No new dungeons, really Blizzard?

[XingoJenkins]

My thoughts:
Dungeons > Tier 1 Raids > Tier 2 Raids > ... > Tier N Raids > Next Expansion

Blizz should have made more dungeons at the beginning. Isn't logical doing dungeons that drops better items than previous Tier. So ppl would make LFR / Normals to gear instead jumping an entire raid tier just farming 3 new dungeons.

[Crashdummy]

I'm sorry but they've been tweeking Dailies since launch and openly admitted having too many dailies is an issue, like Golden Lotus and Klaxxi.

Have you done DOmination Hold dailies?

They take at most 15-20 minutes to do. That was what they are aiming for dailies now.

If you can't take a little bit of time out of your day to do some quests then don't do them

Yes i have done those quests, they dont take 20 minutes in high population PVP servers. Closer to 2 hours than to 20 minutes. Its sucks too, sucks as much as the previous ones.

I dont mind them giving dailies for those that like them, but a lof of us dont, and we have no progression path.

Also, they admitted having too many dailies but they did NOT fix the problem with the old ones. Funny how it works, "Yeah, we screw up, but we will not change a thing about it and will leave it broken"

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 02:39 PM ----------

Still waiting for posts like this to start explaining how and why Cataclysm was the best expansion ever released....
It's the only damn expansion to release additional 5 mans and make raids immediately obsolete as quickly as possible.

TBC had ONE added heroic with the final raid.

Wrath waited until T9 and you got ONE new 5 man.
Then we got 3 new heroics with the final patch.

Now Blizzard is supposed to release a new 5 man with every raid like Cataclysm? Which gave us 2 patches (ZG/ZA and Firelands were intended to be in the same patch, but got split due to Firelands taking longer than expected).

We don't need heroics to make 5.0 raids obsolete already. LFR is intended to be its own progression path.

Wrath launched 5 mans in every patch except 3.1. We will already have two patches in MoP with 5.2 without any 5 man.

TBC launched with 15 heroic dungeons.

I dont think its too hard to understand the problem. LFR sucks as a progression path, because it can only be done once a week.

[hakujinbakasama]

My thoughts:
Dungeons > Tier 1 Raids > Tier 2 Raids > ... > Tier N Raids > Next Expansion

Blizz should have made more dungeons at the beginning. Isn't logical doing dungeons that drops better items than previous Tier. So ppl would make LFR / Normals to gear instead jumping an entire raid tier just farming 3 new dungeons.

The other problem would seem to be that you are then completely limited on how to gear for the Teir 2 raids. There has already been an outcry of "this is bullshit" when it comes to LFR loot and the only alternative of the daily grind. The movement into Tier 2 can seemingly only exacerbate this issue further.

I don't know where but I thought I read something about new craftables though I think that was only for PVP. If so, they should have at least added a few across the board for PvE to eliminate some of the already miserable grind hours and weeks in T1 LFR so people could try to progress forward.

[Mawnix]

Yes i have done those quests, they dont take 20 minutes in high population PVP servers. Closer to 2 hours than to 20 minutes. Its sucks too, sucks as much as the previous ones.

I dont mind them giving dailies for those that like them, but a lof of us dont, and we have no progression path.

Also, they admitted having too many dailies but they did NOT fix the problem with the old ones. Funny how it works, "Yeah, we screw up, but we will not change a thing about it and will leave it broken"

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 02:39 PM ----------



Wrath launched 5 mans in every patch except 3.1. We will already have two patches in MoP with 5.2 without any 5 man.

I dont think its too hard to understand the problem. LFR sucks as a progression path, because it can only be done once a week.

<--Lives on High Population PVP server.

<--Runs into no issues.

<--Completes them everyday in 15-20 minutes.

<--doesn't PVP.

[Crashdummy]

My thoughts:
Dungeons > Tier 1 Raids > Tier 2 Raids > ... > Tier N Raids > Next Expansion

Blizz should have made more dungeons at the beginning. Isn't logical doing dungeons that drops better items than previous Tier. So ppl would make LFR / Normals to gear instead jumping an entire raid tier just farming 3 new dungeons.

Why it isnt logical to make dungeons that drop EQUAL items (not better) than previous tier? Its is absolutely logical, catch up mechanism are neccesary so that we dont have the same situation that we had in TBC with people stealing raiders from less progressed raids because they were too lazy to re gear their new raiders.

