Looking back at swtor over the last year

[Deleted]

Kitty sums up what would have been my response pretty well. I'm not sure how you couldn't have gotten what I was saying because it was pretty clear. Also, I'm not exactly sure which of those words was fancy, but it says a lot about your vocabulary, or lack thereof.

No it says a lot about you thinking a bunch of canned responses being rolled up is engaging and somehow more story oriented than being delivered straight up without a cutscene, which is laughable.

Um, the only argument that makes any sense for the "MMO feel" is the engine. Yes, the engine is a problem when multiple people are on the screen. Things have been made somewhat better since launch. As for HD textures, load screens, and inaccessible areas based on class......what the hell does that have to do with an MMO? MMOs aren't allowed to have load screens? They all must be able to handle HD textures? All areas in the game must be accessible? So what you're telling me is that it would feel more like an MMO if it was more visually appealing? Or that if you could access a couple more caves, it would be more like an MMO?

Yes I am saying that the game world being chopped up by multiple loading screens and being a line of corridors, and then further blocked of by zones only available to certain classes for no good reason has very much to do with the feeling of being an MMO. You're no longer in a world but a chickenpen. Sorry not everyone can have biodrone goggles.

[Gerion]

I too agree that SWTOR lacked an MMO feel, at least early on. Leveling area's were dead, at max level you had a hell of a time finding a group for anything, and most of the servers just didn't have anyone on them. By the time I stopped playing it felt very much like a single player game with some multiplayer capability. Now that may have changed with all of the server merges and stuff, but at least through May I found myself solo most of the time.

I'd say at the beginning of TOR's life it had a pretty strong MMO feel. Starting planets were filled since a lot of people were starting out or trying new classes. It was quite easy to find groups for heroic 2/4 quests. Obviously that died quickly with the realization that endgame was terrible.

I quite enjoyed the leveling experience. The storylines (including the planet stories) were quite fun the first time through. Of course after the first time, planet quests began to feel annoying. I didn't mind the blocked off areas so much but I did hate the stations before the planets.

I also hated the companions. As a trooper I was pretty much forced to use Dorne or suffer an immense amount of downtime or just straight up death. The companion stories felt completely half-baked. Dorne tells me she has something to do, she runs off, screen fades to black, Dorne comes back and says "I succeeded!". It feels like it should've been a quest but Bioware didn't feel like doing any work that day. Also, I love how Dorne doesn't even speak to me anymore after we enter a romance. It's like I don't even exist.

PVP, specifically Warzones, were fun. Ilum was and still is one of the biggest jokes at an attempt at world pvp.

The introduction of the Cartel Market and its various nuances just shows how inept Bioware is at handling an MMO.

[FusedMass]

Looking back:

At the start. I played a Sith Warrior. I remember that the servers going into them nearly all were over loaded. People had to wait 20 minutes to an hour just because everyone was trying to get in at the same time. It was a blast the story lines and personally the war-zones gave a generous amount of experience points even if you lost the match you still got a generous amount of credits.

Then the nerf for both credits and warzones. People complained highly at the usual changes only the winning team gets most experience and credits. (as if we could control every person on our team) it was just a giant rollar coaster with its ups and downs. I wanted at the very least to make sure I saw all the alt storyline. Being 50 and doing raids never suited me sincerely.

It was great for the most part. Complex moral choices and interactive story's with side companion missions. (How easily we forget our companion healing or tanking with us) I really did enjoy it. They really should update their system so while loading takes a large decline on the amount of time to log in and out. I hope better things for the future lays ahead.

I really am a tiny bit discouraged that people have to pay for the DLC. There are tons of complaints on their website. If your a sub at least imo. You should get the expansion free. Since its a new planet with a raised level cap. Its just a future daily planet like the others. Its the greed. The Cartel Market offering items only on their shop one after another even to subs.

Most part a good game.

[notorious98]

No it says a lot about you thinking a bunch of canned responses being rolled up is engaging and somehow more story oriented than being delivered straight up without a cutscene, which is laughable.

Who said anything about story oriented? If you're going to change the discussion from an "MMO feel" to "engaging and story oriented", at least have the decency to tell the rest of us. In that case, your first response is actually completely pointless and doesn't have anything to do with anything that was being said in that particular conversation.

