Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #81
    Banned Haven's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Russia
    Posts
    11,046
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I don't think the Old Gods are content in letting people live their lives. What about all the sinister scheming and manipulation, invading the minds of Azeroth's inhabitants, and telling them all this scary stuff that drives them against each other. They definitely have some evil and destructive agenda.
    It's not about destruction or evil. It's about chaos in itself! It's neither good or evil, it's change, an enemy of both stability and stagnation.

  2. #82
    Titan = Order
    Old Gods = Chaos
    Burning Legion = Rebels/Anarchist
    Mortals = Subjects to choose one of the three

  3. #83
    Stood in the Fire Zanito44's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Imagination World
    Posts
    426
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The old gods didn't really "fight" each other to win anything, they sent their forces to fight each other just to watch them fight each other. Like people that crash hotwheels cars into one another for bugs and giggles.

    The titans cast down the old gods handedly. All Five old gods fell; among these, one was killed, and another was thought dead. The titans went 5-0 against the old gods and their armies and the elemental lords and THEIR armies.
    I think there was one Titan who actually fell or died in this case but I'm not sure if it was because of C'thun or Y'shaarj. My bet is it was Y'shaarj and the result of his death and one of the Titans own prompted them to decide that they were just going to beat them to unconsciousness and then imprison them. One Old God's "death" caused some crazy stuff on the southern regions so I'm guessing they didn't want to take chances with the remaining. Had they killed Yogg'saron it probably would've been just as bad since he was about as big as Northrend.(Maybe?)

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    It's not about destruction or evil. It's about chaos in itself! It's neither good or evil, it's change, an enemy of both stability and stagnation.
    But in this case, their chaos is not random, they lead it somewhere, somewhere bad for the rest of the living creatures of Azeroth. And that IS evil.

    Have you ever seen D&D aligment chart? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignme...%26_Dragons%29

    Old Gods are Chaotic Evil.
    Chaotic Evil is referred to as the "Destroyer" or "Demonic" alignment. Characters of this alignment tend to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have any regard for the lives or freedom of other people. They do not work well in groups, as they resent being given orders, and usually behave themselves only out of fear of punishment.

    Sargeras is Lawful Evil.
    Lawful Evil is referred to as the "Dominator" or "Diabolic" alignment. Characters of this alignment see a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit, and show a combination of desirable and undesirable traits; while they usually obey their superiors and keep their word, they care nothing for the rights and freedoms of other individuals and are not averse to twisting the rules to work in their favor. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct, and loyal soldiers who enjoy the act of killing.

    The Titans are Lawful Neutral.
    Lawful Neutral is called the "Judge" or "Disciplined" alignment. A Lawful Neutral character typically believes strongly in Lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules and tradition, and often follows a personal code. A Lawful Neutral society would typically enforce strict laws to maintain social order, and place a high value on traditions and historical precedent. Examples of Lawful Neutral characters might include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer that adheres mercilessly to the word of the law, and a disciplined monk.

  5. #85
    Banned Haven's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Russia
    Posts
    11,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    But in this case, their chaos is not random, they lead it somewhere, somewhere bad for the rest of the living creatures of Azeroth. And that IS evil.

    Have you ever seen D&D aligment chart? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignme...%26_Dragons%29

    Old Gods are Chaotic Evil.
    Chaotic Evil is referred to as the "Destroyer" or "Demonic" alignment. Characters of this alignment tend to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have any regard for the lives or freedom of other people. They do not work well in groups, as they resent being given orders, and usually behave themselves only out of fear of punishment.

    Sargeras is Lawful Evil.
    Lawful Evil is referred to as the "Dominator" or "Diabolic" alignment. Characters of this alignment see a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit, and show a combination of desirable and undesirable traits; while they usually obey their superiors and keep their word, they care nothing for the rights and freedoms of other individuals and are not averse to twisting the rules to work in their favor. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct, and loyal soldiers who enjoy the act of killing.

