Fiscal Cliff deal "within sight", according to Obama

[Shâréz]

I'm just going to say it, and I know its going to bring up a bunch of "bias!11!" posts but seriously, the GOP is the biggest fucking problem in our government.

I'd say it's both parties, combined with a two-party political system.

[starlord]

No no no, they're not. They are a force for good in so many ways. I think we're in a big mess that this single event isn't going to rectify, but taxes going up on almost all Americans is not good, not going to help matters. We need a deal.

why wouldnt it help matters?

[FusedMass]

Fiscal Cliff Deadline Will Be Missed After House Punts On Vote

The United States government will miss the end-of-the-year deadline to resolve the so-called fiscal cliff, House Republicans conceded Monday afternoon.

The House of Representatives will adjourn Dec. 31 without voting on a bill to delay the impending tax hikes and spending cuts that will begin going into effect tomorrow. Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) sent the following update to party members on Monday afternoon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2389831.html

[starlord]

Fiscal Cliff Deadline Will Be Missed After House Punts On Vote

The United States government will miss the end-of-the-year deadline to resolve the so-called fiscal cliff, House Republicans conceded Monday afternoon.

The House of Representatives will adjourn Dec. 31 without voting on a bill to delay the impending tax hikes and spending cuts that will begin going into effect tomorrow. Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) sent the following update to party members on Monday afternoon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2389831.html

disappointing but hardly surprising.

[Rukentuts]

Thanks GOP. Pretty much flushed any vote for you in the foreseeable future.

[Shâréz]

why wouldnt it help matters?

Because it's a band-aid measurement that will only work in short term. Unemployment and overspending are the two main problems they should be looking at. Not increasing the costs of living for people.

Higher taxes -> less spending force -> less money in circulation -> bad for economy.

[Ausr]

Great way to spin this and blame it entirely on Republicans, if Democrats/Obama are smart about it.

[FusedMass]

Great way to spin this and blame it entirely on Republicans, if Democrats/Obama are smart about it.

It kinda is Republicans fault. They could six months ago bring a measure to a vote to expend tax cuts for 98 percent of the people and 97 percent of small business. That passed in the senate and it would be a down payment enough to avoid going off the cliff. As Obama as said if we all agree on protecting the middle class then pass it and he will sign it.

Even some Republicans admit that this is a political victory for Obama and according to CNN Polls. Most favor Obama in the deals then the Republicans. It pretty much looks like they are protecting the ultra rich aka 2 percent of the nation over 98 percent of the people. Over a silly pledge that is non legal to not raise taxes.

[starlord]

Great way to spin this and blame it entirely on Republicans, if Democrats/Obama are smart about it.

not much need to spin.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 01:55 PM ----------

Because it's a band-aid measurement that will only work in short term. Unemployment and overspending are the two main problems they should be looking at. Not increasing the costs of living for people.

Higher taxes -> less spending force -> less money in circulation -> bad for economy.

higher taxes arent going to affect employment. we had this problem even in a booming economy because the taxes were too low and spending too high. raising taxes is a must. making programs at the least more effecient is also a must.

[Linkedblade]

higher taxes arent going to affect employment.

Someone needs to go reread the econ 101 book. Of course higher taxes affect employment. If a company wants to continue to earn more, or at least the same amount of, revenue they must cut costs somewhere. If the taxes are raised then the first thing they usually do is cut employment of the lower end of services. Janitorial, extra secretaries, etc.

You want to fix the US debt/ yearly deficits, I'll give you a hint in nice bold letters:

THEY NEED TO CUT A LOT.

[artemishunter1]

Because it's a band-aid measurement that will only work in short term. Unemployment and overspending are the two main problems they should be looking at. Not increasing the costs of living for people.

Higher taxes -> less spending force -> less money in circulation -> bad for economy.

your theory makes sense except when examined with context.

Higher taxes will create problem if the amount of money people had was low. People are sitting on their money right now since the economic recession. The rich have disposable income that is never going to get used, not even in their lifetime and won't even be used by their heirs (as the heirs themselves would make their own money). The people who are living pay check to pay check, wont' see the rise in taxes anyway.

[stresskiller]

exchange rate will soon be 10 dollars for one Euro

[Shâréz]

higher taxes arent going to affect employment. we had this problem even in a booming economy because the taxes were too low and spending too high. raising taxes is a must. making programs at the least more effecient is also a must.

It won't affect unemployment if it's just the higher incomes/rich people that get a tax raise, true. However in general it does affect unemployment.