Yes I am saying that the game world being chopped up by multiple loading screens and being a line of corridors, and then further blocked of by zones only available to certain classes for no good reason has very much to do with the feeling of being an MMO. You're no longer in a world but a chickenpen. Sorry not everyone can have biodrone goggles.

Last I checked "MMO" only stood for "Massively Multiplayer Online" not "Massively Open World". And, last I checked, I can't just walk into somebody's house unless I'm invited. Does that mean I'm no longer in a world but a chickenpen? Unless you can explain WHY any of these invalid arguments you're using are relevant to the discussion, it just comes off as you just grasping at something and hoping it sticks.

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 09:31 AM ----------

I will also say that I hated all of the blocked off area's, I think one of the biggest mistakes they made was using so much instancing, It especially got on my nerves if I did happen to be leveling with someone and they were the same class, you never could help each other out, even if it was rarely needed. It just broke things up far more than it needed to be. As much as they encouraged group play with the 2 and 4 man heroic quests, they also discouraged it with how some things were split up.

This is actually untrue. There is an option that allows for the same class to enter class areas together.

As for your first comments, yes, depending on the server you played on before the mergers, I could definitely see how it would feel like you were playing by yourself. The days of 20 or so people on the Fleet at peak time were terrible. The incredibly poor insight to not plan for people leaving the game likely beat up the sub numbers.

[Deleted]

Who said anything about story oriented?

You did. "The story driven content allows for multiple people to be involved and interact."

Last I checked "MMO" only stood for "Massively Multiplayer Online"

And there's nothing massive about SWTORs chickenpen of corridors and blocked of areas, as for "I can't just walk into someones house", that's not a valid excuse to close of the game as insanely as they have. You're the one desperately grasping for straws

This is actually untrue.

No it isn't, unless you and a friend rolled the exact same class you can not play with one another in these areas, doesn't matter if you don't like the class or not, in order to participate in these together you have to be same class. Otherwise, you're off to play on your own once class quests comes up.

So out of four classes, you both have to pick the exact same one for it that to be possible.

[Deleted]

You can allow other to come with you in the instance, though they are visitors, no choosing dialogue options. After unsubbing in jan or feb, after getting my Agent to 50 (pain in the a**) and starting my Sith Assassine, i had enough on tatooine, with all this drving and running up/down in Mos Espa i think. BAD DESIGN. That is a problem which comess again and again, later more, witht the f2p at the door i subbed again (month 2 now) because i wanted to see storylines, the coins, and considered f2p. The early speed boost, cheap speeders improved gameplay alot, and the lfg mad some grinding possible so you have a good flow on the actual quest with 6-3 level advantage on average.

So many loadscreen --> Bad Design, --> First land on a space station, then down to the planet ---> Bad design waiting for the Elevator (hello quesh,Hoth) ---> worde design, having two lifts, no speeder driving, moving parallel to each other....---> *tantrum* Dorne Base i HATE you, if i could channel that hate for lifts(and loadscreens) in my sith character, guess who is the new emperor.

Having the same 3-4 for variation of mob groups ---> Boring bad design, Giving a class weak AoE and the stronger AoE at Lvl48 (IA/Sniper) ---> bad design and harsh leveling.

Companions... nice idea, bad bad bad design. Heal is easiest and effordless, tank sometimes work to, the rest? Hello downtime. What is the fastest way to heal up your companion? Mount/dismount or release/recall. Only having one companion with you? Ok for combat but in story scene please all of them, so you get varity without companion dismissing/calling. I dislike the affection system, because if you don`t like they want it (or cheese it around with gifts) you cut yourself of content, or choose what they like...i thought this is MY EPIC story.....really really really stupid design.

Dark and Light, worse thing ever! The dev/designer decided this is good, this is bad. You let him live, because killing someone would be utterly stupid? Hello Light Side! Maybe i just want to use him, or the person suffers more when alive? No LS points. I`m a Sith i like challenges, i accept the challenge, i get LS points. And LS/DS does matter in the story, although small and personal (at least in IA und SI, SW i haven found any really). And most decision have no explantion behind them (you say blabla, gain dark side, intent is xyz). Dear player, get the info you need and defeat Sith X, but please don`t kill him yet, we need a commander for that base. Sounds reasonable, but hey 2x50 LS points, instead you know, torture him and let him live for DS.

