Patriotism and the Nation-State

[Kasierith]

I'm a fairly patriotic person. I'm also pretty sure that the OP would consider me a bleeding heart liberal...

I see nothing wrong with patriotism taken with enough doses of reason. Nationstate is a different topic however. A nation is a largely imaginary construct to begin with.

I'm incredibly patriotic, personally.. I absolutely love my country, and so, so many aspects of it. That said, I have never had any qualms about pointing out its errors, even when those errors originate from the party I associate with.

[Deleted]

Loving your country is one thing.

Being blind and hating the government you're supposed to be part of is just silly.

[Elegiac]

Loving your country is one thing.

Being blind and hating the government you're supposed to be part of is just silly.

Government hating is fashionable in the US, unfortunately.

And despite that, the re-election rate for representatives is around 90% and above 60% for Senators.

[Kasierith]

Government hating is fashionable in the US, unfortunately.

And despite that, the re-election rate for representatives is around 90% and above 60% for Senators.

Wasn't the approval rate for the US Congress below 20% at one point?

[Deleted]

Government hating is fashionable in the US, unfortunately.

And despite that, the re-election rate for representatives is around 90% and above 60% for Senators.

This is something I never got, the Government is elected, it's supposed to be part of your doing these people are in place.

Isn't it the publics fault they forced themselves into a two part system with corrupt officials? You keep voting them in!

[Elegiac]

Wasn't the approval rate for the US Congress below 20% at one point?

It has never been above 50% in the history of the United States. Americans hate Congress, but love their representatives. Curious paradox, but an understandable one.

The thing you must understand is that practically every 'problem' with the American government is systemic, not due to the faults of politicians or interest groups.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 11:55 AM ----------

This is something I never got, the Government is elected, it's supposed to be part of your doing these people are in place.

Isn't it the publics fault they forced themselves into a two part system with corrupt officials? You keep voting them in!

Nope. As I said, it's a systemic issue; the bipartisan system exists because the Founders created a structure that necessitates it.

[Garnier Fructis]

This is something I never got, the Government is elected, it's supposed to be part of your doing these people are in place.

Isn't it the publics fault they forced themselves into a two part system with corrupt officials? You keep voting them in!

Because most people don't even do basic research, and vote based on pamphlets and television ads.

[Laize]

Government hating is fashionable in the US, unfortunately.

And despite that, the re-election rate for representatives is around 90% and above 60% for Senators.

Fenno's Paradox. You just can't explain it.

The fact remains that there are plenty of reasons to hate big government. If you really need them explained, then you weren't paying attention to the reasons the country was founded to begin with.

[semaphore]

I'm incredibly patriotic, personally.. I absolutely love my country, and so, so many aspects of it. That said, I have never had any qualms about pointing out its errors, even when those errors originate from the party I associate with.

Yeah, I agree with this, and what The Fiend (gasp) says. There's nothing wrong with the fundamental concept of loving your country, the problem was always when some pervert it into blind, misguided support for everything about their country. That's not true patriotism IMHO.

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

[Elegiac]

Fenno's Paradox. You just can't explain it.

The fact remains that there are plenty of reasons to hate big government. If you really need them explained, then you weren't paying attention to the reasons the country was founded to begin with.

Perhaps I disagree with some of the reasons. I find Oriental-style governments are generally more effective at crisis resolution.

[Deleted]

Because most people don't even do basic research, and vote based on pamphlets and television ads.

Then truly I feel sorry for Americans.

[Cybran]

You don't preserve your identity under five centuries of Muslim opression with Liberal ideals. I love my Nation and would die for it. Just like so many before me did.

[Stir]

The poll is absolutely dreadfully awful, biased, and bizarrely bad. It speaks of nothing more than 'IF YOU'RE NOT FOR US YOU'RE AGAINST US HURR DURR!'
Not surprisingly, I didn't answer.

I'm not a patriot. I think patriotism is alarmingly stupid. Rather than revering a bloody flag, you might first want to sort out the issues that people are experiencing... And even then, worshiping some meaningless lines on a map doesn't make one more reliable.

Here's what: A country is nothing more than lines on a map that tell us who should be able to live where, and what rules should apply to whom, where, and when. That's it. That's all it is. It's us vs. them, it's war, it's hate crimes. It's possessive, it's greedy, it's xenophobic.

That being said, I don't actually oppose my country or the EU either, unless it is on topics I severely disagree with. I don't hate these countries; I merely think people could do a better job by serving the interests of the populace rather than meaningless digits.

[Elegiac]

You don't preserve your identity under five centuries of Muslim opression with Liberal ideals. I love my Nation and would die for it. Just like so many before me did.

Define 'liberal'.

[Deleted]

The fact remains that there are plenty of reasons to hate big government. If you really need them explained, then you weren't paying attention to the reasons the country was founded to begin with.

The way I Have seen, people hate the American government because it "Meddles and takes their money".

Right now I'd consider that rather smart, as most of it is spent on Military.

How would people feel about paying the same taxes to help Medical and educational care instead?

[semaphore]

Is it bad that I don't feel any particular loyalty to one country over another, just Western Civilization in general?

That seems to be rational tbh. I strongly support western civilisation too. Can't shake some feelings of loyalty though.

But on that note biased OP doesn't include dual citizenships!

[Elegiac]

That seems to be rational tbh. I strongly support western civilisation too. Can't shake some feelings of loyalty though.

But on that note biased OP doesn't include dual citizenships!

I have three citizenships. XD

[Garnier Fructis]

Then truly I feel sorry for Americans.

They use this to their advantage; it's a dirty tactic. Once in my high school, they handed out fliers telling us why we should vote YES on a bond measure, and listed all the things our school would get. Out of the 5 or so "improvements" my school would get, we either already had them or were in the process of acquiring them.

Basically, a whole list of shit we didn't need. I pointed this out and some of my dumb-ass classmates asked me why I was opposed to education. Enough time has passed since then that these people are voting now. So are their parents. God help us all.

[Rukentuts]

Wasn't the approval rate for the US Congress below 20% at one point?

It was like 12% iirc.

[Deleted]

You don't preserve your identity under five centuries of Muslim opression with Liberal ideals. I love my Nation and would die for it. Just like so many before me did.

Wait... who is oppressing who now? Only country to downright Opress Islam was India... and Israel until a party switch is changed.