Did the Forsaken get a new "image" since Cataclysm?

[Dreknar20]

I just remembered that bit from Drek'thar in Hillsbrad

To be fair Drek'thar is a bit biased just simply because he isnt undead

To a living person decaying vegetation and fields of fungus and mushrooms is nasty and destruction of otherwise pristine land, but to a Forsaken thats not destruction of land but the better-ment of the land

[Duito]

Ever since Cata they have been Lawful Evil and in Sylvanas's case probably Neutral Evil given how she states in her Short Story to have no regard for the Forsaken and that they are just a tool for her to not die.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeutralEvil

Sylvanas's needs to be killed, she is a wretched...wicked,spiteful, Bitch!

[Verdugo]

Sylvanas's needs to be killed, she is a wretched...wicked,spiteful, Bitch!

Thats not a legit reason to kill someone.

[Dreknar20]

Thats not a legit reason to kill someone.

we kill people in Warcraft for much less reasons

[Totle]

The last "rightful heir" of Lordaeron killed them all, why would you possibly think they would hold any love for his sister, a girl that has done nothing of note for anyone in years? At best, they'd see her with resentment if she is still alive, hardly anyone would "love" her. She'd be the remainder of what they lost and what her brother did to them. The Forsaken only hold love and respect for Terenas because he died too.

As a personal note, I greatly dislike the mentioning of Calia Menethil as an argument. If she is alive, I have nothing against the girl. I hope she is doing her thing and living a fulfilling life. But she's the last remnant of a fallen monarchy, and with all the death and destruction that her blood has brought; her use as an icon or figure would bring more pain than any good, moreso this late. Had she rallied loyalist to the crown after the fall of Lordaeron, she would have been seen as a hero trying to reclaim her throne and redeem her brother's sins. That would have been cool. But after all these years and she keeping quiet, why would any of the battered once and again Lordaeron citzens care for her? where was she when Hillsbrad was left adrift and fighting for survival? where was her when they where finally overrun by the forsaken, and assimilated?

Calia, at this point, should keep quiet. No one could blame her for retiring and trying to distance herself. But she lost any right to reclaim her throne when she left behind her subjects that didn't die.[COLOR="red"]

Again - she was a beloved princess. The people of Lordaeron were not mindless idiots to believe that the entire House of Menethil was backing Arthas, especially after the slaughter of Terenas.

Also, you're assuming that Calia was in a position to do something. First, I'll direct you here: http://www.wowpedia.org/Calia_Menethil where you can scroll down to the Horde RPG portion. Secondly, what loyalists are left? From Tirisfal all the way down to Brill in Southshore, most of the citizens of Lordaeron were turned to Scourge. We don't even know if Calia herself escaped the transformation. Arthas seems to indicate that she didn't.

Finally, Sylvannas had her moment with the Forsaken, but she let the power corrupt her. Regardless of who replaces her, the fact remains that for the Forsaken to remain a part of the player base without becoming a second Scourge or breaking off into their own faction, there desperately needs to be a regime change.

[Verdugo]

Finally, Sylvannas had her moment with the Forsaken, but she let the power corrupt her. Regardless of who replaces her, the fact remains that for the Forsaken to remain a part of the player base without becoming a second Scourge or breaking off into their own faction, there desperately needs to be a regime change.

Then maybe its for the best that Forsaken become part of the third faction. Them being part of the Horde was bullshit from the start.

[Dreknar20]

Then maybe its for the best that Forsaken become part of the third faction. Them being part of the Horde was bullshit from the start.

its make sense to some degree

The Forsaken at that time were a shaggy bunch just getting on their feet. They needed help to contend with powerful enemies in the form of the Alliance, Scourge, and Scarlet Crusade

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 05:52 PM ----------

Finally, Sylvannas had her moment with the Forsaken, but she let the power corrupt her. Regardless of who replaces her, the fact remains that for the Forsaken to remain a part of the player base without becoming a second Scourge or breaking off into their own faction, there desperately needs to be a regime change.

Whats wrong with having a shady race? Some people enjoy that kinda feel/vibe.

We cant have every race be bright and shiny good two shoes.

[Shefu]

Finally, Sylvannas had her moment with the Forsaken, but she let the power corrupt her. Regardless of who replaces her, the fact remains that for the Forsaken to remain a part of the player base without becoming a second Scourge or breaking off into their own faction, there desperately needs to be a regime change.

And how exactly would you see a Forsaken leadership? One of peace and love, Pandaren style? For God sakes, people within our own faction dislike us simply for being undead, without a strong leader, we would be Azeroth's punching bag. If anything, Sylvannas is the only one that can actually keep everyone in check. Not to mention that she's the only one in the Horde that has the balls to stand up to Garrosh. Thrall retired, Vol'jin laid low till now, and got bitch slapped, barely made it alive. Baine is just chilling, and the Goblin leader is ....where exactly is he? Lor'themar can not be trusted, he wanted to rejoin Alliance, is interesting how he became regent Lord when Halduron was Sylvanna's second in command, if anything he should have been chosen. Bottom line is, as evil as some of you make her out to be, she would be the only one fit to actually lead this God Forsaken Horde.

[Pyrolight]

Are the Forsaken Evil?

Rank and file? - No.
Leadership? - Yes.

Really since the creating of the new plague it has been pretty clear that Sylvanas wants to be the next LK.

It was stated that holy and discipline trees are avalaible to them purely because of gameplay reasons.

True until Blizzard decided to make all races use the Light. Forsaken use it, Night Elves are hinted to use it. I sometimes think George Lucas is giving Bliz story advice.

[Claymore]

Absolutely. Prior to Cataclysm I kinda enjoyed their story.

