oh what I can do to keep it spreading and to keep it up on targets that actually need it.

What I do is try and keep it up on the tank as much as possible and by the time it comes back off of cd and I need to spread it onto other targets it falls off of the tank(s) and I need to use it on them... -_-"


Also,


What do you think about using Xuen? Personally I've been loving it. 0 mana/Chi cost of it but I feel like the 3min cd is a little too long for him..

What do you guys think of a glyph that would reduce the cd and duration of Xuen? Similar to the Shaman's Fire Elemental glyph. Would definitely make him that much more appealing as a talent choice.

[Nanaboostme]

Renewing Mists only applies (for the most part) on players who aren't in full health. Always casting it on the tank isn't always the best idea and for the most part it will spread to the tank. Make sure you use Thunder FOcus Tea as much as possible. Get some addon to track renewing mists.

Xuen is great but depends what fight. I choose Xuen or Chi Torpedo based on fight. (Raid spread apart more for xuen, raid grouped together more for chi torpedo)
Xuen is already an appealing choice and the 3minute is standard raid cd and plus he's up for 45 seconds

[dahawk]

Renewing Mists only applies (for the most part) on players who aren't in full health. Always casting it on the tank isn't always the best idea and for the most part it will spread to the tank. Make sure you use Thunder FOcus Tea as much as possible. Get some addon to track renewing mists.

Xuen is great but depends what fight. I choose Xuen or Chi Torpedo based on fight. (Raid spread apart more for xuen, raid grouped together more for chi torpedo)
Xuen is already an appealing choice and the 3minute is standard raid cd and plus he's up for 45 seconds

question does the tiger actual help ie as in healing thinking would it be his damage would do some sort of healing?

[Nanaboostme]

are you asking whether the armor debuff from tiger palm applies to xuen? To be honest i've never researched it, but I would think not, just eminence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Spotnick]

question does the tiger actual help ie as in healing thinking would it be his damage would do some sort of healing?

If your statue is up, yes, Xuen will heal via eminence.

[Notamonk]

are you asking whether the armor debuff from tiger palm applies to xuen? To be honest i've never researched it, but I would think not, just eminence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe the armor debuff applied via tiger palm would work with Xuen, but there is more often then not someone to put up a sundering armor affect or something along those lines that would help out with his overall dps/healing.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 10:14 AM ----------

I was doing some lfr's last night practicing keeping up Renewing Mist's on as many people as I could, the only issue I was having was that I was using Thunder Focus Tea too early and it would drop off everyone before I could reapply it.

Could someone recommend an addon that could help me track this on everyone? Maybe a ui addon? preferably something that isn't a memory hog.


Cheers.

[Shinchib]

Could someone recommend an addon that could help me track this on everyone? Maybe a ui addon? preferably something that isn't a memory hog.

Search Renewing Mist addons in the monk section. I ended up doing that last night and found a nice weakaura to help me track that.

[Deleted]

I was doing some lfr's last night practicing keeping up Renewing Mist's on as many people as I could, the only issue I was having was that I was using Thunder Focus Tea too early and it would drop off everyone before I could reapply it.

Could someone recommend an addon that could help me track this on everyone? Maybe a ui addon? preferably something that isn't a memory hog.


Cheers.

Get WeakAuras and use: http://pastebin.com/XF85gaza

[Kamadenhu]

The tiger benefits from any temporary buffs and procs you get, dynamically updated.

In other words, yes it does benefit from tiger palm.

The major exception to this is he will only benefit from bloodlust if he is out before the bloodlust is popped.

[Deleted]

The tiger benefits from any temporary buffs and procs you get, dynamically updated.

In other words, yes it does benefit from tiger palm.

The major exception to this is he will only benefit from bloodlust if he is out before the bloodlust is popped.

Taken from Mihir's WW guide here on the forums:

Xuen is not affected by Tigereye Brew or anything else that increases your damage by a percentage; only direct buffs to your attack power / crit rating / haste rating will be transferred.

[Totaltotemic]

What do you think about using Xuen? Personally I've been loving it. 0 mana/Chi cost of it but I feel like the 3min cd is a little too long for him..

Since the RM questions have been covered in full, and since there's a lot of confusion about Xuen, let me clarify a few things.

