2012 MLB Winter Meetings and Offseason

[koodledrum]

I'm pretty sure they always had the "spark" thing on their uni's after the redesign anyway (gotta admit, I threw up in my mouth a little when I remembered that technicolour abomination!) just a redesign of the cap more than anything else surely?

[conscript]

just a redesign of the cap more than anything else surely?

Ya, plus they are just like their batting practice hates, but god what a stupid marketing idea. I will never understand the constant reworking of that team logo. I mean I can understand dropping Devil in this heavy Christian country (although seems to be working out just fine for Duke or other school and teams). Why not switch it up to Manta Rays or something. Manta Rays are bad ass. Dropping it to the ambiguous Rays and then confusing it even more from there by whatever logos they keep using is just dumb.

[koodledrum]

Lets be honest, it's not really gonna make much of a difference down in St. Pete with those bazillions of fans at the trop!

Hideki Matsui announcing his retirement today, classy player who clubbed a MASSIVE homer at Yankee Stadium against the Mets in 2009 during a game I was at which near kicked off a riot that night (beaten only by the moment Luis Castillo dropped the ball!) and a guy who could put a charge into a ball without making it look difficult. Struggled last year but a massive player in his day.

[kidsafe]

Lets be honest, it's not really gonna make much of a difference down in St. Pete with those bazillions of fans at the trop!

Hideki Matsui announcing his retirement today, classy player who clubbed a MASSIVE homer at Yankee Stadium against the Mets in 2009 during a game I was at which near kicked off a riot that night (beaten only by the moment Luis Castillo dropped the ball!) and a guy who could put a charge into a ball without making it look difficult. Struggled last year but a massive player in his day.

38 years old, almost 20 year career including his time in Japan. He just doesn't have anything left in his bat or knees, but it was a helluva career. The only real power hitter to have been imported to the MLB from the NPB. There's a few things that jump to mind when I think of him...

1) That spotless white bat...the cleanest in baseball.
2) He never wasted time in the box, never made faces at bad balls/strikes calls or anything.
3) That one time he dove for a ball, shattered his wrist and still made the throw back to the infield.
4) Oh and this: https://vimeo.com/10915122

[koodledrum]

Dunno about the cleanest bat in baseball, I think that still goes to Ichiro even though his is lacquered (it has to, he treats his bats like Gods!) but you're right about never arguing & being all business in the box he also had one of the more striking stances - the bat near straight up and barely moving with a little shuffle of the feet for timing and could STILL get it through the zone enough to crush it. There was a video from last year with the A's where he turned a double play by gunning out a runner at the plate on a textbook throw from left field at the Colliseum, one hop straight to the catcher, not bad considering by that time he was almost exclusively a DH - shame that in the end his knees gave out on him. With the wrist injury as well I don't think you can overlook the fact he actually released a statement saying sorry for getting injured, wouldn't see Arod pulling that, hell you wouldn't even see Jeter doing that but Matsui felt he'd let his teammates down so said sorry for doing so - perhaps a little OTT but dammit that shows exactly what playing the game meant to him.

You know when everyone is almost universal in praise about you that you've done things right & there's few players who get that purely because of the way the world is, but I think Matsui can take pride in the fact that fans, coaches, team mates & opponents have all pretty much shown universal respect for him.

[conscript]

Hall of Fame announcement today. From currently released ballots, it looks like the only guy with even a chance to get in is Biggio although there is a real decent chance no one gets in at all this year.

[koodledrum]

If I was a voter I would be voting the following way.

Biggio - 3000 hits, multiple gold gloves, multiple silver sluggers all while playing for a relatively poor Houston side.

Schilling - Solid dependable pitcher, falls short in terms of wins (only 216) but when you add in 3 world series combined with reasonable ERA he earns his spot! (must admit I'd be voting with my mind on an article of clothing which will go down in history!)

Piazza - leads catchers in most offensive categories & was a legit threat at the plate, not the greatest defensive catcher in the game but ultimately created more runs with the bat than he lost with the glove.

Much as I love the Yankees Bernie doesn't quite make it but just falls short, Donnie Baseball doesn't make it based on lack of longevity & well, we've had "the discussion" numerous times on here as to why I wouldn't be voting for certain other people. It would be nice to see the other Killer B in there but I think his numbers fall a little short - unlike Biggio, Bagwell doesn't have the 3000 hit key to Cooperstown!

BUUUT we all know this is gonna rumble on for a bit, pitchers & catchers report in what, 5 weeks, so I'm guessing we've got 4+ weeks of this being the hot topic in baseball.

[conscript]

If I was a voter I would be voting the following way.

Biggio - 3000 hits, multiple gold gloves, multiple silver sluggers all while playing for a relatively poor Houston side.

Schilling - Solid dependable pitcher, falls short in terms of wins (only 216) but when you add in 3 world series combined with reasonable ERA he earns his spot! (must admit I'd be voting with my mind on an article of clothing which will go down in history!)

Piazza - leads catchers in most offensive categories & was a legit threat at the plate, not the greatest defensive catcher in the game but ultimately created more runs with the bat than he lost with the glove.