Prior to Cata we saw them as a race that was more or less breaking every moral code in the book for the sake of vengeance against the Scourge while being ravenously hunted by the Scarlet Crusade. At times they were rotten to the core and evil and were all to happy to stab their "allies" in the back at a moments notice, then they had moments where you did feel a bit of sympathy for these people who had been turned into walking corpses.

Now they're evil. They're a race now pretty much hell bent on killing everybody who aren't one of their "allies" (for now). Plague everywhere, Necromancy and open betrayal of the Horde with their disregard for the use of a banned weapon. They're sadistic and really don't give a toss for who they kill. They're now content with raiding their foes into their sorry state of existence for the sake of conquering more land and keep Sylvanas alive.
"The hunter is nothing without the hunt" pretty much sums them up atm imho, they've had their revenge on the Scourge and Arthas and now they've rather lost the plot.

That's exactly what I think, too. I never played an Undead, because I hate their zombie-like appearance, but I always really dug their overall "feel". They really felt like the true underdog. The line I remember most was one of the NPC's saying something along the lines of "I don't know which bothers me more; that I don't have feelings for my family anymore, or that I simply don't care". You really felt like these were actual people, who had been changed by their experiences in undeath. Now, though, it's "I'm so goddamn evil, I'm going to murder a puppy, *foams at mouth*". They lack the haunting sense of despair and emptiness that made them so compelling to begin with.

[Verdugo]

That's exactly what I think, too. I never played an Undead, because I hate their zombie-like appearance, but I always really dug their overall "feel". They really felt like the true underdog. The line I remember most was one of the NPC's saying something along the lines of "I don't know which bothers me more; that I don't have feelings for my family anymore, or that I simply don't care". You really felt like these were actual people, who had been changed by their experiences in undeath. Now, though, it's "I'm so goddamn evil, I'm going to murder a puppy, *foams at mouth*". They lack the haunting sense of despair and emptiness that made them so compelling to begin with.

If I wanted to play as a desperate wreck I would roll a Night Elf.

[Dreknar20]

That's exactly what I think, too. I never played an Undead, because I hate their zombie-like appearance, but I always really dug their overall "feel". .

haha pretty much how I think

Though I dont really dig the Forsaken just find them very interesting.

[Shefu]

If I wanted to play as a desperate wreck I would roll a Night Elf.

Haha, nice! But it's true on so many levels. People feel pity for the Forsaken, but take a look the Night Elves, they're still crying over their past. Even the BE's managed to get it together. Yet the Forsaken are "hateful!" right.

[Deleted]

Haha, nice! But it's true on so many levels. People feel pity for the Forsaken, but take a look the Night Elves, they're still crying over their past. Even the BE's managed to get it together. Yet the Forsaken are "hateful!" right.

How are the Night Elves crying over their past in any way?

[Combatbutler]

How are the Night Elves crying over their past in any way?

I guess he means their lost immortality,they are a bit whiny about it. Though I wouldn't call it crying, just very serious trouble to adapt to mortality.

[Deleted]

No, it's not reasonable.
Because for every shared trait between the Forsaken and the Scourge, I could come up with a trait shared with the Humans.
That doesn't mean you can say they are becoming like the Scourge.

I'm not even going to discuss this fallacy.

Your opinion seems to be that, just because two groups, here the Forsaken and the Scourge, are both participating in the same "activity", here the killing of living people and the raising of said people into undeath, doesn't mean that they are the same. Your argument is that even if they share one trait, they are not 100% the same.

No 2 groups are 100% the same. That's why they're different groups. That doesn't mean you can't compare them to each other.
For example, if the humans make a pact with demons and invade a different world to conquer it, no matter how unlikely that is, it's perfectly reasonable to compare them to orcs. You can't say, that that comparison would be unjustified, because that's the only thing humans and orcs have in common.

So? Just because Drek'thar has this opinion doesn't mean it's the truth.

Even their own allies consider them vile.

To be fair Drek'thar is a bit biased just simply because he isnt undead

To a living person decaying vegetation and fields of fungus and mushrooms is nasty and destruction of otherwise pristine land, but to a Forsaken thats not destruction of land but the better-ment of the land

That is just fucking stupid. Rot and decay is rot and decay. "You just can't appreciate it because you are not undead!"

---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 08:22 PM ----------

I guess he means their lost immortality,they are a bit whiny about it. Though I wouldn't call it crying, just very serious trouble to adapt to mortality.

They're not whiny. They've accepted it to a great extent.

[Verdugo]

That is just fucking stupid. Rot and decay is rot and decay. "You just can't appreciate it because you are not undead!"[COLOR="red"]

Rot and decay is important part of life, is it not?

If anything, Undeath represents preservance.

[Pfeff]

To me, it sounds like their will of vengeance from the first video has been completed, since Arthas is done for now

[Deleted]

Rot and decay is important part of life, is it not?

If anything, Undeath represents preservance.

That doesn't mean you should bring it everywhere. Important part of life, because everything that lives, dies at some point. You might as well suggest we should kill everything or turn everything into undeath. Only makes you sound more like the Scourge.

[Deleted]

Deathguard Dillinger:

Speaking frankly, the Forsaken of yesteryear were a sniveling, pathetic group. We huddled together in decrepit old human buildings, hiding from the Scourge, cowering from the Alliance, and groveling at the foot of the Horde.

Look before you now, and see the product of the new Forsaken. We have made our mark here on Azeroth, and that mark will grow. Our dominion will soon blanket the world!

You want my advice? Speak with Magistrate Sevren in Brill, down this road. He runs that town.

I think that describes well what were the Forsaken and what they are now