No flying 5.2

[Stormcall]

Even Blizzard said flying mounts were a failure, so stop saying the issues stem from the players oO Just because you are lazy and want to feel safe 24/7 in the world of WARcraft, doesnt mean everyone likes it.

Yeah, cause riding around is JUST SO MUCH FUN! I play on a PvE server, so I don't need a flying mount to feel "safe"(being a blood DK, it wouldn't matter much anyway), all restricting them does is make dailies fucking TAKE LONGER. It's not like mobs are a fucking threat to me...

[Mad_Murdock]

We DID "struggle" to 90.

Well.. no. Actually we didn't. There is N O T H I N G dangerous in WoW outside of Instances and PvP. That leaves ummm... NOTHING™ on a PvE Server.
Questmobs cannot kill you. It's just not possible as long as you have 2 functioning brain cells dedicated to WoW.
Thus, your entire argumentative structure is void.
.

OH come on now, you'll just say we're all terribads. But there are places you can get yourself killed. Especially playing an alt. I know several (myself included) who put off going to Twolong until they are into 89. The early mobs are packed in close enough and it's not that hard to get 3-5 pulled on you. Maybe on a high pop server where there is always 3-4 people there it's not that packed. Hitting Dread waste the second you hit 89 can be painful as well, lots of areas with mobs packed in

If you can level 85-90 and never come close to dying, hats off to you.

[Granyala]

If you can level 85-90 and never come close to dying, hats off to you.

I can. But only If I don't watch CSI while questing.

Seriously I'm leveling my little huntress right now. I was in Outland till Level 78 and immediately skipped northrend. I only quested Vashir and was done with Cata. Basically she is wearing the green starter gear the panda sells you in baah don't know the English name. Village in the middle of Jade forest.

I usually pull 3-5 mobs and just destroy them. There is 0 snip nada challenge, and I'm positive that won't change in Towlong or Dread. I'm 87 now, and I'll have to start Kun'lai. Meh... don't like that one, but I think you can't accept quests in Towlong until 88...

Back in the day, there were mean elites patrolling the areas that nearly oneshotted you. THATS when the world felt dangerous. Nowadays, I need entertainment next to questing to not fall asleep.

[The Small Hours]

Maybe its not flying thats should be removed from the game, maybe its heirloom gear and recruit-a-friend levelling bonus's etc.

[Airwaves]

Well glad I have stealth to skip mobs. As for pvp I don't care that they have not added in flyers for a daily zone. Only thing that worries me is realms where one side is outnumbered 10 to 1. I do hope they have a buff for the side that is out numbered.

[Grocalis]

Thunder Isle is basically the new Molten Front, mixed with some Tol Barad, so obviously it was not going to allow flying. This does not mean they are trying to slowly remove flying, that's just silly, but they do want to give us better reasons to sometimes pull out those ground mounts. This is why I have my Argent Charger on my bars right next to my Azure Serpent, for times like this.

[Deleted]

I'm fine with having no fly areas once in a while. But you can fly in Krasarang, and there's still world PVP going on there, so I'm not sure if this will actually make a big difference.

[DeadmanWalking]

I understand not having flying for leveling and for this 5.2 zone. Removing them from the game entirely? Hell no. If you had to ground mount to every where in pandaria it would be a pain in the ass because there is one gate in the north of Vale of eternal blossoms and then you would have to climb the spine wall (which has faction guards that turn on your pvp flag) or down the lizzard canal tunnel, down the misty mountain trail and into 4 winds to get anywheres, no thank you. I want to get to my farm quickly from 7 star temple, I dont want to sped 20 minutes doing it. I don't want to spend 30 minutes getting to the Valor quartermaster in Ninzao temple to spend my valor.

If your reasoning is enjoying the scenery then you are full of it. I can see more scenery in places where you can't get a ground mount on my flying mount, and I fly close to the ground to enjoy the scenery anyways.

If your reasoning is RP then you are full of it. No one is going to pull up along side of you and ask for grey poupon. They are just going to fly by you without noticing you anyways.

If you don't like flying for PVE reasons then don't use your flying mount when you do PVE content. You think it makes the game more fun to not fly then don't fly, make your game more fun. I'll do PVE the way I want to and I will have fun. I don't tell you how to enjoy your content.

[Granyala]

I'm fine with having no fly areas once in a while. But you can fly in Krasarang, and there's still world PVP going on there, so I'm not sure if this will actually make a big difference.

I think the poster that stated "progression doesn't make sense with flying mounts" is spot on. Maybe they will unlock more of the isle over time. Flying would ruin that.

[Deleted]

Every time this topic comes up I wait for someone to give a cogent argument explaining how flying mounts are "ruining the game". I'm still waiting.

Maybe some people like daze?

[Wildtree]

BWAHAHAHAHA
....
OMG... that's so hilarious... do you know how often I have wiped in BC, because the fucking random couldn't handle his CC spells properly or because morons went "Yo AoE dawg" when there was a CC around?