    The Titans are Lawful Neutral.
    Lawful Neutral is called the "Judge" or "Disciplined" alignment. A Lawful Neutral character typically believes strongly in Lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules and tradition, and often follows a personal code. A Lawful Neutral society would typically enforce strict laws to maintain social order, and place a high value on traditions and historical precedent. Examples of Lawful Neutral characters might include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer that adheres mercilessly to the word of the law, and a disciplined monk.
    It's not D&D. And not everything falls under such classification. In 4th edition they reduced it to lawful good, good, neutral, evil, and chaotic evil IIRC. Also, Old Gods weren't designed with this standart in mind. They turned us from machines to flesh, whether it's good or bad. I perceive it as a jest and tend to liken them more to Tzeentch from Warhammer.

  6. #86
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The Sunny Beaches of Canada
    Posts
    9,384
    The gods of Warhammer aren't a bad comparison.

    The Old Gods don't much care how the game goes, as long as they stay in charge.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    We do know way too little about the titans motives and reasons for wanting their order.

    Sure you can label them as intolerant dictators, but what if their order is actually the best thing for all involved? Still bad Dictator?
    still its obvious the titans will be villains. the trope is a common one in scifi comics tv fantasy. omni powerful beings almost robotic and emotionless in their ways that go around "fixing" people or planets and believe only their way is the right way and need to be stopped or "shown" that a little bit of chaos can be a good thing.

    i mean look at azeroth the old gods are almost free, their minions while beaten back are rebuilding, the "ecosystem" has been "contaminated" with things like demons orcs and draenei. the original seed races are almost all "malfunctioned" not to mention the fact that the well is broken and the world has been blown up not once but twice

    the titans would take one look at this planet and say "re-origination re-origination RE-ORIGINATION"
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  8. #88
    I'm so sick of this tired, ill-informed argument.

    The Pantheon is lawful neutral with good tendencies. They re-originate planets only when they've 'deviated' so far from the plan that it has become a danger to itself and others. A world teeming with Old God corruption, for example.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    A world teeming with Old God corruption, for example.
    Sounds like Azeroth to me.

    Most beings on azeroth have been corrupted in one way or the other.

  10. #90
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,555
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylf View Post
    Sounds like Azeroth to me.

    Most beings on azeroth have been corrupted in one way or the other.
    Except we "proved" to the Pantheon (or algalon, at least) that we have enough pluck and moxy to potentially defeat the Old Gods in ways the Titans could not.

    Hence why Algalon deemed us "not blow-upable"
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except we "proved" to the Pantheon (or algalon, at least) that we have enough pluck and moxy to potentially defeat the Old Gods in ways the Titans could not.

    Hence why Algalon deemed us "not blow-upable"
    There is a good chance that Algalon, now turned into emotional wreck, is deemed corrupted by titans and promptly destroyed, forcing them to investigate what the hell happened.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except we "proved" to the Pantheon (or algalon, at least) that we have enough pluck and moxy to potentially defeat the Old Gods in ways the Titans could not.

    Hence why Algalon deemed us "not blow-upable"
    Algalons "new view" on mortals has not much to do with Yogg-sarons Defeat.

    It is rather the fact the we were able to beat him despite the fact that his calculation told him that he would win.

    If it had something to do with Yogg-sarons defeat, the Encounter wouldn't make any sense, why should we beat him up to realise that we defeated Yogg-saron?


    Algalon is now searching for answers because he trusted blindly his calculation and now they were proven wrong and his entire view on the universe is pretty much out of place.