[hakujinbakasama]

LFR sucks as a progression path, because it can only be done once a week.

People tend to combat this with "Well you could only raid once a week anyway." Which was true. However, in my personal experience which I don't think I'm alone in, the real issue is that people seemingly not used to running with guilds anymore.

I believe that the huge difference is that when you used to run these with the same group you often would trade off pieces. IE, if in a raid 3 tanking pieces dropped, each player would at least get 1 and someone would get 2. The next time through the same thing would happen and thus each week it would often feel as if you were getting something, even if it was slowly. This doesn't even include off specs. However, from what I can tell the whole LFR business feels like an EVERY week nothing repeat. I suppose this is the price for being able to do it on "your" time?

I would propose that they bring back the badge system or an update to it from TBC and Wrath. I actually felt as if that was the best option and is actually much better now with Transmog.

[Crashdummy]

<--Lives on High Population PVP server.

<--Runs into no issues.

<--Completes them everyday in 15-20 minutes.

<--doesn't PVP.

<--Lives on High Population PVP server.

<--Runs into a lot of issues issues, always grouped.

<--Completes them everyday in near 2 hours

<--tries not to PVP.

Funny how anecdotal evidence works, isnt it?

[Deleted]

Why it isnt logical to make dungeons that drop EQUAL items (not better) than previous tier? Its is absolutely logical, catch up mechanism are neccesary so that we dont have the same situation that we had in TBC with people stealing raiders from less progressed raids because they were too lazy to re gear their new raiders.

imo best catch up mechanism would be increased chance to win loot in LFR in some outdated raids.

[Crashdummy]

People tend to combat this with "Well you could only raid once a week anyway." Which was true. However, in my personal experience which I don't think I'm alone in, the real issue is that people seemingly not used to running with guilds anymore.

I believe that the huge difference is that when you used to run these with the same group you often would trade off pieces. IE, if in a raid 3 tanking pieces dropped, each player would at least get 1 and someone would get 2. The next time through the same thing would happen and thus each week it would often feel as if you were getting something, even if it was slowly. This doesn't even include off specs. However, from what I can tell the whole LFR business feels like an EVERY week nothing repeat. I suppose this is the price for being able to do it on "your" time?

I would propose that they bring back the badge system or an update to it from TBC and Wrath. I actually felt as if that was the best option and is actually much better now with Transmog.

Yeah, you could only raid once a week, and that brought a big problem that forced Blizzard to introduce the badge system.

Its not like everything was fine when you could only raid once a week and we didnt have cath up mechanisms...

It caused a HUGE PROBLEM that Blizzard solved in that very expansion with the introduction of ZA and badges system.

[Deleted]

<--Lives on High Population PVP server.

<--Runs into a lot of issues issues, always grouped.

<--Completes them everyday in near 2 hours

<--tries not to PVP.

Funny how anecdotal evidence works, isnt it?

<-- lives on PvE server
.
.
.
< - profit

[Crashdummy]

imo best catch up mechanism would be increased chance to win loot in LFR in some outdated raids.

The best catch up mechanism is the one we had for 3 expansions (ok, 2 and a tier), badge system with new heroics giving improved gear, only not tied to reputation which are tied to dailies.

LFR (something you do once a week) sucks as a catch up mechanism.

[Dravelar]

It's funny that so many people are complaining about the catch-up doing old raids system,yet they claim that they love TBC,which used the same damn system

[Deleted]

heres the thing: we NEED the 5 mans to bridge the gap. especially for people who arent raiding normal/heroic.

the DS 5-mans gave firelands level gear. that got people ready for the new raid, and alts, fairly quickly.

LFR is *completely unreliable* as a gearing source. you might run LFR for 12 weeks and end up with no loot. with 5 mans, gearing between tiers was much faster.

- If you are not raiding you don't *need* the gear. What are you going to do with that? do the dailies 30sec quicker? Find reasons to bitch at people who just hit 90 and can't keep up with you?

- the DS 5-mans also meant people could run DS LFR on 5-6 characters per week which led to quicker burnout

- Gearing up should not be reliable, again quicker burnout and that's just part of what an rpg is all about. Roll the dice.

