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  1. #601
    Issac Newton: absolute space. The universe is infinite, so there can form endless new things in it -> expansion.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Well, how is it "lost"? How does that work with the law of conversion of energy?
    Actually there is no (need for) global conservation of energy under General Relativity.

    Doesn't change the fact that the original poster's nonsense about tired light is scientifically invalid, but yeah.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-12-19 at 05:21 PM.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Well, how is it "lost"? How does that work with the law of conversion of energy?
    Conservation of energy is actually quite tricky when applied to the universe as a whole. It's not even obvious if one can define the energy of the entire universe.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  4. #604
    Deleted
    As far as my humble mind knows (maybe im wrong) The universe is not infinite but its expanding wit the speed of light. We call it infintie because no object can get to the end of it due to its expansion speed.


    Those that say its infinite, then i say the big bang theory would fall. Infinite is a strong word.
    If its infinite it couldnt have begun.
    It just cant sudently appear and go infinite, or can it? 0.(0)1 to infinite means some kind of growing so it isnt really infinite right?

    But hey.... "whats on the other side!?" mwhahaha.
    Did you also knew that time travel is possible?
    Last edited by mmoc68976ba3b0; 2012-12-19 at 07:27 PM.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    As far as my humble mind knows (maybe im wrong) The universe is not infinite but its expanding wit the speed of light. We call it infintie because no object can get to the end of it due to its expansion speed.
    People call it infinite because they don't understand the meaning of that word.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  6. #606
    You people are misinterpreting, there is no such thing as the edge of the universe.

  7. #607
    Deleted
    in my opinion, space is infinite, the Universe is what fills it and that is whats expanding.

  8. #608
    A lot of you guys have this completely wrong. The universe is expanding because the space itself is expanding. Let me explain. Pretend our galaxy is the city of Los Angeles. If we look out from LA, then we would see the galaxy that is New York moving away from us. We would also see the galaxy that is Tokyo, Japan moving away from us. Like every thing has turned and is running away from us all at the same time. Where this gets tricky is that if we were in New York instead we would see LA moving away from us as well as Tokyo. So basically no matter where you are in the universe, everything is moving away from you. At no point is anything moving toward you. That is the key concept you have to understand.

    Now how can you explain that? Well going back to the Earths city analogy, what is the one thing that could make every city on earth move away from each other simultaneously? The answer isn't that the cities are moving, its that the land between them is getting bigger. Similarly, it isn't the galaxies that are moving (though they do) with regard to the expanding universe, it is the space between them that is expanding forcing every thing apart simultaneously.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    Those that say its infinite, then i say the big bang theory would fall. Infinite is a strong word.
    If its infinite it couldnt have begun.
    It just cant sudently appear and go infinite, or can it? 0.(0)1 to infinite means some kind of growing so it isnt really infinite right?
    Infinity does not actually conflict with the big bang theory, which does not posit that the entire universe was "1". It merely says that the observable universe was like the size of a baseball or something.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Red shift. Why is there no red shift from within the local group, if everything is shrinking? So far your only failure of a retort is to erroneously claim that everything is expanding under the standard model, or to plead ignorance as to why we can measure redshfit from within the local group.
    *Throws word salad*, if you don't understand the concepts there's nothing I can say here that you won't come across as word salad, especially as my knowledge of red-shift clearly isn't that great. Presumable gravity-locked bodies are diminishing in-sync with each other towards the same centre of gravity, cancelling any perceived red-shift in light (note this is only for a diminishing model that matches the standard cosmological model, there are other models that make different assumptions and are awaiting new evidence to differentiate themselves).

    To explain what we actually see using your model, the further away something is, the faster it needs to be shrinking. Therefore Earth is the centre of the universe.
    Your ASCII art fails to take in to account the speed that light travels, if the diminishment is more rapid in the past bodies at a greater distance will show an increased red-shift not only from earth but from all vantage points.

    No you can't. All your posts have done is assert it is without any evidence whatsoever. I've asked you twice before for this and you've failed to provide it both times. Where's your solutions for the Einsteinian field equations that support your model?

    Since you can't provide any, you can't claim that "the same" formulae supports your garbage.
    From the Lorentz manifolds, when l = measure of length in the unprimed frame, l' = measure of length in the primed frame, m = measure of mass in the unprimed frame and m' = measure of mass in the primed frame





    these rearrange to





    which means that



    so

    l m = l' m'

    in other words, from all reference frame the product of the length and mass remains a constant which I shall call a.

    l m = a

    or


  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Equations and Algebra
    You know that mathematical demonstration would be infinitely more enlightening if you had supplied some context to go with it. You didn't even explain how the conclusion that length x mass is constant supports shrinkage.

    Also, Semaphore was asking for solutions to Einstein's Field Equations, which are General Relativity equations. You used equations from Special Relativity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaril
    What we believe is pulling the universe apart, dark matter or energy, is still bound within the effects of gravity and gravity IS the strongest known force in the universe.
    This is why I don't take threads like this seriously, because of rubbish like this.

    Gravity the strongest force in the universe? Have you done physics in high school? I guess you haven't. Allow me to demonstrate a simple experiment: suspending a pin using a simple magnet (such as a refrigerator magnet). The magnet is able to hold the pin against the gravitational pull of the entire Earth. This proves that electromagnetic force is much more powerful than gravity. In fact, the strong and weak forces are more powerful than gravity. You probably don't even know what the weak and strong forces are.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    *Throws word salad*, if you don't understand the concepts
    I understand your concept perfectly. Stop saying I don't understand just because I'm pointing out it's wrong. You can use your idea to explain the statement "the further away something is the faster it is moving away" - but that's it. Unfortunately that is clearly the extent of your (lack of) knowledge on cosmology and hence why you insist that this shrinking nonsense is equally valid as standard cosmology.

    Nonetheless, your crackpot theory does not explain the universe we actually observe. Your inability to come up with a better way to reconcile the difference beyond "word salad" really should be a wake up call for yourself.


    Presumable gravity-locked bodies are diminishing in-sync with each other towards the same centre of gravity
    That's nonsensical. Earth is not the centre of gravity of the Local Group, so why is everything staying exactly where they are (accounting for orbits) from our perspective? Is empty space shrinking along with the matter? What theory have you got that can possibly explain this while asserting that the same is not happening to the space between galaxies?

    The expansion (or contraction) of the space is implied under General Relativity, which has been shown to be essentially valid. Your shrinking idea has no theoretical or mathematical basis.


    Your ASCII art fails to take in to account the speed that light travels, if the diminishment is more rapid in the past bodies at a greater distance will show an increased red-shift not only from earth but from all vantage points.
    So basically you're trying to explain this by saying the expansion (i.e. shrinking) is slowing down. But observational evidence says the expansion is speeding up. How do you explain the Type Ia supernovae luminosity distance then? How are you going to ignore the three pillars of dark energy, which explains the acceleration (SN Ia, flat spacetime, matter only a small part of all density)?

    For crying out loud, Nobel Prizes have been awarded for this stuff (2011: "for the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the Universe through observations of distant supernovae"). Once again you are ignoring all the detailed observations scientists have made over the years in order to pretend your hypothesis has any real standing. Please try to understand why standard cosmology is the way it is, before you attempt to argue some ill-conceived idea is equally valid.

    It is not.


    From the Lorentz manifolds, when l = measure of length in the unprimed frame, l' = measure of length in the primed frame, m = measure of mass in the unprimed frame and m' = measure of mass in the primed frame
    Garnier Fructis addressed this.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-12-23 at 05:40 AM.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, it's a crackpot idea subscribed to by people who refuses to understand why standard cosmology is the way it is.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 05:57 PM ----------


    The "tired light" hypothesis is completely unsupported by observational evidence and is nothing more than yet another example of crackpot pseudoscience.
    You are a crackpot because you dismiss multiple experimental verifications and confirmations on two continents.

    santilli-foundation.org/docs/IRS-confirmations-212.pdf

    It is evident that you are a fanatic who opposes Santilli because he has broadened Einstein's theories and you are solely interested in maintaining the status quo.

    Mankind would still be in the caves if all humans were like you.

    I ask serious visitors to inspect Santilli's curriculum.

    world-lecture-series.org/santilli-cv

    Compare the qualifications of Prof. Santilli with the rotten shill in this thread.

    You knock down Santilli because these experiments disproves the validity of Einstein's theories within physical media. All the while you hail brothers, such as Steven Weinberg and his accomplices, who like you have encouraged the wasting of tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money to pursue God's particles, the extremely far fetched big bang, etc.

    Because of this and other schemes against mankind, the scientific infamy is sealed in history for you, your brothers, and your group.

    It is so evident that you have no sense of dignity, no morals, and no human values other than for yourself and your people.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    It is evident that you are a fanatic who opposes Santilli
    So the physics community at large are fanatics? This is the guy who says his papers get rejected because of some global conspiracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    wasting of tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money to pursue God's particles
    You mean that thing that they found?
    Last edited by Garnier Fructis; 2013-01-02 at 09:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    multiple experimental verifications and confirmations on two continents.
    I'm pretty sure you're not actually describing reality here.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    He has complained that papers he has submitted to peer-reviewed American Physical Society journals were rejected because they were controlled by a group of Jewish physicists led by Steven Weinberg.[23]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruggero_Santilli

    Sounds like a crackpot to me... and that auBerg person sure didn't hold back on the ad hominem attacks & conspiracy theorizing.
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2013-01-02 at 09:26 PM.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  18. #618
    My brain keeps trying to substitute "Cthulhu" for "Santilli" when reading that god awful post.

    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You knock down Santilli because these experiments disproves the validity of Einstein's theories within physical media.
    santilli-foundation.org/docs/IRS-confirmations-212.pdf
    You mean these imaginary experiments that don't actually exist, from your 404'd links? Ruggero Santilli knocked himself down by becoming a widely recognised crazy nutjob.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    You mean that thing that they found?
    Hehe, this part made me want to giggle. He attacks legitimate, ground breaking scientific pursuits as "wasting taxpayer money"... even as he lamented that "Mankind would still be in the caves if all humans were like you." Talk about irony.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2013-01-02 at 09:37 PM.

  19. #619
    The concept of the universe being infinite was proposed by the newtonian view which proposed that the universe was infinite and uniform. However, this has been disproven* and now considers an expanding model of the universe.
    You're confusing two different theories.

  20. #620
    Epic! Sayl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    You mean these imaginary experiments that don't actually exist, from your 404'd links? Ruggero Santilli knocked himself down by becoming a widely recognised crazy nutjob.
    You know what's really funny (or perhaps creepy)? From the language auBerg used in his post, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's actually Santilli himself. It's a dead ringer for the same crackpot rants he's posted elsewhere. I've seen it happen on another forum too.

    < cue spooky Theremin music >
    Last edited by Sayl; 2013-01-02 at 10:31 PM.

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