Affliction - why so high on meters?

[Deleted]

mages were also top in Firelands, those big parses at gatekeeper blowing everyone out of the other, but ppl forget that.

I'm not going to sit and argue that they weren't strong - a bit too strong - in Firelands because they were. But the thing is people bring up DS and ICC as periods where mages shone and they just forget how the class even works. Either way, OT, it does feel like affli locks are a bit too strong on some fights.

[Purpleisbetter]

Nothing wrong with KJC. Perfectly fine - all three level 90 talents are well-represented, and it would be silly to change that.

You really...don't understand a damn thing about Warlock.

You can't even remotely think about something like that if you were actually playing an affliction on raids. Its...blasphemy, something very horrid to say.

And with this i think we wasted more then 5 pages of thread trying to explain you something you wouldn't understand in the first place because you probably ain't raiding with a lock yet

[soulcrusher]

People who have stuck with their locks through thick and thin deserve a break. They've always been under represented as a class and have probably attracted a more skilled player as a result. Other classes need to get off the fotm bandwagon and learn their class rather than cry for nerfs to locks.

[nightfalls]

What people don't realise, one of them being you is how well mages scale with gear (especially crit). It reduces the RNG factor by a lot. And because there were so many mages doing DS hc (cus it was lolfaceroll anw), the final tier of an expansion where ratings are high, you can't expect even some of them to not have incredible RNG (a lot of crits) and you just can't compete with that unless your class is just OP at that current time; which I am not saying it is but that's the reason mages were top during that time. It's also the reason they were top in ICC, 80% crits...yeah gg.

What the hell are you smoking?

You first declare that "I don't realize" that RNG is reduced by crit.

Then you go on to say that mages were top, as I said earlier despite "not realizing anything," because the top parses were those parses where mages were good and had "incredible RNG."

So what is it? RNG, or no RNG...?

But the thing is people bring up DS and ICC as periods where mages shone and they just forget how the class even works. Either way, OT, it does feel like affli locks are a bit too strong on some fights.

Ok, explain how aff locks work and why they are strong where they are. Oh wait, you probably forgot.

[warlockSTAR]

I like this thread, So many mad bads here

Infracted.

[Deleted]

duskmoon i tip my hat to you xD

so if we ignore every parse that is above affliction then affliction is king! If we also ignore that most players are playing affliction compared to destro/demo so on average tbe numbers will be betted then yeah affliction is king again. We also can ignore that according to some that simcraft isnt a tool that is a rough guide, but actually tge exact truth and each spec falls into the order listed then ignore the specs above affliction its king again. Hunters cant accuratly simmed apparently.

We have been nerfed and its not enough we will be nerfed again. Im fine with the nerf we had. But i see alot of whinning in this thread with alot of misinformation mainly from a few people. trying to use raidbots/simcraft/wol to support there version of events.

i think void talks alot of sence and duskmoon has made my day with the other quotes. Be careful what you wish for, blizzard will do as they fit no matter what we say. they always have/will/do.

[soulcrusher]

usual story every time locks get half decent and mages tears lead to a nerf. mage has always been OP, locks every now and again catch a break. clearly some mages havent adjusted to not being num 1 all the time.

[Tya]

usual story every time locks get half decent and mages tears lead to a nerf. mage has always been OP, locks every now and again catch a break. clearly some mages havent adjusted to not being num 1 all the time.

That's really stupid and childish reasoning you have going there and I'm glad that people like you aren't the ones designing the classes. And yes, my main is a warlock.

[soulcrusher]

That's really stupid and childish reasoning you have going there and I'm glad that people like you aren't the ones designing the classes. And yes, my main is a warlock.

hmkay, which bit of reasoning? mages dont whine? mages arent op? locks dont deserve a break?

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter who was op 2 years ago or 3 years ago. Currently it's clearly affliction.

They nerfed fire dramatical though it was only a few percent ahead of affli. Yet they didn't touch Affli.

The question is: if fire was 3% ahead of affli and fire got nerfed by 10% overall dps, why should they let Affli untouched? Fire had the sae problem like Affli: high mobility, multidotting cleave, nearly weaknesses, even high single target dps. Affli as a high mobility multi dot class shouldn't be top on single target fights. There should be rogues, some melees and so on, with arcane being ahead on low movement fights and affli pulling ahead on high movement fights, multi dotting fights and so on. Then it would be balanced.

[soulcrusher]

It doesn't matter who was op 2 years ago or 3 years ago. Currently it's clearly affliction.

They nerfed fire dramatical though it was only a few percent ahead of affli.

Your a mage calling for affliction nerfs. I rest my case.

[Cwimge]

And the irony is after the MoP chances I find affy tedious as all sin to play now compared to the simple exploding fun of destro, and while I've yet to test this in even LFR back in the heroics it seemed to be holding me up just fine. It's just the "flow" of dots and your rotation feels very much gone imo. Severely limited haunts dependent on RNG, no carry-over or auto applying of any dot that does not require use of a now-vital shard. That or I just never adapted to the new affy

[Teye]

The conversation in this thread is a long way from constructive. Logic is bashing its face against stubbornness. Honestly, I'm concerned there are people trolling in this thread at this point. How many times can people make viable arguments on why Aff needs a nerf before people stop insisting that its fine?