BTW the reason why peeps after TBC had less an affinity for CC has NOTHING to do with flying mounts. It's that WotLKs instances were an AoE snoozefest that let them unlearn everything. Seriously, we didn't even use any form of CC in Naxxramas 80. I know I was excited about mind sear back then. Boy I HATED that spell after Naxx, because it was pretty much the only spell I used during the hours of trash in that raid.





Seriously.. I can't believe you just wrote that. We are talking about OUTDOOR QUESTING MOBS here... they fall over when your character lets out a cough. Ooh I added.. wayne, I just kill both of you.. or 5... doesn't matter.

Please, for the love of God, don't make such statements. People who didn't experience WoW back then might believe you.

How about trying to be a little bit more mature? you act like a little spoiled kid now.
And if you cannot comprehend that there's a big difference between an experienced player who plays the game for years (like you said you did with your BC references), and a total new player who just starts NOW, then further discussion is rather moot.
Because you apparently forgot that the game is pretty challenging for a complete new player with even the most basic essentials like npc interaction, vendor handling and what not. I've happened to have had a few friends mentoring through their first few month of game journey. And I know how many times they died for no reason at all, because they just had no experience on aggro, how to use their spells and abilities. And they ask things that make you go "wtf, it's obvious", no it isn't, we just got used to it, so it became obvious to us.
We got used to that stuff back then already at lowest levels. Today all mob in starter zones are neutral.

But I am glad you are such a boss at the game. Newsflash.. Many new players are not.
And without constant refill, we probably wouldn't play the game anymore. People leaving the game, and new ones come. It's catered for the new ones more than for the old ones. The entire ease of content today is set so new players can catch up rather fast with the endgame community.
And that can come to a price, the lack of skill practice.

[Grocalis]

Like said, this is really nothing new. We have had zones like this since BC, when they added Quel'Danas and didn't allow us to fly around the island. WOTLK didn't really have a full zone but didn't allow Wintergrasp to be flyable during fights. Cataclysm had Molten Front and Tol Barad without flying, since one was heavy pvp focused and the other had inventive questing mechanics that wouldn't work with flying (like the platforming up to the firehawk roost). Thunder Isle is supposed to be like these zones, minus a big pvp quasi-battleground like TB/WG, and instead focusing on the conflict in a world pvp form with the blood elves and kirin tor.

[Granyala]

But I am glad you are such a boss at the game. Newsflash.. Many new players are not.

Neither am I. There are TONS of players that perform much better than me.

I suggest you read my post again. I merely mocked your statement that back in the day CC wasn't a problem. Just believe me when I say that the problems and causes for wipes in dungeons were the same in TBC as they were in Cata.

It's just absurd to say that all BC players didn't have problems with BC.

You know how I learned to CC?
I was instagibbed by Moroes Add in Karazhan (2nd Boss) because I let my shackle run out. After that, the add ran rampage and wiped the raid.
Yeah I learned it the hard way through flames and repair bills.

The problem is that Blizzard opened Pandoras Box with Wraths easiness. They overdid it, the community got used to it. And if they try to implement harder stuff (See cata dungeons) the people rather bitch and moan for nerfs instead of looking at "what did I wrong and how can I fix it". The attitude of the playerbase has changed completely.

Challenge is no longer something they want to grow on, it's just a nuisance on their way to the next purple.

[Raelbo]

I made an Alliance character 6 years ago on a balanced PvP server and i had to migrate when it became full horde because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms.

In other words you became part of the problem...not that I blame you really, just stating the facts. PvP imbalance did not become a problem because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms. It became a problem because human nature results in a tendency for people to migrate to the stronger faction, and in WoW the moment, the stronger faction is the faction with more members (this is actually where Blizzard are at fault).

Even if Blizzard merged realms to achieve faction balance, one side would still be marginally stronger than the other, and human nature would soon result in the faction balance skewing again. It is, in engineering terms, an inherently unstable system that will tend to imbalance with time.

If you make the choice of staying on such a terrible server, you accept to be ganked endlessly by the overwhelming number of the enemy.

That is pretty harsh. It is never reasonable to expect someone to move servers because of something that happened which is no fault of their own.

Obviously server imbalance, especially on a PvP realm is a problem. Having balanced numbers between factions is the ideal situation for everyone involved. Dealing with the problem means changing the system so that server imbalance is no longer the natural outcome of that system.

You can't change human nature. But Blizzard can change the way the game reacts to server imbalance in such a way that faction desirability no longer scales up with faction size. In fact you want the two to be inversely proportional - the less people you have on your faction, relative to the opposition, the better it should be for you. Human nature will do the rest and most servers will soon have faction balance sitting at close to 50/50.

