Why couldn't the Lich King kill Kil'jaeden or maybe even Sargeras?

[Yattz]

Alright, LK would actually most likely have been able to beat Kil Jaden given enough time to grow! Remember Jaden sent Illidan to destroy the LK because his power was growing too much and too fast! The fact that he wanted him destroyed shows me fear! Dont you agree? ;p

He would have NO chance against Sargaras.

[BHD]

What I meant about sending Illidan was that it would be pointless to send him towards LK if KJ knew he'd fail. But if not for Malfurion he would've succeeded. Illidan would've succeeded and Illidan couldn't stand a chance against Kil'jaeden. Which makes me believe that KJ too is stronger than LK.

[Deleted]

I think this is pretty clear. Brann also stated that Sargeras himself has never set foot on Azeroth.

Definitely not what happens in the book (not worded that way, anyway). I have it in french unfortunately, so I wouldn't really be able to translate it accordingly, but from what I remember, Sargeras freaks out and the last thing he does, is transfer his spirit or whatever into Aegwynn as a last resort.

However, the Destroyer had manipulated her in a way that she could not perceive...

That part in your quote from wowpedia doesn't even have any source. Sure, he did manipulate her, but there's absolutely no proof he deliberately lost in order to do that.

[Wildmoon]

Definitely not what happens in the book (not worded that way, anyway). I have it in french unfortunately, so I wouldn't really be able to translate it accordingly, but from what I remember, Sargeras freaks out and the last thing he does, is transfer his spirit or whatever into Aegwynn as a last resort.

That part in your quote from wowpedia doesn't even have any source. Sure, he did manipulate her, but there's absolutely no proof he deliberately lost in order to do that.

Even if Aegwynn defeated him which I am not sure but it was just his avartar aka his illusion anyway. His physical being was destroyed by the well explosion.

[Zoma]

Alright, LK would actually most likely have been able to beat Kil Jaden given enough time to grow! Remember Jaden sent Illidan to destroy the LK because his power was growing too much and too fast! The fact that he wanted him destroyed shows me fear! Dont you agree? ;p

He would have NO chance against Sargaras.

I think KJ was more concerned that LK would become strong enough to interfere with the BL's invasion plans, rather than as a direct threat to himself. Once LK became independent of the BL, he had the potential to raise an army that could fight on equal terms with the BL's standard troops, and Arthas himself could probably match some of the lesser demon lords.

[Deleted]

Even if Aegwynn defeated him which I am not sure but it was just his avartar aka his illusion anyway. His physical being was destroyed by the well explosion.

Well, again, there's no real proof about all this. In the book, the thing is clearly stated as "The avatar of Sargeras", not just one.

I personally believe it is indeed his physical form, but I don't have any facts to back that up either. The lore related to the legion (or at least Sargy) is too vague. Guess we'll have to see about all this in the future.

[Wildmoon]

Well, again, there's no real proof about all this. In the book, the thing is clearly stated as "The avatar of Sargeras", not just one.

I personally believe it is indeed his physical form, but I don't have any facts to back that up either. The lore related to the legion (or at least Sargy) is too vague. Guess we'll have to see about all this in the future.

"Sargeras ceased to be in the sense of his physical being in the mortal world of Azeroth. He was cast into limbo, so to speak, as Blizzard wanted. Otherwise, he pretty much would have immediately returned to try to destroy Azeroth again. 'Ceased to be' was used specifically for that reason" from Knaak. It makes sense too because it took the well of eternity to summon him to Azeroth and the whole process took very long time. Didn't the demons take like few minutes to summon him?

[Deleted]

"Sargeras ceased to be in the sense of his physical being in the mortal world of Azeroth. He was cast into limbo, so to speak, as Blizzard wanted. Otherwise, he pretty much would have immediately returned to try to destroy Azeroth again. 'Ceased to be' was used specifically for that reason" from Knaak. It makes sense too because it took the well of eternity to summon him to Azeroth and the whole process took very long time. Didn't the demons take like few minutes to summon him?

Well, that's a pretty common things for demons. Weird stuff always happen when you kill these guys, they return to the nether or find some way to be summoned back or whatever, so it's not really surprising. The well episode probably just forced him to return to where he came, that's all.

I really believe his body was broken when facing Aegwynn. To me, he was so surprised that such a thing could happen that the only thing he thought about was to find shelter wherever he could, i.e. in the guardian. At least, that's what I understood from reading the book, especially considering that he panicked like a little girl in front of a mouse.

Then again, speculations.