[luckydevours]

Stop this shit about affliction needs a nerf! Have you ever seen an affliction warlock with an oberserver pet dominating the meters?! Get it?! Affliction is perfectly balanced, even underpowered in PvP! Its a single talent - Grimoire of Sacrifice - that pushes a perfectly fine spec to the top, so stop calling for affliction nerfs a tell us how much you want GoSac to be nerfed to bring it in line!

[Jessicka]

Wish blizz redestribute affliction dmg between spells - that corny MG design gutted spec for pvp purpose. Shelved my beloved lock since beta, i saw where it's going. Unfortunatly.

No, they implemented MG because too many people moaned for DL as filler during Cataclysm when that aberation of a spec appeared. We still had a mechanic to temper multidotting in the form of Shadow Embrace and Haunt, and there were weekly whine posts about that too; but really what MG is doing is nothing new.

Back on topic though: Affliction is not overpowered relative to other classes; it's high, maybe even top on some fights but someone has to be top. That's fine. However, it is too far away of Demo and Destro which are both also fine but under-represented due to Affliction being so far ahead. The minor nerf to Sacrifice should bring the spec in line to where it stands with the other Grimoire talents, which is in line with the other specs according to Simulationcraft. That realignment will allow more players to shift to 'prefered' specs over 'optimal' specs and we'll likely see improvements on Raidbots in those specs' standings as their representation is improved.

[xskarma]

The minor nerf to Sacrifice should bring the spec in line to where it stands with the other Grimoire talents, which is in line with the other specs according to Simulationcraft. That realignment will allow more players to shift to 'prefered' specs over 'optimal' specs and we'll likely see improvements on Raidbots in those specs' standings as their representation is improved.

I have good memories about DS's balance between the specs. As always there was an ideal spec for most fights, but you could for the most part play any of the 3 specs and do well. I wouldn't mind having that situation again in 5.2. It would give me a good excuse to build on my adventures with Demo & Destro and try some raiding with them.

I find the topic of if Affli should be nerfed or not rather boring. Those kinds of yes/no discussions usually never lead to anything but stalemates. More interesting would be to see what people would change to take care of this percieved Affli overpoweredness.

[Jessicka]

I find the topic of if Affli should be nerfed or not rather boring. Those kinds of yes/no discussions usually never lead to anything but stalemates. More interesting would be to see what people would change to take care of this percieved Affli overpoweredness.

The only thing we have to go on is the sims that show Sac way ahead of the other Grimoires and those other Grimoires and specs being much more in line, because there wont be enough data from top players using the other talents to make a proper comparison. We'd therefore just reach the same conclusion as Blizzard reached to nerf Sac and there wouldn't be much discussion

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter who was op 2 years ago or 3 years ago. Currently it's clearly affliction.

They nerfed fire dramatical though it was only a few percent ahead of affli. Yet they didn't touch Affli.

The question is: if fire was 3% ahead of affli and fire got nerfed by 10% overall dps, why should they let Affli untouched? Fire had the sae problem like Affli: high mobility, multidotting cleave, nearly weaknesses, even high single target dps. Affli as a high mobility multi dot class shouldn't be top on single target fights. There should be rogues, some melees and so on, with arcane being ahead on low movement fights and affli pulling ahead on high movement fights, multi dotting fights and so on. Then it would be balanced.

I'm sorry, what?

Fire was not "just 3%" ahead of Affli - it was ahead by a lot more on quite a few fights. On proper cleave fights no class could touch Fire mages apart from maybe Combat rogues. The only time Affli could out-do fire on multi target fights was when the targets were spread far enough to not be able to spread combustion, at which point lock/spriest/moonkin multidotting overtook fire. Fire heavily needed a nerf to bring it back in line - EVEN mages agreed on that.

And that was with slightly lower ilvl gear, it's well known that fire scales incredibly well with gear, so can you imagine the gap between Fire and every other DPS had they not been nerfed, with BiS gear?

I dont get why you're complaining about locks so much now anyway. Even with the Fire nerfs, Arcane is more then viable - even beating Affli on single target low movement as you said, but losing on high movement or multidot fights - fair deal imo.

[Deleted]

mages were also top in Firelands, those big parses at gatekeeper blowing everyone out of the other, but ppl forget that.

Nah, mages were nothing special in firelands, except for Baleroc and Alysrazor and the latter is just gimmick. Mages had no mobility and AoE, and arcane was balanced around that, so they got to shine on the one fight where no movement or AoE was needed. Even then warriors were better before the mass influx of DTRs.

Mages also appeared to be on a nice place on logs and stats during 4.0, even though the class sucked beyond comprehension then, because of RNG spikes and occasional RNG Combustion whorage. Fire logs in cata were really inconclusive.

[PickleballAce]

No, they implemented MG because too many people moaned for DL as filler during Cataclysm when that aberation of a spec appeared.

I liked DL spec.