Rise of The Hutt Cartel: First Digital Expansion

[Dorfadin]

This has gotta be the biggest expansion in the history of mmo's 1 zone and 5 levels lol :P

[Argroth]

There's a few steps they can take to make people play SWTOR again, and even earn them more money in the long run.

1.Remove those godawful restrictions for F2P players. Award bonus cartel points for people who paid money to lift them. This will attract old and new players to the game, and create a better environment, where sub players are not punished for playing with F2P-players.

2.make the store Cosmetic/Convenience only. It's OK to ask money for costumes, titles, pets, XP potions, etc. Don't put in things like extra character slots, gold cap increase, operation vouchers or whatever they call them. this stuff should be free.

3.don't ask subscribers to pay for content updates. Not for expansions, not for DLC. Subscribers pay monthly to have all this stuff for free.
Put those updates in the Cartel market so the subscribers can use their monthly cartel points for it.

I would be much more content with this F2P model.

Almost all other F2P games make all their money off of cosmetic stuff, I dunno why F2P players in Swtor get so screwed.

If some dummy wants to pay $15 for an imaginary pink fuzzy hat let them fund the game. Then let the rest of the people actually play the game without hounding them for cartel coins when they want to to anything but the bare minimum (which makes the game grueling and boring).

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 06:12 PM ----------

This has gotta be the biggest expansion in the history of mmo's 1 zone and 5 levels lol :P

Oh and 2 stories instead of the typical 10 stories they have on one planet! (2 faction stories and 8 class stories on shared planets)

[Kelimbror]

We haven't even talked about the fact that the potential for there to be hardly any quests, filled with lots of bonus quests is high. It's one planet, so I'm sure every meaningful quest has a chain of 5 quests that are Kill 100 of these, collect 50 of these, now kill 100 of these with this item, now kill a boss, now go back to where you came from.

10 hours later, when the bonus quest is done you have gained a level!

[Bizzaro Stormy]

. . . Just sub!

I can't get over the sense of entitlement some people have. "Why should I have to pay for this qol feature when subs get it for free?" Well, that's because you're not paying for shit and subs are! You want more content... pay for it like the rest of us do!

Now, as far as this whole content portion of this xpac/patch. It's one planet that's roughly the size of some of the larger planets already in game. People seem to forget that on all of these planets we have quested on, we've not circumnavigated any of them. We have been relegated to the small quest areas/hubs that were open to us. Maybe this new planet will be bigger in scope, meaning, we will actually get to see more of it if they have more quest areas/hubs scattered over the surface of Makeb. . . .

This is exactly the right attitude to have. Although there is no prior evidence of planets being any different than a couple small quest hubs, and maybe a log trek north before a long trek south, we can always hope that this time will be different. Pre-ordering seems very much in order, especially if you are already paying a monthly fee.

There is a limit, at some point, where portions of the remaining dedicated subscriber base will say "wow, it feels like I'm getting fleeced, I'm gonna unsub" but to be perfectly honest, EA is doing a fantastic job of toeing that line without reaching it. My off-the-cuff prediction is that the remaining subscription base is willing to pay approximately $60/mo for SWTOR, as long as there is some way of analogizing the content EA is delivering with something another MMO is doing (Christmas Lawnmower is like WoW's Sparkle Pony, Makeb DLC is like half of the MoP expansion or like an Adventure Pack, other games also have gambling packs . . . the great thing about analogies is that they're so easy to make). EA is smart enough to not just straight-up increase subscription rates; there are lots of ways to generate additional revenue from a dedicated playerbase.

Again, you're not going to get any new subs from this type of model, but you can get significantly more money from the remainder of your playerbase, again because of aggressive analogizing. $10 for DLC for subscribers is just about as much as one delicious meal at a fast food restaurant! SWTOR is a hobby, I have no problem spending $30/mo on gambling packs because I might get that really cool looking item, and this is my version of a hobby! I want them to release more class stories in the future, so they need my money!

Whether the remaining subscribers are currently, actually able to afford what EA is getting them to spend, the fact remains that these players continue to perceive value from the money that they are spending, and EA has no reason at all to stop catering to them. At this point, where SWTOR subscriptions probably have stabilized, losing a few extra subs means nothing if, in exchange, remaining subs are more than happy to cover the difference with their wallets.

I'm not saying I agree with this philosophy, nor that most people would (EVE Monocle-gate anyone?), but this particular playerbase does accept this philosophy, and there is certainly no harm in EA catering to it. I mean, if I was offering you money, wouldn't you jump on the opportunity to take it?