[Wildmoon]

Well, that's a pretty common things for demons. Weird stuff always happen when you kill these guys, they return to the nether or find some way to be summoned back or whatever, so it's not really surprising. The well episode probably just forced him to return to where he came, that's all.

I really believe his body was broken when facing Aegwynn. To me, he was so surprised that such a thing could happen that the only thing he thought about was to find shelter wherever he could, i.e. in the guardian. At least, that's what I understood from reading the book, especially considering that he panicked like a little girl in front of a mouse.

Then again, speculations.

What you said doesn't quite make sense. It's actually a fact that he had to have the well to be summoned into Azeroth. If he could just enter in Azeroth in the way he faced Aegwynn then why didn't he just enter Azeroth in WotA? High ranked demon need some sort of huge magic resource to summon them whether it's Sargeras,KJ,Arch. It has always been like that. We are not talking about speculation here. What I said in this post is actually proven fact in Warcraft lore. Wasn't the name of demon Aegwynn faced "Avartar of Sargeras" in the first place? not 'Sargeras".

[Deleted]

What you said doesn't quite make sense. It's actually a fact that he had to have the well to be summoned into Azeroth. If he could just enter in Azeroth in the way he faced Aegwynn then why didn't he just enter Azeroth in WotA? High ranked demon need some sort of huge magic resource to summon them whether it's Sargeras,KJ,Arch. It has always been like that. We are not talking about speculation here. What I said in this post is actually proven fact in Warcraft lore. Wasn't the name of demon Aegwynn faced "Avartar of Sargeras" in the first place? not 'Sargeras".

That's not what I said. My english isn't very good, I'm sorry.

Of course he needs to have some kind of way to be summoned on Azeroth. I just meant that, the well episode didn't destroy his body in my eyes. It just forced him to go back to the nether (like any other demon), while when he faced Aegwynn, his physical body was broken beyond repair and was buried so he could never use it again.

Now, Avatar can mean a lot of things. It is in many ways a physical manifestation of something that normally doesn't or shouldn't have one. So it could indeed be the real body of Sargeras. I still see it that way, and these are indeed speculations.

[Fmr]

WOw you really think Gul'dan was stronger than Kil'jaeden? He may have been the strongest mortal warlock. Learning magic takes time and we know how shortlived Gul'dan was. Even comparing him to Kil'jaeden is funny.

[TJ]

Because he would get completely obliterated by the 2 in question with no effort at all. There is not a slight chance against even Kil'Jaeden, nevermind Sargeras.

Aegwynn did not defeat Sargeras.. she defeated his avatar which was the plan the whole time which has also been confirmed by Blizzard. There is no speculation since that IS the story.

A human could not defeat Sarg.. he would obliterate every single human on the planet with ease before they could scratch him. Some people severely underestimate him and KJ.

[Wildmoon]

That's not what I said. My english isn't very good, I'm sorry.

Of course he needs to have some kind of way to be summoned on Azeroth. I just meant that, the well episode didn't destroy his body in my eyes. It just forced him to go back to the nether (like any other demon), while when he faced Aegwynn, his physical body was broken beyond repair and was buried so he could never use it again.

Now, Avatar can mean a lot of things. It is in many ways a physical manifestation of something that normally doesn't or shouldn't have one. So it could indeed be the real body of Sargeras. I still see it that way, and these are indeed speculations.

My english is pretty bad too lol. What I said was that there's no way the avartar could be real Sargeras because he was banished back into great dark beyond and there was no WoE anymore so it was just impossible to summon him. The process of summoning Sargeras is really long but in the book he was just summoned by few demons in a few minutes. That's why I said there's no way that was real Sargeras.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Why are we even having this discussion? And why people keep mentioning that demon's don't have souls? Do you really think it matters? The Lich King's power PALES in comparison to what Kil'Jaeden can do, let alone Sargeras. This is fantasy, not some science thing where your creation can kill you. It doesn't work that way with magic. Not when you create something with your own power. Assuming of course that Kil'Jaeden doesn't lose his own power.

Sargeras can just fart and the Frozen Throne will ignite in a neverending fire.

Sargeras is a pussy. N'Zoth could take him.

[Deleted]

The Lich King would be a good ally to have when confronting the legion tho. It doesnt make sense, but I kind of hope that either bolvar or somehow a redeemed and ressurected arthas and a redeemed Illidan would be generals in the war against the legion, as would the old gods. I like the idea of enemy's uniting under a truce to take out their shared greatest enemy.

