The Three Extremes: Communism, Capitalism or Fascism?

[Deleted]

I'm curious as to what you think "extreme" capitalism is.

Anarcho-capitalism.

[Xeones]

I'm curious as to what you think "extreme" capitalism is.

I think most of the people choosing it this thread are only thinking of our form of capitalism with saftey regulations, guarenteed wages and the like.

Realistically unregulated capitalism would basically be feudalism where a few own everything and the rest wallow in the dirt.

[Dezerte]

Communism, because I would have a place in this society and working for the greater good of all.
Capitalism is working for yourself only, and I'd also likely be a criminal in such a society.

So yeah.

[RicardoZ]

I think most of the people choosing it this thread are only thinking of our form of capitalism with saftey regulations, guarenteed wages and the like.

Realistically unregulated capitalism would basically be feudalism where a few own everything and the rest wallow in the dirt.

I agree with that, but the balance needs to be more in favor of the free market and individual liberty than government regulation. (I put that reply there to answer about 5 others at once).

[Xeones]

I agree with that, but the balance needs to be more in favor of the free market and individual liberty than government regulation. (I put that reply there to answer about 5 others at once).

Eh? The thread is about extreme forms of government. In this case extreme capitalism would be a total lack of regulation.

[Gheld]

Between "capitalism", "fascism", "i am 12 and wut is this" and "I'm an unemployed art history student and wut is this" I would have to go with capitalism.

[Shiny212]

I'm not sure if you can classify capitalism as a political system..

[Gheld]

I'm not sure if you can classify capitalism as a political system..

You can't. Capitalism and Communism are opposite extremes of economic systems.
Fascism and Anarchy are opposite extremes of political systems.

Fascism by its very nature precludes capitalism, and anarchy by its very nature precludes communism.

So this whole question is bad. So you should answer it badly.

[RicardoZ]

Eh? The thread is about extreme forms of government. In this case extreme capitalism would be a total lack of regulation.

Alright, well then if I have to choose one then I'll go with extreme capitalism. I know that I'm willing to put in the hard work and responsible saving/planning that it would take to become a feudal lord. :P

[Deleted]

Fascism is just totalitarian Capitalism, the communism was never tried, and no Stalin, Mao were very far from communism. Communism isnt genocide on your own nation, absolute control over population and industry, the idea of communism was only raped in human history by ppl who I already mentioned.

Not revolution but evolution will eventually lead human kind to communism. Capitalism is at its peak now, destroying itself with monstrous corruption and greed ---> so called "debt crisis". Imho it is not fair that 1% of population controls over 80% of global wealth, it is just modern slavery. When the people (99%) realise that, the age of slavery (capitalism) will be over.

[Wells]

Alright, well then if I have to choose one then I'll go with extreme capitalism. I know that I'm willing to put in the hard work and responsible saving/planning that it would take to become a feudal lord. :P

Man if you think it was hard work or saving that made you a feudal lord back in the day you're in for a rude awakening should the situation arise again.

[RicardoZ]

Man if you think it was hard work or saving that made you a feudal lord back in the day you're in for a rude awakening should the situation arise again.

Well that was an analogy somebody had brought up earlier in the thread. If it were quoted in context the sarcasm would have been obvious.

[Crashdummy]

None, all three suck. A combination of Capitalism and Communism.

[Gheld]

Fascism is just totalitarian Capitalism, the communism was never tried, and no Stalin, Mao were very far from communism. Communism isnt genocide on your own nation, absolute control over population and industry, the idea of communism was only raped in human history by ppl who I already mentioned.

Not revolution but evolution will eventually lead human kind to communism. Capitalism is at its peak now, destroying itself with monstrous corruption and greed ---> so called "debt crisis". Imho it is not fair that 1% of population controls over 80% of global wealth, it is just modern slavery. When the people (99%) realise that, the age of slavery (capitalism) will be over.

To take one from the commie playbook...

"But that's not REAL capitalism."

Real capitalism is based on the Native American system of trade, which was conducted on an individual to individual basis with trade values being at the mutual discretion of the parties involved and the band council would only intervene as necessary to settle allegations of fraud.

[sandmoth12]

Actually those three are not extremes. There are only 2 real political and social extremes. One is totalitarianism which is complete government control over everything, and the other end of the spectrum is anarchy in which government has no control at all.

[Crashdummy]

Communism and fascism are the same thing. Mostly. At any rate, this isn't a triangle of extremes, it's a bar.

No its not. Fascism believes in private property, Communism doesnt. Both are authoritarian, but they are really far away from being the same.

[RicardoZ]

Actually those three are not extremes. There are only 2 real political and social extremes. One is totalitarianism which is complete government control over everything, and the other end of the spectrum is anarchy in which government has no control at all.