Instead of your choice, you do that, what is companion/DS/LS choice, and if you play like you want, well my SW ended up neutral and you reduce your own choices at the end. Nice ideas, bad designs.

Speccs of the classes? Nice idea, stolen from WoW but even more straigth and clear then WoWs and only once really updated.

No auto attack? Nice but ability bloat, no macro and always the same enemy groups, get repetive, not epic...also very slow target changing, and sometimes some skills feel clumsy, i also like to watch little icons appear under my healthbar, so i can press a certain button instead of say, high light in the slotbar or around the char, or *cough* even allow add ons.

Space Combat, nice mini game, but so much wasted potential. The fly on rail is ok, it works, but occasional choice for "do another round" or "fly the other way" would be nice, also mutliplayer, we all have falcons, we fly on rail already, man the upper and lower turrets and have some fun, let`s other play fighter, make bigger ships, flightpath choices, even on this limited implantation, this could be awesome. Oh and a level and reward preview would be sooo nice, and to end them sooner when we completed the main objective instead of waiting another 2 minutes. You see, bad design...i sense a pattern.

About bad design, let`s tag F2P Modell, you what it is? Nice idea, bad design! Gear? Check? Buffs? Check? Some content for f2p? Check! Gambling? uf oh meesa nossa like gambling but hey i don`t have to do it. All those unlocks like titel, gear allowance etc. ughhh but at least we can buy more char slots.....oh wait......you can`t *facepalm* you can buy quicker leveling with consumeable, oh no, you just level as fast as a subbed player now. At least i can buy this cool armor set...which has no stats and i need all the mods...bummer. Well at least i can buy a new ship, `cause im BH my bird is the fugly oh wait...you can`t. We give you all the story for free, wow that is...gratiouse but it`s like a bike, without a saddle, lights, air in the tires and the pedals are super thin, so you don`t really want to stick to that game. So F2P end up being there to sell subscription instead of you know making money itself. And milking subbers with gamble.

You know what? You wouldn`t need a fricking month, to make the gameflow/interaction better and have a better f2p which would make you money without being unfair.
This money would make it worth to expand companion system, space combat, adding new things and have another stable game to choose beside WoW, which is the still the gold standart, because somehow companies want money, but seems to fear making big money, i think actually they fear getting alot of money....


End of it all, many bad design discision, many which could be avoided if you "stole" proper from WoW and other games, still i enjoy the Stories, even with it flaws, but they end..and then?

[notorious98]

You did. "The story driven content allows for multiple people to be involved and interact."

In response to "The story driven single player content is not MMO material". If you haven't figured it out yet, we're talking about whether or not it has an "MMO feel", not how good or bad it happens to be. You're the only one talking about that and, once again, it has absolutely zero to do with the discussion.

And there's nothing massive about SWTORs chickenpen of corridors and blocked of areas, as for "I can't just walk into someones house", that's not a valid excuse to close of the game as insanely as they have. You're the one desperately grasping for straws

No, it's actually a very valid argument. You say you're not in a world because certain areas are blocked off. I say, based off of your rationale, we're not living in a world because I can't just freely walk into another person's house. The correlation is there even if you don't get it. Also, it wasn't an excuse for them doing it, it was a response to how ridiculous your rationale is pertaining to the subject.

No it isn't, unless you and a friend rolled the exact same class you can not play with one another in these areas, doesn't matter if you don't like the class or not, in order to participate in these together you have to be same class. Otherwise, you're off to play on your own once class quests comes up.

So out of four classes, you both have to pick the exact same one for it that to be possible.

No, you don't. It specifically says that only same classes AREN'T allowed in your story area unless you allow them. Other than that, I'd like for you to explain why my wife (a Sorc) and I (a BH) were able to help each other during class quests, along with seeing the cutscenes. Honestly, have you ever even played this game?

Also, I'd like for you to understand that "MMO" and "immersion" are two different things. While all games need to have "immersion" in order to be successful (who wants to play a game that you don't feel like you're a part of?), all games are not MMOs. Long corridors, phasing, invisible walls, inaccessible areas, long loading screens, those all break "immersion". However, they don't make a game less of an "MMO".

