Blade Flurry should not be nerfed that much.

[Deleted]

Perhaps a 75% nerf is a bit much. Maybe just have it at 30-40% of damage transferring. Or Blizzard could just do what it should and make it an actual CD instead of "click once for loldps."

Perhaps? at it stands 25% of your damage going to a second target at the cost of 20% energy regen is a pure dps loss. Rogues will do more damage with the extra energy flowing in then that 25% would bring. Maybe once were near the end of the tier and regenning 30-40 energy per second with the hugely inflated stats it will be worth taking the regen hit. That fact alone gives me hope that this is some sorta typo. As for the second bit i quoted Blade flurry used to be a cooldown and imo it shoulda stayed as a cooldown. Never did understand why they changed it like they did cause ever since they did theyve balanced combat dps around bladeflurry.

Bottom line there isnt a rogue out there that wont aggree a nerf was needed. But to suggest that a 75% nerf is nothing to moan about is retarded. There isnt one person on here wouldnt be pissed if their favorite class/specs main spell was neutered by 75%.

[Christan]

which spec in this whole game are you referring to when you say "less button spamming"?

assassination is spamming muti and envenom, with the random rupture thrown in - there's not even a revealing strike to mix things up.

dispatch procs. though i agree with poster below you about timing / energy pooling to keep more uptime on envenom buff.
combat has revealing strikes to take the place of dispatch but not as much timing going on(well technically i think its bandits guile, want to wait for full energy before pushing red, and want to push out of green faster...a bit of timing / energy pooling can be used for both)
later in the xpack though combat rogues will be getting energy capped again, so takes all of that timing out.

[Polarthief]

What if they end up making Blade Flurry an AoE instead of a cleave?

Then it should still be buffed to 50% to bring it in line with like, every other cleave/AoE in the game.

[Deleted]

Pvers whining get on my nerves. as long as you keep your raid spot who cares

Infracted: keep it to the changes and off insults folks. A few other posts are... edgy. Clean up your comments.

[Dorfie]

Obviously rogues should deal double damage when there are 2 targets to cleave when no one else can

[eijin]

They're not even close to being terrible or mediocre. All of them have ranked on at least one fight. Combat is just retarded OP with cleaves.

combat really isnt that omg insane. BF is ~ a 50-60% dps increase over its single target damage (given only ~75% of damage cleaves over, and losing the energy). Arms warriors can do similar (with less efficiency), and many classes such as boomkins and warlocks can multi DoT for nicely increased damage.

is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hathump/simple you by chance? trying to see (as far as you getting similar results). if so it looks like your lock and warrior regularly beat you (i do similiar shy of using an LFR fist and our boomkin regularly beats me).

---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 10:14 PM ----------

Obviously rogues should deal double damage when there are 2 targets to cleave when no one else can

nope, they should clearly do -less- damage while cleaving. how did you get double damage anyway? it doesnt copy poison or bleeds, on top of lowering your energy regen..

[Bauwagast]

I can only agree with what some others have said. Blade Flurry in its current form is too overpowered. It was nice to feel VERY useful to your raid in some fights, but it felt silly too.

Reducing the transferred skill/white damage to the secondary target by 75% while having a 20% energy regen reduction makes it feel like a worthless skill that I'd never touch again, so I'm fairly certain that it was just a typo. At least I hope so... If the damage reduction is only 25% (maybe 50%), that's just fine with me. There should be a benefit to dps to use blade flurry though, since it'd be silly to have single target dps of combat and "cleaving with blade flurry"-dps be the same.

Bringing back the old school use of it on a 2 minute cool down with a haste buff, would also be fine with me, or the WoTLK version where there was no penalty to energy regen, but it was on a 30 sec cd, with a 10 sec duration.

I like the idea that it could hit more than 2 targets for a smaller amount of damage, but I also feel that Assassination should be the AoE spec, unless we're going in the direction of all specs being able to do the same, but with different play styles.

[sean13128]

No, this is a massive nerf.

Understand that 4% extra damage on a spec that is undertuned single target is a fix, not a buff. Most rogues correctly go another spec for single target fights.

Blade flurry is the best two target conal strike right now. Post nerf, it won't even be a thing. The best advice for a combat rogue postpatch will be "go play another spec".

Not to jump off topic but you know it's not limited to a cone right? it strikes an enemy near you, could be behind side etc. mob - you-> mob and you hit both.

[whathump]

combat really isnt that omg insane. BF is ~ a 50-60% dps increase over its single target damage (given only ~75% of damage cleaves over, and losing the energy). Arms warriors can do similar (with less efficiency), and many classes such as boomkins and warlocks can multi DoT for nicely increased damage.

is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hathump/simple you by chance? trying to see (as far as you getting similar results). if so it looks like your lock and warrior regularly beat you (i do similiar shy of using an LFR fist and our boomkin regularly beats me).

Yeah, that's me.