1) Xuen damage counts as Eminence healing. This means that 50% originates from yourself and has a 40 yard range and the other 50% originates from your statue with a 20 yard range. They are tracked in logs as Eminence and Eminence (Statue) respectively.

2) Xuen will heal for around 1 million healing in 490 ilvl gear with Int flask and food (and using a 2h weapon, more on that in #4). This increases to 1.3 or 1.4 million if his lightning can cleave.

3) Worry not about trinket procs or anything else that would affect him. He's out for just long enough for most trinkets to cover him for one full duration (not that it matters for MW since most trinket procs will be Spirit) and dynamically updates like any Hunter or Warlock pet. This also means that Bloodlust will still affect him whether he's summoned before it is active or after.

4) Xuen benefits from "attack speed" (aka things that aren't haste) on your character sheet. This includes the bonus from using a 2h and Tiger Strikes. This means that Xuen will do approx 40% more DPS/HPS if wielding a 2h for no cost. He will also do 10-20% more simply for auto-attacking for Tiger Strikes procs while he is up. I just tested this myself on a target dummy doing a full summon using my 1h/off-hand and a 2h that was equivalent, Xuen attacked 40% more total times while wielding the 2h while the average damage per hit stayed the same, resulting in 40% more total damage. This could highly influence whether or not you should be using Xuen.

In ideal circumstances, Xuen will provide a lot more free healing than Chi Torpedo possibly could, with the caveat that it is all contained in 25% uptime (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the fight). In less ideal circumstances (no cleave AND no 2h), Xuen will fall far behind Chi Torpedo, assuming you have a decent time to use it. Rushing Jade Wind is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it on any fight where mana is an issue or if you can't use Chi Burst for some reason.

[Astraios]

Since the RM questions have been covered in full, and since there's a lot of confusion about Xuen, let me clarify a few things.

1) Xuen damage counts as Eminence healing. This means that 50% originates from yourself and has a 40 yard range and the other 50% originates from your statue with a 20 yard range. They are tracked in logs as Eminence and Eminence (Statue) respectively.

2) Xuen will heal for around 1 million healing in 490 ilvl gear with Int flask and food (and using a 2h weapon, more on that in #4). This increases to 1.3 or 1.4 million if his lightning can cleave.

3) Worry not about trinket procs or anything else that would affect him. He's out for just long enough for most trinkets to cover him for one full duration (not that it matters for MW since most trinket procs will be Spirit) and dynamically updates like any Hunter or Warlock pet. This also means that Bloodlust will still affect him whether he's summoned before it is active or after.

4) Xuen benefits from "attack speed" (aka things that aren't haste) on your character sheet. This includes the bonus from using a 2h and Tiger Strikes. This means that Xuen will do approx 40% more DPS/HPS if wielding a 2h for no cost. He will also do 10-20% more simply for auto-attacking for Tiger Strikes procs while he is up. I just tested this myself on a target dummy doing a full summon using my 1h/off-hand and a 2h that was equivalent, Xuen attacked 40% more total times while wielding the 2h while the average damage per hit stayed the same, resulting in 40% more total damage. This could highly influence whether or not you should be using Xuen.

In ideal circumstances, Xuen will provide a lot more free healing than Chi Torpedo possibly could, with the caveat that it is all contained in 25% uptime (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the fight). In less ideal circumstances (no cleave AND no 2h), Xuen will fall far behind Chi Torpedo, assuming you have a decent time to use it. Rushing Jade Wind is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it on any fight where mana is an issue or if you can't use Chi Burst for some reason.

Chi torpedo can provide >3mil healing in 3 minutes, it far outweighs xuen in pure throughput, especially over time. The only potential question is whether xuen can provide burst throughput better than chi torpedo (I don't think so). As such, it's relegated to gimmick fights.

[Totaltotemic]

Chi torpedo can provide >3mil healing in 3 minutes, it far outweighs xuen in pure throughput, especially over time. The only potential question is whether xuen can provide burst throughput better than chi torpedo (I don't think so). As such, it's relegated to gimmick fights.

Really? 3 million? Your Chi Torpedo heals for 250k each use and never overheals? You must have like 30,000 Int or something, damn.

[Cyriaa]

Since the RM questions have been covered in full, and since there's a lot of confusion about Xuen, let me clarify a few things.