[Harmzuay]

No it isn't, unless you and a friend rolled the exact same class you can not play with one another in these areas, doesn't matter if you don't like the class or not, in order to participate in these together you have to be same class. Otherwise, you're off to play on your own once class quests comes up.

As notorious stated above, this isn't true. When my friend decided to try out the game, he rolled a Knight, I rolled a Consular to level with him. We both played through each other's starting area story (I went into "Spectator Mode" when he had a cutscene) and helped each other 100% along the way. Neither of us were never locked out of anything as long as we were in a group.

So you could say that's even MORE reason to have someone to play with and interact with other players. You actually get more of the story, lore, "immersion" and "MMO" if you do.

[Deleted]

No, it's actually a very valid argument. You say you're not in a world because certain areas are blocked off. I say, based off of your rationale, we're not living in a world because I can't just freely walk into another person's house. The correlation is there even if you don't get it. Also, it wasn't an excuse for them doing it, it was a response to how ridiculous your rationale is pertaining to the subject.

No it's hardcore straw grasping, nothing else. I'm saying it's not a massive world because it's small as fuck and even then areas are blocked of. "HURR I CAN'T GO INTO EVERY HOUSE IRL" does nothing to deflect that, this is not a real world simulator, the correlation is not there even if you in your stupidity seem to think it is. So because you can't go into every house in real life that somehow makes SWTORs world massive? But hey, even by your faulty "logic" you still fail, because I sure as heck didn't know we're unable to swim in the real world. Nor did I know I'd get automatically killed if I walk too far into the woods or whatever. But I guess when those examples are brought up you're not so eager to compare to the real world any longer since it doesn't create the spin you want to hear.

To just about every modern MMO SWTOR is a rat maze with certain areas blocked of and dead static worlds, it's not even attempting to simulate a living and breathing world.

You think it has an MMO feel? Congratulations you officially have very low standards, enjoy you mannequin NPC's and corridors, most people seem to not to.

---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 10:58 AM ----------

So you could say that's even MORE reason to have someone to play with and interact with other players. You actually get more of the story, lore, "immersion" and "MMO" if you do.

You don't interact with other players, you only roll for what response will come up from an NPC, there's no more story or lore just because it's voice acted (poorly).

[Harmzuay]

You don't interact with other players, you only roll for what response will come up from an NPC, there's no more story or lore just because it's voice acted (poorly).

I'm not sure if you understood my point and disagree or you understand it and just don't care to respond to it. It doesn't sound like you understand what I was saying from that response. Either way, I'll stop here because it seems you're only interested in appearing more enlightened than the rest of us.

[FusedMass]

Snip

What exactly did this game ...steal from warcraft. I use that term very very loosely because from my understanding Warcraft was not the first major mmo ever created. In fact in everquest well before it swelled up to 10 million was the major mmo. In fact the devs from warcraft were with war hammer before they departed so you could say they even stole from them.

I have no issue with your points. But they didn't steal from this mmo much less then any other mmo steals from any other when making a mmo.I for myself wanted to compare it as the game itself rather then comparing games to..games that been out for over a decade. The flaws in TOR design the major and most noticeable was

A: The Hero Engine- It made things very limited and glitch. While it was very very cheap in the long run they would been better hiring more experienced people and created it from ground up

A: No Music? How does a MMO miss this. You should have a small mini radio where you can change channels. Not many complain about this but its part of the interactive experience that we are missing. In PVP you hear some different tracks. You have several planets. You could have made a different theme for each one

The list goes on. Generally I was happy with the game. Some things it did correctly:

Companions: I liked having them with me doing missions. They give a slight edge and you can do their class missions. ( I mostly max out affection )

Legacy: They really should not make you get a certain legacy level..just to unlock..the option to buy that perk. But if it was free it would encourage more alts

Their are good and bad things to every game. I'm personally glad I'm not compelled to log in everyday and do 10 hours. Its a good experience and I'm still subbed.