So really, all Blizzard need to do is put stuff into the game which gives players on the underdog faction a distinct advantage:

eg1: Put a tenacity type buff that functions by looking at how many maximum level characters are online for each faction, and then dynamically buff the faction with the lower population. If alliance outnumber horde 10:1 on your server, then expect to need 10 alliance to take down 1 horde in a PvP confrontation.

eg2: Make certain scarce resources on the server faction specific. If horde outnumber alliance 10:1 on a server then expect horde to require 10 times more effort to obtain said resource. Hell, maybe even scale the cost of Honor/Justice/Conquest/Valor items with population ratios (to mimic real life supply and demand issues).


TL;DR: All I am saying is don't blame people who refuse to move to the more populous faction for their situation. And if you are going to blame Blizzard, at least try and understand the problem and offer a good solution of what they can do to rectify this.

[Deleted]

I think the poster that stated "progression doesn't make sense with flying mounts" is spot on. Maybe they will unlock more of the isle over time. Flying would ruin that.

Yeah that makes sense.

[Kralljin]

I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.

You can't fly until you get to level 90, and depending on your performance that may take several zones to do so. What is more a lot of variety as to where to quest is offered. That means that almost all the zones in Pandaria have been designed so a player can play in them without being able to fly.

Same applies for Wotlk, yet you could fly everywhere in Wotlk with lvl 77+ except Wintergrasp during battles, at start you couldn't even fly in Wintergrasp at all.

The reason was pretty simple, that people experience the questing / exploration instead of just flying over, not much to do with flying mounts in general.

That takes a lot of work. Work that an entire developing team won't commit to, to satisfy just one person's opinion. Especially Ghostcrawler's who is not the one responsible for questing and world design, his priorities are things like the UI. This is an opinion shared by most of the developing team. It's the only way it would ever make it into the game. Ghostcrawler was just the one that transfered that message to the community.

Not really, if every dev agress with this, someone should tell the model designers to stop making Flying Mount models

[Deleted]

This is highly annoying and inacceptable on PvE servers. It should be enabled for those servers. Otherwise it's boycott Thunder Isle time.

[DeadmanWalking]

If you look at the island its obvious that the questing areas progress around the southern end of the island and then across the middle up a steep incline. It makes sense to not have flying there so you can't just fly up the cliff to the final area. It does not make sense to make you go out the north gate of the Valley of eternal blossoms to Kun Lai, down the tunnel canal using the boat NPC, down the misty staircase into 4 winds and across the Verman infested farmlands just to plant your farm and then down into Karasang to the spine wall, jump into the ocean to swim around the end of the spine wall to the fishing village so you can get on dry land to mount up again just so you can gt to Klaxxi'vess to do your Klaxxi dailies.

[Simulacrum]

eg1: Put a tenacity type buff that functions by looking at how many maximum level characters are online for each faction, and then dynamically buff the faction with the lower population. If alliance outnumber horde 10:1 on your server, then expect to need 10 alliance to take down 1 horde in a PvP confrontation.

I remember that from wintergrasp. Immortal warriors outhealing entire raids with second wind, immune to all cc thanks to diminishing returns, oneshotting everyone with aoes and cleaves. Good times indeed.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure where I'm trying to state my opinions as facts, but ok. If you say so.

At any rate, while there certainly is room for personal opinion in what someone finds fun and what isn't fun, there are also things which are proven to be generally good game design choices. Flying mounts and what they entail is not one of them. Or well, they were back in TBC, when they were expensive and only given at the very end of your journey. But now that they're an expected part of your repetoire from a relatively early point of your journey through the game, they're pretty terrible.

Essentially, games (and RPGs in particular) are about gaining power. Journeying through the world, struggling against enemies, getting stronger as a result. One of the rewards for your struggles is the power gain itself, and the relative strength you now have against those foes you struggled against previously. It's rewarding to be able to go back and destroy the enemies who gave you a hard time previously. On a similar note, flying works into this by being the reward for struggling through on foot at first. Instead of taking ages to travel, you can now fly over everything with ease. Great!

Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long. So now, instead of being a reward, it's an expected part of the game. Except in this form, flying doesn't work, because it removes a lot of the struggle, a lot of the challenge which makes RPGs and games in general so compelling and interesting. It's just flying from point A to point B, doing a bit of fighting, then flying to point C, etc.

So Blizzard replicate the 'reward for reaching the end of your journey' by taking away flying until you reach the new level cap. Then there you go, you're rewarded. That works. But then, level 90 isn't the end of our journey, is it? There's still plenty of progression to go, daily quests to do, etc.

So they're removed again for these new dailies. They'll probably keep getting removed whenever Blizzard feel able. Because flying mounts are, honestly, a terrible game design decision.

I can't say how much I disagree with EVERYTHING you said. This kind of thing might work in an single player RPG environment and is mostly an eleventh hour super power. Something awesome you don't need anymore at that point. In World of Warcraft flying mounts are of great importance, you have no idea how long most things would take without them.
This might be fine for an single player RPG were you do those things ONCE but not for an MMORPG were you have to do them dozen of times over and over again before you can have fun with the actual game.