RBG rating services for $$ advertised withing game with name and surname!!!!

[llandrywyn]

he's greek what do you expect

Not cool >.<

[Deleted]

he's greek what do you expect

This is a disgusting comment and is not relevant to the topic.

[Blackmist]

RBG boosting your mate does not break any laws, however, RBG boosting in exchange for real money in a third party's commercial enterprise does break laws and it is illegal, as is illegal to tax evade, especially so in the United Kingdom.

You only have to charge VAT once your gross annual revenue goes over £77,000.

You're unlikely to get that from a bit of scamming, frankly. And even less likely to declare it, since there's a 99% chance they're not even in the UK and will just take your money and account details, use that account to spam even more servers and make even more money.

[ipaq]

So, I can advertise selling -say- narcotics through the game chat and that would be pretty cool with Blizzard, so long as I communicate outside the game and exchange currency outside the game?

Noted, thanks.

You don't happen to be affiliated with Blizzard Europe in any way, do you?

Hyperbole to 11 again?

1. TOS != Read Life Law;
2. If he's booting ppl and they're paying him real money, he just have to buy a new account from blizzard (saw battle chest at $5 US);
3. People can always press charges to the popo if he do not deliver the good they paid for, but you'll waste the court time for less than $100;


Why are you trying to win the interwebz argument (which you clearly have no clue about) by posting such things?

---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 09:10 AM ----------

You only have to charge VAT once your gross annual revenue goes over £77,000.

You're unlikely to get that from a bit of scamming, frankly. And even less likely to declare it, since there's a 99% chance they're not even in the UK and will just take your money and account details, use that account to spam even more servers and make even more money.

I once calculate that <Goon Squad>/Mal'ganis pay to be a member/get gear scam was getting them at least 10k a month. And their still around =D

(Just google them)

[Deleted]

OT: Even if blizz did something against the mentioned guy a new one would appear anyway so its a waste of time I guess.

*sarcasm* Yea, why bother with goldsellers and hackers and phishers, in the end new ones will appear so it's a waste of time, better leave them all to do what they like and turn WoW into a contest of who has best hacks/who who can phish you better or sell more gold for real money, they could even give awards.

Actually, same for real life, why bother catching a thief? There's going to be other thieves anyway, waste of time!*sarcasm end*

[Sturmbringe]

You seem to be lacking in the ability to comprehend, so I'll take this really slow.

1. Unless an action breaks a law, it can be legally offered as a service between two consenting adults, for payment, unless specific legislation is in place to prevent it (consentual sex for money being criminalised by anti prostitution laws is the most commonly cited example).
2. Playing a video game as a proxy for another individual is not legislated against under US or British law.
3. Subsequently, offering a power levelling or rating boosting service is not in violation of any criminal statute as long as the service is provided as a legally registered contractor and all relevent revenue streams are submitted to the relevent taxation authority.
4. It is, however, a violation of Blizzard's ToS to conduct such activities; a civil contract between a corporation and the individual using the software. This violation is a civil matter only.

Subsequently, as long as all income is reported, there is no crime being committed; only a civil liability that Blizzard is at their leisure to pursue, or not, as their legal department sees fit. If, however, you have evidence that "CJ" is not paying his taxes, I am sure your local authorities will be enthralled to hear what you have to say.

You are unable to follow, so I will say this again:

Selling a web service in exchange for real money in a third party's commercial enterprise without the third party's explicit consent is illegal and it is against the law, and so is tax evading.

I do hope you will be able to get it now.

[Kisho]

So uh... Where's your proof that Blizzard are doing nothing? I mean, if anything, you've got proof that they are doing something: the guy keeps posting from new characters all the time. He wouldn't do that if he didn't need to, which means he's constantly getting banned and is posting on new accounts.

He's obviously not using the account he does the boosting on to advertise, so what else can Blizzard do? If all the conversation happens outside of the game, thus outside of Blizzard's jurisdiction... Then all that's happening (that can be proved) is some guy is grouping with a bunch of random people and being awfully nice about giving them boosts to high RBG rating. If nothing is mentioned in-game, then what can be done?