Redeemed Arthas and Illidan? Would be possible although I could name quite a few people who would throw a fit by just having a thought of working with them towards a common goal

Old Gods? Sorry impossible. Those are like the worst jocks in (warcraft) universe, they are hell bent on corrupting and messing up everything in their sight, they hate everyone including themselves and they wreak havoc just for the sake of it. They are actually more twisted than Demons since Demons ultimately wish to destroy the entire universe while Old Gods wish for nothing more than to keep it suffering as long as possible.

Also OT:

I dont think Kil'Jaeden created Lich King without some safety measure in case of complications, some sort of sealed curse of twisted pact (Grom and Manaroth) that he can activate whenever his own creation rises agianst him. However some Demons (those that are conscious individuals) do indeed have souls since most of them are lifeforms twisted by fel energies. Examples would be Imps who are fel infused Grells or Satyrs who are fel infused kaldorei. Most of them are probably physical manifestations of twisted nether energies without any consciousness or individuality other than some basic instincts and mind set to serve whoever is the strongest fel energy user in the vicinity.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

So then the ALMIGHTY Legion is like a little turd that can be wiped out by some frost nova. If Gul'dan is actually stronger than Kil'Jaeden in terms of magic then Kil'Jaeden looses all his epicness. He is nothing but a bodyguard for Sargeras. Just another Elite mob that we need to kill in order to get to the final boss.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 12:34 PM ----------



And what the fuck did the Lich King do? Umm yeah he got killed in the last expansion. And then we got Deathwing.

This isn't some political discussion. It's a lore discussion. Just because you can't bother to argue with decency doesn't mean you can call other people sick...

What has Lich King done? He was the biggest threat on Azeroth before and at the time of WotLK, and controlled a vast army of undead that even Kil'Jaeden was afraid of. And I don't care how much you hated Cataclysm or not, Deathwing could probably easily take your Kil'Jaeden.

[Xilurm]

What has Lich King done? He was the biggest threat on Azeroth before and at the time of WotLK, and controlled a vast army of undead that even Kil'Jaeden was afraid of. And I don't care how much you hated Cataclysm or not, Deathwing could probably easily take your Kil'Jaeden.

Whaaaat? I loved Cataclysm, but no way in freaking hell that Deathwing could have taken on Kil'Jaeden. Kil'Jaeden wasn't afraid of the Lich King... But he knew that the Lich King would interfere if the Burning Legion tried to get in Azeroth. There is no freaking way that Blizzard would let us kill the Lich King in the second expansion if he was as strong as Kil'Jaeden. If you say that the Lich King is as strong as Kil'Jaeden then what will they throw us next?

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Whaaaat? I loved Cataclysm, but no way in freaking hell that Deathwing could have taken on Kil'Jaeden. Kil'Jaeden wasn't afraid of the Lich King... But he knew that the Lich King would interfere if the Burning Legion tried to get in Azeroth. There is no freaking way that Blizzard would let us kill the Lich King in the second expansion if he was as strong as Kil'Jaeden. If you say that the Lich King is as strong as Kil'Jaeden then what will they throw us next?

Archimonde himself was afraid of Deathwing(As said in the War of the Ancients novel I believe). And Kil'Jaeden not being all too much powerful then Archimonde, who's to say that Deathwing wouldn't be able to take on Kil'Jaeden?

And the way I see it, N'Zoth> Sargeras. So, yeah, there you have it =)

[TJ]

Sargeras is a pussy. N'Zoth could take him.

N'Zoth couldn't take shit, not even in the same league as Sargeras.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 05:37 PM ----------

Archimonde himself was afraid of Deathwing(As said in the War of the Ancients novel I believe). And Kil'Jaeden not being all too much powerful then Archimonde, who's to say that Deathwing wouldn't be able to take on Kil'Jaeden?

And the way I see it, N'Zoth> Sargeras. So, yeah, there you have it =)

Archimonde was afraid of the Dragon Soul that Deathwing had, nothing else. Archi would rip Deathwing apart as would KJ.

[Chickat]

Whaaaat? I loved Cataclysm, but no way in freaking hell that Deathwing could have taken on Kil'Jaeden. Kil'Jaeden wasn't afraid of the Lich King... But he knew that the Lich King would interfere if the Burning Legion tried to get in Azeroth. There is no freaking way that Blizzard would let us kill the Lich King in the second expansion if he was as strong as Kil'Jaeden. If you say that the Lich King is as strong as Kil'Jaeden then what will they throw us next?

Yes, but an old god empowered Deathwing whos in control of the demon soul would annihilate Kil'Jaeden imo.