Basically they are going back to what people have been whining about for *ages* that once a tier releases the previous one becomes irrelevant. Now the goal is that you will need to do at least Tier 14 LFR before you can go to tier 15 and so on. Same with the legendary quest.

Imo if they do add 5-man instances after 5.2, they should drop gear equivalent to tier 14 LFR.

[Deleted]

It's "not only" patch 5.2, it is already patch 5.2. We had 5.1 in this expansion that hardly added anything whatsoever aside from few crappy scenarios. In all honesty I don't care a bit about how long it took back in TBC to get new dungeons, it had changed since then with every proper new tier also introducing new dungeons.

5.2 is a new tier and a new arena season. These used to have new dungeons every single time in the last 4-5 years, this has changed because of scenarios, something Blizzard themselves stated to not be very popular.

Patches released since 27.12.2007 that also introduced a new tier (not counting expansions):
(2.4 was not a new tier, but for completions sake): 1 dungeon
3.1: no dungeon
3.2: 1 dungeon
3.3: 3 dungeons
4.2: no dungeons
4.3: 3 dungeons

Every single time? Nope.

[TheWindWalker]

<--Lives on High Population PVP server.

<--Runs into no issues.

<--Completes them everyday in 15-20 minutes.

<--doesn't PVP.

Hey, look! A unicorn! I'm a highpop PVP server on the minority faction. The PVP dailies took me between 30 minutes on a good day to more than an hour on a bad day because there will always be sudden, out-of-nowhere, burst PVP action in my face. One of the reasons being a Monk (or Druid) is phenominal this patch is because of those dailies can be done without having to land.

imo best catch up mechanism would be increased chance to win loot in LFR in some outdated raids.

I actually think that's a great idea. If they went up from the alleged "15% chance" to more like "33% chance" to win loot form MSV and maybe a "25% chance" in HoF/ToES in 5.2, that'd make it comparable.

In BC, when you had to take people on old raids to get attuned, the other 24 people didn't roll on the old loot.

[Mirishka]

New Dungeons are one of the few PvE aspects I've always been looking forward to. Yes it's mostly 1-2 per patch but running them and getting the achievments was usually something I enjoyed. Now they don't even bother to do that anymore, they're getting neglected in favour of their crappy scenarios whom I in all honesty despise since I have to dps instead of heal.

We get a massive new raid, tons of new lore, new scenarios (which, yes, you can speed up by healing), new pets, popular-demand transmog changes, and a ton more stuff.

In short.... awesome patch is awesome. Stop whining.

[Gnomenommer]

at this rate, the next expansion will have no dungeons.

dont get me wrong, I like MoP, but ffs, look at how many UNIQUE dungeons BC had. now look at the number of new instances in MoP (ignore the remakes)...it isnt many.

see the pattern though? 3.1 didn't add new dungeons and Ulduar became the best raid next to karazan of all time! I think Throne of Thunder will be incredible.

[Crashdummy]

It's funny that so many people are complaining about the catch-up doing old raids system,yet they claim that they love TBC,which used the same damn system

The same damm system that caused so many problems that Blizzard, in the same TBC, launched a system to fix it?

[mvaliz]

TBC had ONE added heroic with the final raid.

Wrath waited until T9 and you got ONE new 5 man.
Then we got 3 new heroics with the final patch.

Now Blizzard is supposed to release a new 5 man with every raid like Cataclysm? Which gave us 2 patches (ZG/ZA and Firelands were intended to be in the same patch, but got split due to Firelands taking longer than expected).

BC launched with 14 dungeons, ended with 15, none were re-hashed (Though Old Hillsbrad may count)
Wrath launched with 11 dungeons, ended with 15, none were re-hashed (arguable about the ToC's though...)
Cataclysm launched with 9 dungeons, 2 of those re-hashed, ended with 14, 2 of the 4 new ones were rehashed (though HoT/End Time may arguably count as re-hashed)
MoP launched with 9 dungeons, 3 of those 9 dungeons (1/3rd of the heroic dungeons) were re-hashed...So far, no new ones added.

[Gnomenommer]

It's funny that so many people are complaining about the catch-up doing old raids system,yet they claim that they love TBC,which used the same damn system

Exactly, they really need to realize this....