Totally agree on all three accounts. Schilling is arguably the best postseason pitcher ever, certainly in the modern era. Its a total joke to keep him out. Same for Piazza. Why would the best hitting catcher EVER not be a first ballot HoFer? The amount of spite and vitriol with the fucking HoF voters is such a joke. They really need to rework the system.

[draynay]

those 3 plus Edgar Martinez & Bagwell would be the guys that would definitely have my vote

[sheffield]

i agree on Biggio and Piazza. i don't agree with you guys on Schilling.. i agree he's a great postseason player.. but that's where it stops.. I say any other year he doesn't get in first ballot.. however, he might this year given the weak class

[buck008]

As a Mets fan, I certainly hope Piazza gets in. Schilling's postseason record is nuts. He has a low 2's ERA. I'm actually not as sold on Biggio. He never had dominating numbers. Never hit for high average, nor for power. He just hung around for a long time, and put up respectable numbers consistently. Good player for sure. Hall of Fame? I don't really buy it.

The baseball writers are just antiquated and way too stuck on tradition. Kinda like baseball in general. I won't touch the steroid issue, because I imagine it's been brought up here before and I don't participate in baseball talk much, mostly because my team is awful and it depresses me to dwell on it. I will say that I think the whole process should be handled differently.

[conscript]

No Hall of Famers for the first time since 1996. Biggio falls 39 votes short.

[koodledrum]

With Biggio it's a lock, there's only four members of the 3,000 hit club not currently in Cooperstown, one of them's playing (Jeter), one of them's a confirmed steroid user (Palmiero), one of them's suspended indefinitely for betting (Rose) & the fourth is Biggio. Say what you like, but unless there's significant doubt of foul play I believe most writers would see 3,000 hits as one of the keys to Cooperstown along with 300 wins, those things just scream out at you "I'm a hall of fame worthy player" - it may have taken Biggio 19 years, but lets be honest, he's not the only guy who didn't do it double time (Cobb 17, Yaz 18, hell Rickey Henderson 22 - although he's in there as much for his legs as 3,000 hits).

The voting system is kinda screwed up though, I'll admit that, but ultimately you can't put it to fan voting otherwise you'd need a whole city for the HoF, can't put it 100% on arbitrary figures because well, say you set it 250 wins for a pitcher, ladies and gentlemen I give you arguably one of the best pitchers between 2000-2009, Roy Halladay. He'll (barring a miracle) finish shy of that number because he was playing for the Blue Jays & facing the Yankees & Red Sox for the majority of his career with alarming regularity.

[conscript]

With Biggio it's a lock, there's only four members of the 3,000 hit club not currently in Cooperstown, one of them's playing (Jeter), one of them's a confirmed steroid user (Palmiero), one of them's suspended indefinitely for betting (Rose) & the fourth is Biggio. Say what you like, but unless there's significant doubt of foul play I believe most writers would see 3,000 hits as one of the keys to Cooperstown along with 300 wins, those things just scream out at you "I'm a hall of fame worthy player" - it may have taken Biggio 19 years, but lets be honest, he's not the only guy who didn't do it double time (Cobb 17, Yaz 18, hell Rickey Henderson 22 - although he's in there as much for his legs as 3,000 hits).

Ya Bigs and probably Bags will both get in eventually. The only reason they didn't get in this year, along with guys like Piazza, is just the writers being dicks about making people wait which absolutely makes no sense at all. Oh well, enjoy your declining attendance numbers and ever growing irrelevancy Cooperstown. I think it was Rovvell who put this up on Twitter, but the Hall of Fame is almost certainly going to see fewer than 300,000 guests again this year for like the 6th year in a row, all declining.

[chadwix]

Baseball writers earned some respect today.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/9906012/rss

Juiced players hitting juiced balls has no place in the hall of fame. Still not happy that dale murphy cant get in, one of the classiest players in the history of the game and a great player.

[draynay]

apparently nobody has a place in the hall of fame, why even have it? what purpose does it serve? why give ballots to people that will just submit them blank? baseball HoF has been broken for awhile

[koodledrum]

Firstly it depends on when those balls were tested & the conditions they were kept in prior to being tested, rubber is after all a substance known for it's elasticity.

Secondly, the writers if they have decided to refrain to elect players because they do not want to vote for "first ballot" players have absolutely no right to be voting, I can understand them making players wait when there's a legitimate gripe (see previous comments on steroid users), however show me where there's any justification for it overall where no legitimate gripe exists?

Another issue I have (although this is simply an observation) - man baseball, football & basketball picked some of the most ass backward places to have their hall of fame buildings! Want to know why Cooperstown has a declining visitor count, look at location, it's so far out the damned way! Hockey has the right idea, slap bang in the middle of Toronto - seriously, I know Cooperstown is synonymous with the baseball HoF but surely (much like football & basketball) there has to be a better location for god sakes!

[draynay]

they're gonna do away with the "fake to 3rd throw to 1st" move for sure this year

all the boos will turn to cheers when its called a balk

[sheffield]

why? it's not like it ever works..

[conscript]

Jesus H Christ, Raf Soriano signed with the Nats. If there is a team I want absolutely zero part of in the NL this year it is the Nats. Barring injury that is going to be one of the most frightening pitching rosters since like the 90s Braves.