Anarchy on an economic level though isn't really the same thing. Most of the people you see running around spray painting the A logo all over town and fighting with the police are actually communists, they just don't believe in state-run communism, they think it should be like a collective effort on the part of all members of society to keep each other afloat by pooling all of their resources among themselves by mutual agreement, with no overseeing body to enforce or enact law.

Works great if you're a group of 5 friends following Phish around in a van all summer, but if you're an industrious person with ideas and desire to create and progress then not so much.

[AbalDarkwind]

Then it's hardly the company's fault then, is it? This is where that pesky word most men dread (George Bernard Shaw was an avowed Marxist, by the way) "responsibility" comes in.

I can be the most responsible person on Earth, but if I don't own capital, am being actively oppressed by corporate intrests, and everyone around me would rather live in oppression than "rock the boat", I'm kind of screwed, wouldn't you say?

Ermm...no. The main factors in a market economy as far as success goes are having in-demand skills, working hard, and going the extra mile.

Let me tell you something about myself. I was born into an extremely poor family in one of Boston's filthiest ghettos. My parents didn't have enough to send me to college or anything.

But I worked hard and put myself through community college and started up a DJ business. Eventually I parlayed that into a career in radio. My show's online stream got kind of popular and I got an offer to move to Chile and work for a promotions company here. When I got here, the company flopped and I was stranded with no money. I got a job teaching English. I learned about the business and how it works. Then I started up my own institute and made a killing. My partner screwed me out of all my profits and went back to the US. I got a job teaching at another institute and have since been married and support 2 kids.

Now, if what you said is true, then I should have been down and out long ago, but I work hard and refuse to give up, that's why I am successful. If it were just luck or sweet-talk and I had that kind of attitude, I would have just become another welfare case long ago and sunk into nothingness.

Let me begin by pointing out that you are attempting to make an argument using an anecdote. Personal experience is never a good enough example.

But, for the sake of this discussion, I'll humor you by using your anecdote.

First of all, you did not grow up in a laissez faire capatlisitc economy. You grew up in a mixed economy. For example, although your parents did not have enough money to send you to college, I would assume that you received a basic education from the public school system. In a laissez faire economy, you would not have gotten that education because all schools, from kindergarten to college, would be for-profit. You never would have received an education. Secondly, you likely would have either been a) recruited as a child laborer by a big company with absolutely no laws protecting you from poor work conditions with a good chance of you not making it to adulthood or b) would have been left in poverty with absolutely no possibility of getting out because you wouldn't have even been able to perform basic arithmetic or been able to read a language. If you were able to self-teach yourself these things, you still would not have a degree from expensive private schools and would only be noticed by corporations for your labor potential rather than your self-taught education.

Laissez faire captialism, much like communism, is not a bad idea on paper. Until you add in the nature of human beings and their desire for power over others. In Communism, the tool for power is Government. In Captialism, the tool for power is Capital. Either way, if you don't get in on the ground floor, you are at the whim of those who grabbed power first.

To the OP: I would live as far away from people as possible, and attempt to live off the land. All three of those options, from the extreme point of view, are awful.

[Dragore]

Communism = everyone gets the same thing

Capitalism = you work for your own shit

Fascism = everything for the state

None are perfect but I'll go with Capitalism because I like to work hard and I should get paid for that.

[Crashdummy]

Ermm...no. The main factors in a market economy as far as success goes are having in-demand skills, working hard, and going the extra mile.

Let me tell you something about myself. I was born into an extremely poor family in one of Boston's filthiest ghettos. My parents didn't have enough to send me to college or anything.

But I worked hard and put myself through community college and started up a DJ business. Eventually I parlayed that into a career in radio. My show's online stream got kind of popular and I got an offer to move to Chile and work for a promotions company here. When I got here, the company flopped and I was stranded with no money. I got a job teaching English. I learned about the business and how it works. Then I started up my own institute and made a killing. My partner screwed me out of all my profits and went back to the US. I got a job teaching at another institute and have since been married and support 2 kids.

Now, if what you said is true, then I should have been down and out long ago, but I work hard and refuse to give up, that's why I am successful. If it were just luck or sweet-talk and I had that kind of attitude, I would have just become another welfare case long ago and sunk into nothingness.

And many other people work hard and can never climb in the social stair. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, the power in a completely unregulated market lies in those with more money. Its the law of the jungle, where lions do what they want and bambies get to run or be food.

Go tell how good capitalism is to the 8 year old kids working on crop fields helping their father to get enough food just to feed themselves.

---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 02:16 PM ----------

I agree with that, but the balance needs to be more in favor of the free market and individual liberty than government regulation. (I put that reply there to answer about 5 others at once).

Most people, while not being controlled, do bad things. The balance needs to be in favor or regulation or things get out of control. Things are too little regulated everywhere and thats how we are so bad.

I agree though that individual liberty (following certain rules of course) should be in place.