I use a heroic stone guard dagger as my main hand since I haven't been able to get a combat weapon better than 463. Fully upgraded, the dagger does more average damage than a 463 fist weapon, which is pretty sad. I stopped reforging for stone guard as well since I don't consider it worth it since the boss dies easily and I'm assassination for every other fight. The warrior is actually our tank, though.

[Deleted]

Then it should still be buffed to 50% to bring it in line with like, every other cleave/AoE in the game.

Oh really, do tell me, what other aoe can be used while still doing full single target dps as a melee class?

[Deleted]

Then it should still be buffed to 50% to bring it in line with like, every other cleave/AoE in the game.

You know, most speccs don't have a cleave at all. They gain no dps at all by getting a second target besides them.

For me, they have to make BF hit 4 or up to 5 targets for say 30%.

That way it is a dps gain on two targets, but even a first step to good AOE/Cleave. On 4 targets, it would be even a clear dps gain over now.

The problem is that only very few classes have a cleave that works on two targets. The design itself seems plainout stupid to me.

BF is much more interesting if it was a high damage short duration cd.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 10:07 AM ----------

nope, they should clearly do -less- damage while cleaving. how did you get double damage anyway? it doesnt copy poison or bleeds, on top of lowering your energy regen..

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone.../7/30/default/

Look at where e.g. BM hunters are. Classes without cleave suck on such fights, it's no surprise they are getting ignored for those absurd numbers.

All it leads to is class stacking.

And rets are @ 133k, combat rogues at 198k. It's abozt 50% more dps on average. So two rogues replace three Retris.

Well, of course for those who those absurd numbers, it's cool, it's fun!

For those who don't, who get replaced by combat rogues - no, it's no fun at all. Our 25m raid had 2 retri palas, both quit in the last weeks - because their dps sucks. It's no fun to be the last place in recount - always. Without any chance of getting high dps except for the first half minute of the fights, while burst is active.

[Feindy]

well played blizzard, without bf u can delete combat spec and give demon hunter spec instead, rly well played

[vbn]

Its 25% now for shock value so it won't sting so much when they bring it to 50% IMO

[n0n3]

Have you guys seen the dmg blade furry does in any cleave fights, its double the amount of other classes.
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...5H/dps/?page=1

[Feindy]

yeah, affli 190k, combat 230k, its nearly 3 times, isnt it?

[draganid]

to be fair, 100% cleave damage was pretty nuts, but this nerf was certainly overkill. ive never played a max level rogue but 2 things are very clear about this 1. it was op before and 2. it sucks ass now.

and because ive seen many people spreading misinformation about sweeping strikes ill leave this here http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12328 notice how it only does 50% damage and costs 30 rage, lasting 10 seconds with no cd. 30 rage is alot to keep it up for extended periods of time without sacrificing too much damage from not being able to spend rage. putting blade fury at 50% damage would make it roughly equal to sweeping strikes. and besides, why even compare to sweeping strikes, nobody plays arms, even on garalon. fury doesnt even have sweeping strikes.

[Kael]

Klatar - this isn't a full justification for the situations (ret sustained could come up a bit), but if rets feel like they're going to get replaced for their DPS, they DO have other options. The same gear they DPS in can very easily be used for a haste-tank with the hit/expertise caps, which is VERY popular atm (and don't forget the occasional 25 fight that takes 3 tanks~), and unless they run with multiple holy pallies, they should be generating a healing set on the side, while Holy pallies are also not being shunned to the wings.

If rogue cleave goes down the drain, the rogue runs single target. If that single target isn't matching other classes, the rogue is benched. There is no offspec.

Before I get jumped on for this: I am still in the camp that 100% BF is both boring and OP when it can be used, but I don't think the current change is a solution that either makes us more interesting or more useful without it.

[SilkDath]

I am just glad I dont have to have combat offspec anymore. I hate the play-style, it is clunky and disorganised. RvS is so incredibly clunky and badly designed, I just hate the spec.

Give me Assassination and Sub offspec!!

[Deleted]

Klatar - this isn't a full justification for the situations (ret sustained could come up a bit), but if rets feel like they're going to get replaced for their DPS, they DO have other options. The same gear they DPS in can very easily be used for a haste-tank with the hit/expertise caps, which is VERY popular atm (and don't forget the occasional 25 fight that takes 3 tanks~), and unless they run with multiple holy pallies, they should be generating a healing set on the side, while Holy pallies are also not being shunned to the wings.

If rogue cleave goes down the drain, the rogue runs single target. If that single target isn't matching other classes, the rogue is benched. There is no offspec.

Before I get jumped on for this: I am still in the camp that 100% BF is both boring and OP when it can be used, but I don't think the current change is a solution that either makes us more interesting or more useful without it.

Yeah!

Did you listen, Ret Palas? You should do shit DPS, and when you're not fine with that, go tanking!

I want to have my fun so make me overpowered. Buzt please please nerf those shitty warrios and mages that one shot me or do more dps than me. They should get nerfed, not me!

The WOW Community in such forums is ridicilous.

[Deleted]

BF should be brought to 40-50 % but on 3 targets and with 100 % energy regen and baseline for all classes, period.