Less spending -> less income for companies -> companies having to cut back costs which, for example, may include doing more work/the same work with less employee's.

Sure that won't happen within days or weeks; but in the long run it will.

your theory makes sense except when examined with context.

Higher taxes will create problem if the amount of money people had was low. People are sitting on their money right now since the economic recession. The rich have disposable income that is never going to get used, not even in their lifetime and won't even be used by their heirs (as the heirs themselves would make their own money). The people who are living pay check to pay check, wont' see the rise in taxes anyway.

Yeah you are right, if it's just for the rich/high incomes it won't really matter as much.

[FusedMass]

If anyone is curious this is the video that sparked an outrage in the Republican Party. So badly were they insulted by Obama's words that I suspect this is what lead to the stalling. But it really is not an excuse because they were offended to delay the cliff. Its kinda like they are putting themselves before the people they work for.

[Shâréz]

If anyone is curious this is the video that sparked an outrage in the Republican Party. So badly were they insulted by Obama's words that I suspect this is what lead to the stalling. But it really is not an excuse because they were offended to delay the cliff. Its kinda like they are putting themselves before the people they work for.

I really don't get the behaviour either, it's childish. Wasn't the fiscal cliff designed so that it's a much worse scenario for both democrats and republicans?

[Linkedblade]

<snip>

Well what about retirees? They dont see any gains from anywhere. The economic situation is piss poor. The Federal reserve has driven interest rates to near 0%. Local banks of savings accounts interest rates at 0.01% nominal yearly. Those with savings accounts are losing from pay period to pay period. The middle class is dwindling, because they literally cannot save due to the interest rates being so low. Now the upper class gets taxed even more, because of this failed socialist ideal that everyone has to share?

Taxes aren't the answer. Hell, the Government should only have enough money to reinburst those who needs it as defined in the Constitution. The tax rate should be near 0%. The government needs to cut all frivolous programs that are no where near successful (Departments of Commerce, Energy, Education, HUD, Interior). Cut all the BS spending that we waste on the military. Re-dictate fiscal policy to the Senate. Disband the Federal Reserve. And Stop unnecessary printing of US currency.

The 40% income tax on the rich is NOTHING compared to the hyperinflation being caused by the Federal Reserve.

[Jetstream]

The 40% income tax on the rich is NOTHING compared to the hyperinflation being caused by the Federal Reserve.

Last time I checked food was still affordable, if expensive. I don't think you know what the word "hyperinflation" means. I'm not spending all my pay on a single loaf of bread, mate.

I ain't rich and I still have a place to live. Money still has value. In a state of hyperinflation, currency devalues so rapidly it can't even be tracked.

[Linkedblade]

I really don't get the behaviour either, it's childish. Wasn't the fiscal cliff designed so that it's a much worse scenario for both democrats and republicans?

Well that would be true, but neither party wants to make any significant cuts. Both just want to cater to whomever they please. They aren't concerned with the actual fiscal cliff. They are just conerned with getting what their own respective party wants.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 05:16 PM ----------

Last time I checked food was still affordable, if expensive. I don't think you know what the word "hyperinflation" means. I'm not spending all my pay on a single loaf of bread, mate.

I ain't rich and I still have a place to live. Money still has value. In a state of hyperinflation, currency devalues so rapidly it can't even be tracked.

I think you don't understand the difference between the process of and the end result of hyperinflation. The dollar is quickly losing value by day. At a much faster rate than in the past. That is hyperinflation. Granted this isn't 1930's Germany, but we will eventually get that bad if we don't stop with the silly printing of our currency.

[FusedMass]

I really don't get the behaviour either, it's childish. Wasn't the fiscal cliff designed so that it's a much worse scenario for both democrats and republicans?

It was created so we are made to deal with our situation. It should not even be there. The markets will react very badly to the news. Thankfully the stock markets are closed tomorrow. They will re-open on Tuesday and if there is not something passed it will be bad economic for everyone. I find it a little disappointing. I disagree with Republicans on a certain level.

Its both reckless and not responsible for them not to least pass the tax cuts for 98 percent of the people.

[starlord]

It won't affect unemployment if it's just the higher incomes/rich people that get a tax raise, true. However in general it does affect unemployment.

Less spending -> less income for companies -> companies having to cut back costs which, for example, may include doing more work/the same work with less employee's.

Sure that won't happen within days or weeks; but in the long run it will.



Yeah you are right, if it's just for the rich/high incomes it won't really matter as much.

companies arent the ones hurting for money right now. theyve been making money hand over fist.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nce-recession/