Blizzard aren't omnipotent or omniscient. They need proof to be able to act. Your reports are helping: they're getting the advertising accounts banned, as proven by the constant stream of new characters. But they can't remove the cause, because there's nothing linking the advertising accounts to the main account (assuming the person behind the accounts is being clever about it).

Insinuating that Blizzard are somehow taking a cut of the profits is hilarious, btw. Undermines any credibility you may have had.

[Deleted]

he's greek what do you expect

OOOH BURRRN I SEE WAT U DID THARRR...

No but seriously... "Keep reporting"

[Deleted]

What we got from this thread.
Selling in game services for Real Money, is not only illegal, but also a felony, it's also the same as selling drugs,
Selling RBG boosts is the same Gold Selling and hacking people, also, the same as Real Life thiefs.


“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

[Darsithis]

OP: It's not illegal. They're not going to be arrested, in any country that Blizzard is in. They are, however, breaking the TOS as defined by Blizzard and Blizzard can take necessary actions to deny them access to the game.

IF they use credit card fraud (such as stealing a card to pay for the account), that's a crime punishable by law but really has nothing to do with Blizzard or WoW and everything to do with identity theft and financial crime.

[ipaq]

What we got from this thread.
Selling in game services for Real Money, is not only illegal, but also a felony, it's also the same as selling drugs,
Selling RBG boosts is the same Gold Selling and hacking people, also, the same as Real Life thiefs.


“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

Rofl you got that from this thread?

All I got is ppl losing an interwebz argument and using unsubstantiated statement.

Neither you or that other poster can post "anything" proving their points.

There is no such law applicable.

1. Now hacking accounts: prove it, $5 buy you a license from blizzard;
2. Now evading taxes: paypal has systems to report your earning to your accounting system for tax purpose;
(Which I'm using for my Business)
3. Now advertising on blizzard channel: Its part of Blizzard made laws and enforceable by them and not real life;

So unless you can prove that the guy broke 1 or 2... all your statements are just the usual BS.

What you should get from this thread is that Blizzard has stop trying to make their community cool and are letting their customers behaving like massive anti-social dbags 24/7.

[Nacly]

I've seen this on my server too and although the advertisement in itself stays the same, with (almost) every new day the "real" name is changed, the Skype account is different and it's all posted from a brand new level 1 toon.

Using Skype is just a way for them to make sure that the conversation stays outside of the game and Blizzard can only do so much about that.

[Sturmbringe]

OP: It's not illegal. They're not going to be arrested, in any country that Blizzard is in. They are, however, breaking the TOS as defined by Blizzard and Blizzard can take necessary actions to deny them access to the game.
.

I believe that making use of a third party's commercial enterprise and tools thereof to make money by selling a service which can only be delivered by accessing that third party's commercial enterprise and making use of its tools, is illegal and is against the law since the commercial enterprise is not being compensated and expressly forbids such activities.

I don't know if you remember what happened with that WOTLK private server that charged a premium for access to its servers. Blizzard sued them and managed to close them them down, even though they have let all other "free" private servers operate normally.



---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 02:43 PM ----------

So uh... Where's your proof that Blizzard are doing nothing? I mean, if anything, you've got proof that they are doing something: the guy keeps posting from new characters all the time. He wouldn't do that if he didn't need to, which means he's constantly getting banned and is posting on new accounts.

He's obviously not using the account he does the boosting on to advertise, so what else can Blizzard do? If all the conversation happens outside of the game, thus outside of Blizzard's jurisdiction... Then all that's happening (that can be proved) is some guy is grouping with a bunch of random people and being awfully nice about giving them boosts to high RBG rating. If nothing is mentioned in-game, then what can be done?

Blizzard aren't omnipotent or omniscient. They need proof to be able to act. Your reports are helping: they're getting the advertising accounts banned, as proven by the constant stream of new characters. But they can't remove the cause, because there's nothing linking the advertising accounts to the main account (assuming the person behind the accounts is being clever about it).

