Unholy PvE in 5.2

[SSHA778]

With 5.2, unholy's stat priority will haste>=crit>mastery. Here is the source with the buildings of the profile discussed here.

A 1% damage increase? Something isn't right here. It should be around 4%.

[Nangz]

A 1% damage increase? Something isn't right here. It should be around 4%.

Using the simulationcraft profile for unholy currently. http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

How do you figure? Napkin math with 30% mastery ( something close to what bis gear would have i'd guess since my 493 is 24%) on gargoyles 3.2% ( taken from simcraft) would let it scale 30% more up to 4%. 1% increase. There is a small dps increase on single target because you only have to plague strike on pull instead of ps+it. So you would gain half a festering strike minus an icy touch. Which is about 30k damage once in the fight so its nearly negligible. In addition the cost reduction gives us a total of 6 more death coils from the sim.

117 death coils were cast for a total of 14.1%, add 6 more would add ~.7% to that.

So the total would be between 1-2%.

[SSHA778]

How do you figure? Napkin math with 30% mastery ( something close to what bis gear would have i'd guess since my 493 is 24%) on gargoyles 3.2% ( taken from simcraft) would let it scale 30% more up to 4%. 1% increase. There is a small dps increase on single target because you only have to plague strike on pull instead of ps+it. So you would gain half a festering strike minus an icy touch. Which is about 30k damage once in the fight so its nearly negligible. In addition the cost reduction gives us a total of 6 more death coils from the sim.

Should be around 4k DPS. I remembered that SimulationCraft is using Army of the Dead, so that will throw off the 4% figure I gave you.

Gargoyle's damage increases from the mastery (+1.7k), cost reduction frees up Death Coils (+0.84k), and more Death Coils results in more SS's (0.59k) and increases DT uptime (+24s of DT, but at a 67% uptime already, it would probably be around another 10 seconds on average in a sim).

[r3d3mpt10n]

I have a question regarding talents for an Unholy DK... obviously, with PS applying both diseass come the patch, unless it changes..

What would the better level 56 talent be?

Roiling Blood will be great for AoE encounters no doubt, due to use actually using Blood Boil as part of the AoE rotation, but after looking at Noxxic, it mentions that currently, Unholy Blight should be used...

Also... if Roiling Blood is used for its aoe capability, would the first Blood Boil using that get the damage increase of the diseases? I i figure it probably wouldn't but its worth asking as im unsure of it myself.

[Huangar]

Hey,

At 56 I'd go with roiling blood, as, if i remember correctly, Blood boil is still hugely op at that level outdamaging everything(if they've fixed it than ignore this).

Well the one target, which you put your diseases on at the start would, but the rest wouldn't. First they get bloodboil damage and then pestilence will trigger.

[Saybel]

I have a question regarding talents for an Unholy DK... obviously, with PS applying both diseass come the patch, unless it changes..

What would the better level 56 talent be?

Roiling Blood will be great for AoE encounters no doubt, due to use actually using Blood Boil as part of the AoE rotation, but after looking at Noxxic, it mentions that currently, Unholy Blight should be used...

Also... if Roiling Blood is used for its aoe capability, would the first Blood Boil using that get the damage increase of the diseases? I i figure it probably wouldn't but its worth asking as im unsure of it myself.

Unholy Blight is pretty lackluster for AoE regardless, you should definitely take Roiling Blood, even moreso after the patch, it saves alot of runes which would of been used for pestilence over time.

[r3d3mpt10n]

Thats what i was thinking aswell, but i just wanted clarification... i was just a bit unsure why Noxxic would state that UB is better..

Also, in reply to Huangar, sorry, i forgot to mention in my post before that i am currently 90

As far as i can tell though Roiling Blood is better due to Blood Boil being part of the AoE rotation, but the only advantage Unholy Blight has is that, due to no cost, you dont lose that second ramp up of the diseases on AoE targets.

I kinda figure that also due to its cooldown its pretty pants, as Roiling Blood will allow you to spread to new adds which come into the AoE pack.

Either way, I'm looking forward to going back to Unholy now that i have finally got my DK to 90, and these changes were things that could only have made Unholy better in Cata.

[Deleted]

Unholy Blight is pretty lackluster for AoE regardless, you should definitely take Roiling Blood, even moreso after the patch, it saves alot of runes which would of been used for pestilence over time.

Personal preference really... For AoE trash packs then there's little difference between UB and RB for unholy... Problem with Rolling blood is it's basically useless on single target fights, at least UB can act as a free outbreak, at any rate Plague Leech is the best dps talent for most boss fights (even moreso come 5.2)

[r3d3mpt10n]

see... UB shouldnt be useable unless you change mobs less than every Minute.. since FS will keep your diseases up for you..

My general concern was only really AoE, and while UB may save a second diseasing everything for you, RB just activates during your rotation.

[Schizoide]

see... UB shouldnt be useable unless you change mobs less than every Minute.. since FS will keep your diseases up for you..

In a patchwerk encounter, sure. In actual raid encounters there's tons of target-switching and movement where your diseases can fall off. UB is worth an unholy rune in those occasions. RB isn't worth anything outside of AE, where it's worth one blood rune.