[Deleted]

I was always dubious of it's success, I never expected a WoW killer and knew it would never reach 9 million players. That said it was a good game with vast potential. I however blame Bioware completely, they seemingly didn't listen to their customers, basic features never arrived and ultimately it became stale very quickly. A shame as it had potential but failed to reach them due to a CBA attitude

[notorious98]

I'm saying it's not a massive world
So because you can't go into every house in real life that somehow makes SWTORs world massive?

If you add up the landmass of every planet, yes, it's massive. Also, I don't know if you can't comprehend what I'm saying or you just feel this intense need to be obtuse, but the logic works whether you want to believe it or not. If it's not a world simulator, then why are you bitching about how it doesn't feel like you're in a world? And where did you even create that second sentence from? Who the hell made those correlations besides you?

But I guess when those examples are brought up you're not so eager to compare to the real world any longer since it doesn't create the spin you want to hear.

Actually, most modern MMOs will kill you if you go too far out in the water. Or too far away from the landmasses. And you can't swim in TOR because none of the bodies of water are deep enough for you to need to. It's hard to swim if the only bodies of water are, essentially, puddles. Good try though.

You think it has an MMO feel? Congratulations you officially have very low standards, enjoy you mannequin NPC's and corridors, most people seem to not to.

Once again, you need to learn the definition of "MMO". You obviously don't have a clue what it is. But I won't enjoy all of those things because I don't even play the game. I just try to fight ignorance, something that you've come into this conversation with in droves.

---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 10:10 AM ----------

No Music? How does a MMO miss this. You should have a small mini radio where you can change channels. Not many complain about this but its part of the interactive experience that we are missing.

There are MMOs with "mini radio" music like that? I don't know of any. They have background music in the game just like any other MMO I've seen. In fact, I've never felt more epic running up some stairs than I did in TOR.

[Deleted]

An entire galaxy with no water deeper than 2ft

[Deleted]

If you add up the landmass of every planet, yes, it's massive. Also, I don't know if you can't comprehend what I'm saying or you just feel this intense need to be obtuse, but the logic works whether you want to believe it or not. If it's not a world simulator, then why are you bitching about how it doesn't feel like you're in a world? And where did you even create that second sentence from? Who the hell made those correlations besides you?

And all that landmass is chopped up between multiple loading screens and shards, making it NOT massive. So your point being? Besides straw grasping that is. When other games that call themselves massive multiplayer online games don't lock their players up in rat mazes with multiple loading screens, with even more areas blocked of, you honestly think people are just going to go "oh it's ok because if I ignore these loading screens and corridors and mash all the landmass together in my imagination it becomes big and free."?

Actually, most modern MMOs will kill you if you go too far out in the water. Or too far away from the landmasses. And you can't swim in TOR because none of the bodies of water are deep enough for you to need to. It's hard to swim if the only bodies of water are, essentially, puddles. Good try though.

You can't swim in SWTOR because the bodies are not deep enough? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what an utterly pathethic attempt at an excuse. Why did they make it like that then? Did they think players would enjoy the feeling of a ball and chain? I'd like to say good try but it was as said, a pathethic try to excuse one of the games many shortcomings.

Once again, you need to learn the definition of "MMO". You obviously don't have a clue what it is. But I won't enjoy all of those things because I don't even play the game. I just try to fight ignorance, something that you've come into this conversation with in droves.

Oh boy the guy who says SWTOR is massive because the landmass combined is massive yet conveniently ignores the multiple loading screens and engines inability to handle any mentionable number of players without suffering from massive diarrhea says I'm ignorant and don't understand what constitutes an MMO. Did the 2 mil + players lack this knowledge as well?

[notorious98]

And all that landmass is chopped up between multiple loading screens and shards, making it NOT massive. So your point being? Besides straw grasping that is. When other games that call themselves massive multiplayer online games don't lock their players up in rat mazes with multiple loading screens, with even more areas blocked of, you honestly think people are just going to go "oh it's ok because if I ignore these loading screens and corridors and mash all the landmass together in my imagination it becomes big and free."?

Once again, it doesn't make the universe any less massive. The loading screens destroy immersion, but don't make the playable areas any less massive. Just because it isn't seamless doesn't make it any less large. It only does for you because you've created arbitrary definitions for what makes things massive based on your own biased opinion.