Insinuating that Blizzard are somehow taking a cut of the profits is hilarious, btw. Undermines any credibility you may have had.

We don't know that for sure. They could just be deleting their toons and create new ones. Their accounts can just remain untouched for all we know.

[coyotenose]

Rofl you got that from this thread?

All I got is ppl losing an interwebz argument and using unsubstantiated statement.

Neither you or that other poster can post "anything" proving their points.

There is no such law applicable.

1. Now hacking accounts: prove it, $5 buy you a license from blizzard;
2. Now evading taxes: paypal has systems to report your earning to your accounting system for tax purpose;
(Which I'm using for my Business)
3. Now advertising on blizzard channel: Its part of Blizzard made laws and enforceable by them and not real life;

So unless you can prove that the guy broke 1 or 2... all your statements are just the usual BS.

What you should get from this thread is that Blizzard has stop trying to make their community cool and are letting their customers behaving like massive anti-social dbags 24/7.

Really?

He was being sarcastic.

[ipaq]

Really?

He was being sarcastic.

How can we know. He didn't use the sarcastica font.

[Deleted]

This is the ticket I have just submitted to Blizzard:


There is this person called "C.... J.....", his skype being "XXXXXXXXXXX" who has been spamming the trade channel of my server for several weeks now selling RBG rating in exchange for cash (real money). He includes his real name and skype address in his ad which he spams on trade channel. I wonder why you guys at Blizzard don't do anything about him. Does he work for you? I have reported his toons several times but nothing ever happens. Do you even care?

First thing that greeted me this morning when I logged in, was this person's ad. This guy is amazing, he is using his REAL NAME (full name and surname) and he is giving out his skype address too. When you talk to him on skype, he asks for payment in British Pounds through Paypal to boost your toons. I have reported this guy's toons several times over the course of several weeks, and yet CJ is ALWAYS there, posting from new toons, which means that Blizzard hasn't taken any legal action against him (or I suspect any other action whatsoever).

Ofc, CJ appears to be a hacker, posting from newly hacked accounts, same way as the goldsellers do.

There is something fishy here. Blizzard is unable or unwilling to touch this guy. I wonder why.

I think the chinese might have a hand in the boosting business.

[Deleted]

Rofl you got that from this thread?
All I got is ppl losing an interwebz argument and using unsubstantiated statement.
So unless you can prove that the guy broke 1 or 2... all your statements are just the usual BS.

So, what you got from this thread is exactly what I got, people saying stupid shit, but you decided to attack me instead of the people actually making the statements? Roger that, "we" might lose this interwebz argument, but you certainly won it.

[Kisho]

We don't know that for sure. They could just be deleting their toons and create new ones. Their accounts can just remain untouched for all we know.

That's exactly my point. You're the one who made the original assertion, so the burden of proof lies on you instead of making wild conspiracy theories.

[coyotenose]

I believe that making use of a third party's commercial enterprise and tools thereof to make money by selling a service which can only be delivered by accessing that third party's commercial enterprise and making use of its tools, is illegal and is against the law since the commercial enterprise is not being compensated and expressly forbids such activities.

I don't know if you remember what happened with that WOTLK private server that charged a premium for access to its servers. Blizzard sued them and managed to close them them down, even though they have let all other "free" private servers operate normally.

No. A movie theater cannot have me arrested for bringing snacks in my purse for my friends, even if they give me money for them. They can only tell me to leave. Blizzard owning the copyrights does not change that. That's the difference between civil and criminal matters. Being able to sue someone and justifiably win does not make their actions criminal.

[Somebodyelse]

So, selling services for an online game through paypal, which are expressly forbidden by the TOS, is not fraud?

Isn't this guy tax evading too? He is getting real money in exchange for -illegal- web services while not paying any tax to the UK government.

So far I 've found fraud and tax evasion. Pretty sure I could find more if I tried.

What do you mean "evidence". Do you want me to post screenshots of the convo I have had with this guy so that you may satisfy yourself that there is ample evidence to prosecute this guy?

From a purely legal standpoint NO, it isn't !