[Huangar]

Did anyone run the new simcraft version on ptr mode? For me in my current gear it shows a 1533dps increase which is about a 2.2% for me. Gargoyle damage going up from 3% to 4.5%. Curious about which numbers you guys are seeing. (all this on helter skelter mode, with me acting like i'm a good player)

[Saybel]

Personal preference really... For AoE trash packs then there's little difference between UB and RB for unholy... Problem with Rolling blood is it's basically useless on single target fights, at least UB can act as a free outbreak, at any rate Plague Leech is the best dps talent for most boss fights (even moreso come 5.2)

It's noticable if you do something like Wind Lord Mel'jarak where you spend a lot of time AoEing, as well as simplifying the rotation (it theoretically makes your first set of diseases applied via outbreak infinite with no rune cost, as you would be consuming the runes with BB anyway), it saves you a couple of runes (3-4 or so) per minute that you could use on Blood Boil, whilst Unholy blight saves you 3 runes every 1.5 min, and 2 after the patch.

I find the cases where my diseases run out before outbreak this tier very small, Lei Shi and Elegon mainly, though every time I've done Elegon recently I've had symbiosis which fixed the issue, so ya, Plague Leech forwards, still in love with RB for snap AoE/dungeons/large scale AoE though.

In a patchwerk encounter, sure. In actual raid encounters there's tons of target-switching and movement where your diseases can fall off. UB is worth an unholy rune in those occasions. RB isn't worth anything outside of AE, where it's worth one blood rune.

There's also a lot of bosses this tier where you can cleave things with your diseases (not going to name specific fights because it's literally half of them), and RB adds some extra damage in these cases, so it has it's uses, ideally you should be changing talents on a per-boss-basis

[Maelstrom51]

For single target plague leech > unholy blight > rolling blood.

Unholy blight is better than rolling blood because it will reapply your diseases with the 15% strength from Fallen Crusader, as well as any strength procs you have, while still under the prepot (festering strike only extends the duration of current diseases, they won't reroll with each cast, meaning that unholy blight diseases will hit a bit harder than the opening than an outbreak out of melee range).

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 12:35 AM ----------

Did anyone run the new simcraft version on ptr mode? For me in my current gear it shows a 1533dps increase which is about a 2.2% for me. Gargoyle damage going up from 3% to 4.5%. Curious about which numbers you guys are seeing. (all this on helter skelter mode, with me acting like i'm a good player)

This patch isn't supposed to wildly increase Unholy's dps, as it isn't that far behind. Its mostly a quality of life patch, and a very good one at that.

[matthias9742]

This patch isn't supposed to wildly increase Unholy's dps, as it isn't that far behind. Its mostly a quality of life patch, and a very good one at that.

The only thing UH needs now is better weapon damage scaling and the spec will be perfect.
Even with that I will probably switch to UH in 5.2 from DW frost as I never did like the previous disease micro-management but always enjoyed it thematically more than frost just the numbers and the ugly rotation kept me away.

[Razorice]

Haven't been that much active on wow lately, however these few changes do seem very interesting for Unholy. Can't wait to start playing again and get back to Epicness of Unholy!

[Deleted]

The only thing UH needs now is better weapon damage scaling and the spec will be perfect.
Even with that I will probably switch to UH in 5.2 from DW frost as I never did like the previous disease micro-management but always enjoyed it thematically more than frost just the numbers and the ugly rotation kept me away.

This... Bringing back blood caked blade or buffing scourge strike would be a win, still feel like unholy should be the "patchwerk king" with frost winning on any cleave/target switching type scenario.

[Deleted]

Haven't been that much active on wow lately, however these few changes do seem very interesting for Unholy. Can't wait to start playing again and get back to Epicness of Unholy!

Unholy isnt bad at all atm either, people just make it out to be.

[Schizoide]

Unholy is terrible in 5.1. It does less (slightly less, but still) single-target damage than frost, but has none of frost's many, many mechanical advantages. Unholy's only real plus is the strong execute.

That will change somewhat in 5.2. The small DPS buff will bring it equal to frost on single targets, and the faster rampup on bosses and easier target switches will help on non-patchwerk fights (ie, all of them). It still lacks frost's mobility and ranged damage, and AE still has rampup and cannibalizes single-target damage, so it won't match frost, but it'll be a more reasonable choice than it is now. So that's an improvement.

[Deleted]

Unholy is terrible in 5.1. It does less (slightly less, but still) single-target damage than frost, but has none of frost's many, many mechanical advantages. Unholy's only real plus is the strong execute.

That will change somewhat in 5.2. The small DPS buff will bring it equal to frost on single targets, and the faster rampup on bosses and easier target switches will help on non-patchwerk fights (ie, all of them). It still lacks frost's mobility and ranged damage, and AE still has rampup and cannibalizes single-target damage, so it won't match frost, but it'll be a more reasonable choice than it is now. So that's an improvement.

If you think Unholy is terrible atm its because you're terrible at it.
Its nowhere near terrible.

[Deleted]

If you think Unholy is terrible atm its because you're terrible at it.
Its nowhere near terrible.

His comment was a bit harsh, "terrible" isn't quite right... But it is worse, even if it's only by 2% on single target encounters (number pulled out of my arse) and because of most fight's mechanics + the way unholy works it's just not as good on most of them. You could be the best unholy player in the world and it's just wouldn't be equal damage on the majority of fights.

I love unholy, I like to think I was OK at it too but it just falls short on a lot of encounters and I don't see 5.2 rectifying that. If unholy became the single-target, no switching/cleave king then frost would still have it's place as the bursty, insta DPS, cleave switching spec but at least unholy would have a competitive niche.

Either way, any change is good change and I'm hoping for more