[Boramir]

We haven't even talked about the fact that the potential for there to be hardly any quests, filled with lots of bonus quests is high. It's one planet, so I'm sure every meaningful quest has a chain of 5 quests that are Kill 100 of these, collect 50 of these, now kill 100 of these with this item, now kill a boss, now go back to where you came from.

10 hours later, when the bonus quest is done you have gained a level!

Please tell me there's an MMO that doesn't have that type of progression... please!!!

[Kelimbror]

Please tell me there's an MMO that doesn't have that type of progression... please!!!

It's fine in other games as it is part of the design, normally predicated on being somewhat involved in the story of your hub. In this game, where the story is supposed to really shine, it just comes off as too lazy to give a story for all of your experience.

They should have just made the initial level cap 40. I don't know why MMO's are afraid to go below the magical 50. Not sure why they even went down to 50 when WoW started at 60. If it was easy to go to 50, why not 40? I mean if the length of time is correct, why does the number really matter?

[RoninaThorstone]

Please tell me there's an MMO that doesn't have that type of progression... please!!!

Firefall.
+10 char

[FusedMass]

Here's my deal with whole digital expansion:

When they first brought in Free to Play they said a number of people wanted to play but didn't want pay 15 dollars a month. So I'm thinking they will mirror what GW2 has done with "Free to Play" making the entire game free to play. Then simply we get the stuff we always got for free. (Even to non subs) but if we wanted to access something like "XP boosts" or "Way we looked apperance etc" then it would cost money but have no bearing on stats.

Then it slowly was changed to there's a ton of stuff on Caretl Market. I encourage people buying because it supports the game. But they seem to have a sale every few day's with them selling something new. There's a new holiday bundle for example new mount with lights etc. I understand not everyone need's it but they also are putting level one armor in purple worn by any class.

After a while I have to wonder if we are going to get regular updates aka patches without paying extra for it. They called this a digital expansion with a raised level cap and a new planet. My estimate it will likely not feature companion side quests but one path that you can enjoy. It's certainty new but not "ground breaking" not like they're adding a ton of stuff.

My concern is they might be too invested in Cartel Market to actually make things you can get with a normal sub. Why build it. If you can just get a digital item on market in place of actual content. We just got new PVP map they promised us for months (last month)

[Valeron]

Firefall.
+10 char

While I really enjoy Firefall, I don't really think of it as an mmo.

[btf]

@jvbastel

here's a few steps they can take to make people play SWTOR again, and even earn them more money in the long run.

1.Remove those godawful restrictions for F2P players. Award bonus cartel points for people who paid money to lift them. This will attract old and new players to the game, and create a better environment, where sub players are not punished for playing with F2P-players.

2.make the store Cosmetic/Convenience only. It's OK to ask money for costumes, titles, pets, XP potions, etc. Don't put in things like extra character slots, gold cap increase, operation vouchers or whatever they call them. this stuff should be free.

3.don't ask subscribers to pay for content updates. Not for expansions, not for DLC. Subscribers pay monthly to have all this stuff for free.
Put those updates in the Cartel market so the subscribers can use their monthly cartel points for it.

agree with point 1.
agree with a few points from 2 - dont agree with teh point about the ops and whatever, you pay for those on other f2p games so why shouldnt they pay for them here.
dont agree with point 3 - we have to pay for extra content, even if ppl class it as a dlc, i pay monthly for WoW and i dont get all the expansions for free so why shoud EA do it for us here.

i think they should have something in place where ppl can earn cartel coins though, and then spend them on items like expansions, content, ops etc - sort of like you pay to be able to do hc fp and/or ops and at the end you get "x" amount of coins which you can spend at the market

[RoninaThorstone]

While I really enjoy Firefall, I don't really think of it as an mmo.

Okay... But it is.

[Valeron]

Okay... But it is.

I suppose I should amend it. It's not an mmorpg. So while it is an mmofps I don't think it's fair to compare it to an mmorpg.

[Repefe]

I suppose I should amend it. It's not an mmorpg. So while it is an mmofps I don't think it's fair to compare it to an mmorpg.

Investigative missions in TSW another example.

[Bizzaro Stormy]

here's a few steps they can take to make people play SWTOR again, and even earn them more money in the long run.

Your post assumes that SWTOR is trying to bring in a lot more subscribers, when in reality, it seems to make more sense for them to simply get more money from existing subscribers - which will also gain them more money in the long run.

Psychologically, the remaining playerbase for SWTOR is in crisis mode; they've been ridiculed, mocked, and been compelled to defend every action EA has undertaken since beta. When the vast majority of SWTOR's critics left the game, the official forums became more of an insular, like-minded type of environment, and the remaining playerbase has done a decent job of "circling the wagons" and making themselves immune to most criticisms of the game.