1) Xuen damage counts as Eminence healing. This means that 50% originates from yourself and has a 40 yard range and the other 50% originates from your statue with a 20 yard range. They are tracked in logs as Eminence and Eminence (Statue) respectively.

2) Xuen will heal for around 1 million healing in 490 ilvl gear with Int flask and food (and using a 2h weapon, more on that in #4). This increases to 1.3 or 1.4 million if his lightning can cleave.

3) Worry not about trinket procs or anything else that would affect him. He's out for just long enough for most trinkets to cover him for one full duration (not that it matters for MW since most trinket procs will be Spirit) and dynamically updates like any Hunter or Warlock pet. This also means that Bloodlust will still affect him whether he's summoned before it is active or after.

4) Xuen benefits from "attack speed" (aka things that aren't haste) on your character sheet. This includes the bonus from using a 2h and Tiger Strikes. This means that Xuen will do approx 40% more DPS/HPS if wielding a 2h for no cost. He will also do 10-20% more simply for auto-attacking for Tiger Strikes procs while he is up. I just tested this myself on a target dummy doing a full summon using my 1h/off-hand and a 2h that was equivalent, Xuen attacked 40% more total times while wielding the 2h while the average damage per hit stayed the same, resulting in 40% more total damage. This could highly influence whether or not you should be using Xuen.

In ideal circumstances, Xuen will provide a lot more free healing than Chi Torpedo possibly could, with the caveat that it is all contained in 25% uptime (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the fight). In less ideal circumstances (no cleave AND no 2h), Xuen will fall far behind Chi Torpedo, assuming you have a decent time to use it. Rushing Jade Wind is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it on any fight where mana is an issue or if you can't use Chi Burst for some reason.

That's interesting (the whole xuen healing through eminence higher with a 2H more).
Would you mind providing some logs so I can take a look at that? That's something I never really thought of and would like to look in more, it'd dictate if I use loshan with an oh or jin'ya.
I don't understand why people think chi torpedo is good. I hate it, the healing from it isn't very good but more importantly it takes away a really really nice "oh shit, get out of bad shit" button (roll), especially if you keep it on CD for the additional free heals. RJW I found to be fine but VERY VERY situational, like others said, if you have mana issues then SCK is probably not a very good idea for heals.

[Astraios]

Really? 3 million? Your Chi Torpedo heals for 250k each use and never overheals? You must have like 30,000 Int or something, damn.

Well first, yes it does well over 250k/use.
Second, heres some logs.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2066&e=2429
Total healing ~10million over 6minutes (including overhealing), which is around 5mil/3minutes, well over what xuen could ever hope to provide.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 12:18 AM ----------

That's interesting (the whole xuen healing through eminence higher with a 2H more).
Would you mind providing some logs so I can take a look at that? That's something I never really thought of and would like to look in more, it'd dictate if I use loshan with an oh or jin'ya.
I don't understand why people think chi torpedo is good. I hate it, the healing from it isn't very good but more importantly it takes away a really really nice "oh shit, get out of bad shit" button (roll), especially if you keep it on CD for the additional free heals. RJW I found to be fine but VERY VERY situational, like others said, if you have mana issues then SCK is probably not a very good idea for heals.

The healing from it isn't very good huh?
10mil healing / 6 minutes for free isn't very good?
What're you smoking and where can I get some.

Further, roll is the most unreliable piece of crud in raids. Rolled out of bad? No, jk, you were still rollling when bad went off so you're dead,

[Totaltotemic]

Well first, yes it does well over 250k/use.
Second, heres some logs.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2066&e=2429
Total healing ~10million over 6minutes (including overhealing), which is around 5mil/3minutes, well over what xuen could ever hope to provide.

I really hate having to do this, but let's deconstruct this really quick.

1) 30,000 Int wasn't very far from the mark. Fully raid buffed you'd be at 21,879 Int, plus Jade Spirit procs. You also have a 517 weapon. Remember that my given Xuen numbers were for 490 item level, not 502 with a 517 weapon. There's a big difference there.