You can't swim in SWTOR because the bodies are not deep enough? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what an utterly pathethic attempt at an excuse. Why did they make it like that then? Did they think players would enjoy the feeling of a ball and chain? I'd like to say good try but it was as said, a pathethic try to excuse one of the games many shortcomings.

It's not an excuse, it's the truth. Whether it was a good design or not isn't the point. You said they can't swim, I gave the reason why they can't swim. Now how about you answer the other part about Fatigue and how you rail on TOR about it but fail to realize it's in most every other MMO also.

Oh boy the guy who says SWTOR is massive because the landmass combined is massive yet conveniently ignores the multiple loading screens and engines inability to handle any mentionable number of players without suffering from massive diarrhea says I'm ignorant and don't understand what constitutes an MMO. Did the 2 mil + players lack this knowledge as well?

You seem to think that "Open world" and "MMO" mean the same thing. They don't. DDO is an MMO and it doesn't have any open world environments. The 2 mil + players that left TOR did it for a variety of reasons, many of which involve the lack of endgame, the lack of world PvP, just found the game boring, etc. I remember hearing the cries about loading screens, but not many of them were cries of "I quit" as opposed to "I don't like this". And nobody ignored the multiple loading screens or the problems with the engine. You're just so consumed in your own ignorance that you have completely failed to read any of my responses. Especially the ones where I actually said that the engine was a problem and a valid point when it comes to why the game lacks an MMO feel, but the multiple loading screens just break immersion. I'm done arguing with you. You obviously can't even be bothered to actually read what somebody responds to you with. Instead you'd rather just spew garbage from your keyboard and pretend you know what you're talking about.

---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 10:57 AM ----------

An entire galaxy with no water deeper than 2ft

I agree, kinda dumb design.

[Deleted]

Did the 2 mil + players lack this knowledge as well?

I wouldn't go using the number of people who quit to back your point up. Those people quit for a multitude of reasons. I'm sure some quit due to TOR lacking that MMO feeling but I'd wager it's a small percentage seeing as the ones I know who quit did so mainly due to a lack of endgame content.

[Deleted]

Once again, it doesn't make the universe any less massive. The loading screens destroy immersion, but don't make the playable areas any less massive. Just because it isn't seamless doesn't make it any less large. It only does for you because you've created arbitrary definitions for what makes things massive based on your own biased opinion.

Yes it does, it becomes nothing more than a glorified lobby game, pathethic try again,

It's not an excuse, it's the truth. Whether it was a good design or not isn't the point. You said they can't swim, I gave the reason why they can't swim. Now how about you answer the other part about Fatigue and how you rail on TOR about it but fail to realize it's in most every other MMO also.

You're right, it's an attempt at an excuse not an actual excuse. Again you try and spin it with "every other mmo does it" yet conveniently ignore that SWTOR is an extreme, because that doesn't fit the spin you're trying to put on it.

I actually said that the engine was a problem and a valid point

So you agree that the problems you've earlier tried to deny to death are in fact real now since they are a product of the engine (or sheer and utter incompetence which is far less flattering)? Try and keep your spin straight spindoctor.

[l33t]

skip

Very much agreed with all this.
F2P option is just silly. Instead of fixing the thing that mostly destructed the game itself - lack of nice new and shiny content - they are trying to sell same old shit while doing nothing new at all. It's just so much pathetic and laughable.
Oh, the new expansion pack - omg, it is a ONE new planet? One? Really? Comparing the size of the SW world to the size of a generic worlds in any other mmo, it is very much like "we added one new location". Lol again. One location for twenty bucks?
The game itself was great at its start, but the stupidity and unprofessionalism of its creators has killed it. RIP.
ps. And, by the way, Hero Engine has nothing to do with TOR failure. Look at Archeage. It runs on HE and shows lots of amazing possibilities. When dev's curvy hands grow from ass, it's not game engine to blame.

[ariakul]

I'm having flashbacks to the Star Wars Galaxies disaster whenever I play this game now..............

Do they not have a test server for testing?

The one thing that is going to kill new people from playing: MOVEMENT.

I made a "real" free to play account, between the 2 hour cool down on using the teleport, and not getting sprint until level 15.............. it is soooooooooo frustrating to play. People will spend most their time in game.................RUNNING. Heck, I found myself committing suicide to just move faster.