Take that mindset - people who 1) adore the game the are subscribed to, and 2) are willing to defend it at all extremes, and assuming they also 3) have disposable income, there is no reason why EA can't get a lot more money out of what they have versus trying to attract more, especially from a cost-benefit viewpoint.

Now, add the fact that F2P is clearly designed to create a sort of second-class citizen . . . this means that now all those remaining subscribers can say "hey, look at them, absolute morons, getting fleeced by EA when the smart thing to do is SUBSCRIBE!" and you're getting all sort of reinforcement towards the subscription mentality.

Like I said before, EA isn't actively out for more subscriptions, but before long they will have figured out exactly how much annual cash they can pull out of their current subscribers (and I suspect it is quite a lot). And this isn't a bad thing, because the remaining subscribers want this and want as much money going into SWTOR as possible, in the hopes of future content.

[Argroth]

Here's my deal with whole digital expansion:

When they first brought in Free to Play they said a number of people wanted to play but didn't want pay 15 dollars a month. So I'm thinking they will mirror what GW2 has done with "Free to Play" making the entire game free to play. Then simply we get the stuff we always got for free. (Even to non subs) but if we wanted to access something like "XP boosts" or "Way we looked apperance etc" then it would cost money but have no bearing on stats.

My concern is they might be too invested in Cartel Market to actually make things you can get with a normal sub. Why build it. If you can just get a digital item on market in place of actual content. We just got new PVP map they promised us for months (last month)

If only they were smart and made it (Kinda) like your first paragraph (QoL and things like if we want to show our helmet or not should be included in F2P, it's not like they have someone manually erasing the helmet every time we click "don't show helmet").

Instead they screw the F2P players and keep the subscriber game sub-par.

[FusedMass]

If only they were smart and made it (Kinda) like your first paragraph (QoL and things like if we want to show our helmet or not should be included in F2P, it's not like they have someone manually erasing the helmet every time we click "don't show helmet").

Instead they screw the F2P players and keep the subscriber game sub-par.

I disagree with some that the remaining players are being forced on EA's will etc as some hinted out. The game is seeking out new and older. It's apparent for some reason it wants get most out of the existing user base then try to appeal in a good way for the people to pay a sub. Clearly I can see the difference what is a better deal.

However not much we can do in this situation. We had almost zero information including prices and not like we had a say in the matter. We patiently waited months and even though system is twisted. Its nice to see many players running around even if its only spend money on random item. It does boost the player base. So It worked just not in the way we had hoped.

[papajohn4]

just a small note about gambling packs complain...they also exist in other f2p/b2p. Lotro and gw2 have chests that drop for you in the world and you can also sell/buy at AH. then you need a key to open them and guess what?those key are being sold on the shop. Granted, there is a small chance you get a key in-game but the ratio is 1 key every 100 chests. I am against gambling, but lets not pretend that swtor invent them in mmorpgs.

[Valeron]

I am against gambling, but lets not pretend that swtor invent them in mmorpgs.

Aye, they've been in numerous games before swtor. And I hate them in every single one of those games. The issue is that they sell, and they sell well, so they will continue to be offered in games.

[Bizzaro Stormy]

just a small note about gambling packs complain...they also exist in other f2p/b2p. Lotro and gw2 have chests that drop for you in the world and you can also sell/buy at AH. then you need a key to open them and guess what?those key are being sold on the shop. Granted, there is a small chance you get a key in-game but the ratio is 1 key every 100 chests. I am against gambling, but lets not pretend that swtor invent them in mmorpgs.

Some people may complain, but most will draw analogies to other MMOs and be fine with it. And it honestly is a very clever way to allow current subscribers to "pay" EA more money, in exchange for something they want. Or, even if some subs don't especially "want" gambling packs (keep in mind, a lot of people seem to like adding a second, real-money RNG component to getting gear and items in this game), they'll still pay for them, assuming there is enough incentive. EA's job is to find exactly how little "bang" they can give subscribers for their "buck" and then roll with it. Like I said early, I suspect the remaining subscribers will gladly pay upwards of $60 a month (some a lot more, some less), and it would be stupid for EA to leave that money on the table.

[Edge-]

Guess what... the option for you to be able to have all those things you want is there (who knew)!!! Just sub!

They tried that once, it didn't work. At all. That's why we're in our current situation. So telling people to "Just sub", when clearly they didn't want to subscribe to begin with, isn't really doing anything...