2) Garalon is the single most ideal fight in the entire game for Chi Torpedo. Yes, it is very good on fights with huge raid-wide damage constant throughout the fight, bravo. Only 25% overhealing for a blanket AoE heal doesn't happen on most fights. Also, counting overhealing just makes it an awful comparison because Xuen doesn't overheal, it doesn't have to do 5 million raw healing per use, or even 3.7 million because...

3) Xuen being a cooldown skews it heavily against a 6 minute fight, as the 3rd use simply can't happen until the 6 minute mark. If you extrapolate your Chi Torpedo numbers to assume a constant continuous use to 7 minutes (assuming 3.7 million actual healing per 3 minutes, or 1.23 per minute) then you'd end up with 8.67 million Chi Torpedo healing, whereas Xuen would have only needed to do 2.89 million healing per use, which really isn't a stretch for your spellpower levels.

To say that Chi Torpedo is "well over what Xuen could ever hope to provide" is simply false, linking an absolute best-case scenario for Chi Torpedo with absolutely no comparison to Xuen and being disingenuous with your numbers (claiming overhealing as part of effective healing that matters). Like I said, in Xuen's ideal situation, it'll beat out Chi Torpedo easily. In Chi Torpedo's ideal situation, it will beat Xuen. You'll have to actually use it once to see what kind of healing it does in your gear, but I wouldn't write Xuen off just because Chi Torpedo is good.

[Nanaboostme]

2) Garalon is the single most ideal fight in the entire game for Chi Torpedo.

LOL, what.......

[Totaltotemic]

LOL, what.......

Heavy raid-wide damage, large clumps of melee, very little potential for overhealing, and nothing to move out of that would require Roll. Are you just going to play dumb in some feigned disbelief or say something meaningful?

[Deleted]

I really hate having to do this, but let's deconstruct this really quick.

1) 30,000 Int wasn't very far from the mark. Fully raid buffed you'd be at 21,879 Int, plus Jade Spirit procs. You also have a 517 weapon. Remember that my given Xuen numbers were for 490 item level, not 502 with a 517 weapon. There's a big difference there.

2) Garalon is the single most ideal fight in the entire game for Chi Torpedo. Yes, it is very good on fights with huge raid-wide damage constant throughout the fight, bravo. Only 25% overhealing for a blanket AoE heal doesn't happen on most fights. Also, counting overhealing just makes it an awful comparison because Xuen doesn't overheal, it doesn't have to do 5 million raw healing per use, or even 3.7 million because...

3) Xuen being a cooldown skews it heavily against a 6 minute fight, as the 3rd use simply can't happen until the 6 minute mark. If you extrapolate your Chi Torpedo numbers to assume a constant continuous use to 7 minutes (assuming 3.7 million actual healing per 3 minutes, or 1.23 per minute) then you'd end up with 8.67 million Chi Torpedo healing, whereas Xuen would have only needed to do 2.89 million healing per use, which really isn't a stretch for your spellpower levels.

To say that Chi Torpedo is "well over what Xuen could ever hope to provide" is simply false, linking an absolute best-case scenario for Chi Torpedo with absolutely no comparison to Xuen and being disingenuous with your numbers (claiming overhealing as part of effective healing that matters). Like I said, in Xuen's ideal situation, it'll beat out Chi Torpedo easily. In Chi Torpedo's ideal situation, it will beat Xuen. You'll have to actually use it once to see what kind of healing it does in your gear, but I wouldn't write Xuen off just because Chi Torpedo is good.

Actually, Xuen can reach that healing numbers if you use it on a leg. 100% damage = 100% healing

[openair]

I don't know if its just me or this is an issue for other Mistweavers, but I was wondering if anyone had some tips/advice oh what I can do to keep it spreading and to keep it up on targets that actually need it.

What I do is try and keep it up on the tank as much as possible and by the time it comes back off of cd and I need to spread it onto other targets it falls off of the tank(s) and I need to use it on them... -_-"

What?? Renewing Mists is an 8 second cooldown and each of the 3 hots has a ~18 second (haste) duration. You cast once on the tank, once the raid, and it comes off cooldown again 2 seconds before the first one falls off the tank. Other then the glyph and thunder focus tea there are no tips or tricks. Other than it sounds like you want to "blanket" a 25 man raid like other classes do with their hots. Which is impossible. Even 10 mans, you're only going to 'keep it up' on 6 of 10 players.