  13. #93
    Field Marshal
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    France
    Posts
    55
    Anarchy ≠ Chaos. It means lack of permanent central authority. A council of – mad – gods isn't exactly lack of authority…

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryss View Post
    Anarchy ≠ Chaos. It means lack of permanent central authority. A council of – mad – gods isn't exactly lack of authority…
    why? as was said many times, the old gods don't rule. they just feed. the only reason they are manipulating the mortal races and the black dragons right now is because they want to get out of jail.

    why do you think the qiraji, the nerubians and the mantid had emperors of their own? it's because the old gods don't rule. they are merely their religion, not their leaders.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    why? as was said many times, the old gods don't rule. they just feed. the only reason they are manipulating the mortal races and the black dragons right now is because they want to get out of jail.

    why do you think the qiraji, the nerubians and the mantid had emperors of their own? it's because the old gods don't rule. they are merely their religion, not their leaders.
    Anarchy is based on freedom, mind controlling people is everything but freedom. Just because we don't know Old Gods agenda doesn't mean they don't have one. In fact, I'd say their efforts prove they pursue something, and if they need to drive their minions crazy before they join them, I'd also say it's something really, really evil, something no sane living being would want to happen.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Anarchy is based on freedom, mind controlling people is everything but freedom. Just because we don't know Old Gods agenda doesn't mean they don't have one. In fact, I'd say their efforts prove they pursue something, and if they need to drive their minions crazy before they join them, I'd also say it's something really, really evil, something no sane living being would want to happen.
    Sanity is based on the point of view.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Sanity is based on the point of view.
    Let's put it this way, death is something objectively bad for every living creature. Trying to force the end of the world is something bad for yourself and everybody else except the Old Gods. That is insane.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Let's put it this way, death is something objectively bad for every living creature. Trying to force the end of the world is something bad for yourself and everybody else except the Old Gods. That is insane.
    Unless there is something after death, something that frail mortal brains cant comprehend.

  19. #99
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,555
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin
    Algalons "new view" on mortals has not much to do with Yogg-sarons Defeat.

    It is rather the fact the we were able to beat him despite the fact that his calculation told him that he would win.

    If it had something to do with Yogg-sarons defeat, the Encounter wouldn't make any sense, why should we beat him up to realise that we defeated Yogg-saron?
    "You prevailed where the Titans' own perfect creations have failed."

    I take this Algalon quote as referring to the forces of Ulduar, and not just Algalon referring to himself in the third person. We beat down Yogg-Saron and the corrupted watchers, and ultimately beat down Algalon... which is what causes him to reconsider that the titans are the only able-bodied force in the universe to fight against the various evils skulking around.

    So in short, Algalon sees:
    -Titan creations have failed; they fell to yogg-saron
    -The mortals, who were perceived to be various unbecoming adjectives, defeated the titan creations (they didn't compute into his calculation)
    -the mortals defeated Yogg-saron
    -The mortals defied Algalon's calculations
    ...therefore...
    -Mortals must be some pretty cool guys.


    and perhaps more to the point, if Algalon weren't at least halfway assed that we could defend ourselves from the old gods, I don't see much good in letting everyone live, only to let them be otherwise destroyed by the old gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkingfacts
    why? as was said many times, the old gods don't rule. they just feed. the only reason they are manipulating the mortal races and the black dragons right now is because they want to get out of jail.
    We don't really know what degree the old gods influenced pre-titan Azeroth... given their penchant for liking causing anarchy and disarray, it's not too huge a stretch of the imagination that they enjoyed toying with mortals. You also forget that they also had Azeroth in a near-constant state of elemental war for the hell of it... you think the trolls and tauren didn't get caught up in the crossfire?

    The old gods are like kids stepping on an anthill. They have no wish to be the "king of the ants," they destroy the anthill simply because they can.

    The titans are like scientists who round up the ants and put them in an ant farm... the ants aren't "free," but they aren't being squashed left and right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Unless there is something after death, something that frail mortal brains cant comprehend.
    If it's being mind raped by the old gods for all eternity, then yes, I'd like to fight them to avoid that.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-01-14 at 06:29 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #100
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The Sunny Beaches of Canada
    Posts
    9,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    -The mortals defied Algalon's calculations
    ...therefore...
    -Mortals must be some pretty cool guys.
    I would love that to be the actual output of Algalon's calculations. "Processing... output result: cool dudes."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •