Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

[NotAnOtherUser]

I don't speak for everyone but, I really hope this isn't the only way the Alliance can be shown to have teeth. I'd rather decorate Ashenvale with the entrails of Orc grunts than kill cowering citizens in the street, ya know, slay the Horde defilers in home turf they have no business being in, and leaving their mutilated bodies around as a reminder of what fate awaits them. Again, I don't speak for everyone. If Blizz was trying to show Alliance might in 5.1, for an audience of people in line with my purview, they missed their mark completely and entirely.

i feel the same.
the alliance is fighting a war for survival and revenge, the alliance shouldn't be labeled as the good guys, because in war you must do anything to secure the safety of your people at any cost...

[Durandro]

Varian "All dem's orcs are monster and need to diez"
Garithos "All those disgusting none humans are scum and should be wiped out"
Silver hand "All magic users are demon worshipers and need to be cleansed"

I see a trend forming here.

Actually, this isn't right.

That's how Varian used to be, when the memories of being a slave forced to fight and kill for Orcish amusement was still fresh in his mind. Since then he's tempered his anger to a more reasonable distrust of his enemies. Not to mention he actually has some respect for certain individuals, even defeated enemies. Unlike Garrosh, who hates everyone and treats even his closest advisors and best soldiers like disposable garbage.

Garithos was essentially a vigilantee, with no 'official' power other then what he gave himself. Lordaeron was destroyed, and he merely led the remains of the alliance forces in the area. His actions were bigotted, but he was one man - a long dead man at that. Clinging onto him as the shining beacon of why the Alliance is wrong is just sad. Otherwise should the Alliance keep bringing up Blackhand and Gul'dan?

The Silver Hand don't actually have that view at all, not sure where you got that from. They aren't the old Blue Dragonflight. They are defenders of Alliance interests in Dalaran, and take offense at the Blood Elves being there due to the fact they see them as corrupted kin little better then the Fel Elves that joined the Burning Legion. Which is perhaps bigotted, but not to the degree you're implying.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 07:53 AM ----------

Considering the Horde have no issues attacking dragons (ToW), Garrosh's plans to take over Moonglade as part of his "final solution" for the Night Elves (ToW), and the fact Tirion is a human and he had no respect for him back in Wrath, what makes you think it would've been safer in other neutral organisations. I mean, you forget the Kirin Tor *was* a neutral organisation thats neutrality was betrayed from within.

That is true. Wasn't really anywhere else to hide it from Garrosh then, other then in Stormwind. Which is 'more Alliance' oriented. The Night Elves lean more towards neutrality then Humans (based on the Cenarion Circle) - though Garrosh is intent on attacking them non-stop for little to no reason.

[Justignoreme]

i feel the same.
the alliance is fighting a war for survival and revenge, the alliance shouldn't be labeled as the good guys, because in war you must do anything to secure the safety of your people at any cost...

It's not any costs, it's tit for tat. The Horde strings up the bodies of slain Alliance along the gold road, collects heads for proof of demise, and so on. Why the hell aren't we doing that? We should be doing that. We do it to non-Horde crap all the time... Why do we waste time throwing Satyr flesh onto a brazier to sacrifice to Elune. We should be carving up Horde for that purpose, as they've done to Alliance. These are some of the "badass things" that attract people to the Horde too. It's implied Alliance races can have it in them, but never shown cause developers don't give a shit about the Alliance image. Look at AV, loot medals off Horde players as Alliance (so what), what are they looting off Alliance players? Blood, chunks of flesh. That's fine, let me feed orc meat to my night saber....

[Arganaut]

Theramore/Dalaran storyline is nice indeed, because it stirs things up and shows that the sides are not that different. But Anduin/Varian stories suck horribly, because they both just instantly become infallible, perfect, and omnipotent.

I don't know, I give you neither has really had a set back in this war, and I've yet to see any of that anger in Varian that we saw when he re-joined the game. He has gone from one extreme to another. I find Anduin quite endearing even if his bubble is non-dispellable and absorbs infinite damage. Didn't stop a pile of rocks tho eh!

[Torais]

While the Alliance's actions aren't completely clean, they are certainly better then what Garrosh's Horde would do in the same situation. Which is kill every non-horde person in the city, on the spot, no mercy and no prisoners. We know this is what the 'Old Horde' used to do, and is what Garrosh did to Theramore (and what the Forsaken did to Gilneas and Southshore).

Could Jaina have done things better? Sure. Was she right to hide the Bell in Darnassus? Hard to say, though there was probably a better place to hide it that was more neutral (Wyrmrest? Argent Crusade?). Could she have been a lot more vindictive and brutal? Oh hell yes.

Its clear that even if Jaina's actions are considered 'grey', the current actions of the Horde are closer to black. Garrosh is taking them down a very dark path.

Its why I'm looking forward to the Horde being renewed for the next expansion. A new more enlightened leader (and honestly, probably more badass and heroic - two qualities Garrosh lacks) who understands strength needs to be tempered with wisdom. Thrall, Cairne, Vol'jin. Those were the Horde's leaders before Garrosh ruined it. And they were better off for it.

One has to consider though the perhaps unfair chance of redemption the Horde side will experience. It is all but certain we will get the chance to kill Garrosh and in a sense be exorcising our proverbial demons. The Alliance? Not so certain. It is possible Jaina or Varian might make an ultimate sacrifice in such an encounter, somewhat atoning for the progressively dark path their lead their factions down but it is a far less certain scenario.

I almost feel a little bit sorry for Alliance. I can't help feeling the whole Garrosh story is going to be yet again a Horde centric chapter in WoW. For the Horde it is saving their faction from damnation as well as rebirth as whatever will transpire after Garrosh's ultimate fate. For the Alliance? Perhaps an element of vengeance but I doubt much more.

[NotAnOtherUser]

One has to consider though the perhaps unfair chance of redemption the Horde side will experience. It is all but certain we will get the chance to kill Garrosh and in a sense be exorcising our proverbial demons. The Alliance? Not so certain. It is possible Jaina or Varian might make an ultimate sacrifice in such an encounter, somewhat atoning for the progressively dark path their lead their factions down but it is a far less certain scenario.

I almost feel a little bit sorry for Alliance. I can't help feeling the whole Garrosh story is going to be yet again a Horde centric chapter in WoW. For the Horde it is saving their faction from damnation as well as rebirth as whatever will transpire after Garrosh's ultimate fate. For the Alliance? Perhaps an element of vengeance but I doubt much more.

for the horde is going to be like when jesus left earth floating in glory,
for the alliance is going to be: ok rebel horde we in but we aint breaking anything (because we the good guys :sarcasm we just for the bad guys after we are done if you want we will clean the mess for ya and leave for your glory redemption?
its going to be so gay for the alliance...

[Deleted]

I just find the Purge of Dalaran hilarious.

Aetha's was the deciding vote to make sure Jaina became head of the Kirin Tor because he advocated peace, yet Jaina didn't even take a second to hear him out when push came to shove.

Biting the Hand that feeds you indeed.

[Haven]

I've yet to see any of that anger in Varian that we saw when he re-joined the game. He has gone from one extreme to another.

Just like Garrosh. From a depressed whiner to an aggressive thug to a brutal, but still honorable and caring leader, to a stupid nazi tyrant bent on world domination through an evil artifact creating a posessed army.

[Deleted]

Just like Garrosh. From a depressed whiner to an aggressive thug to a brutal, but still honorable and caring leader, to a stupid nazi tyrant bent on world domination through an evil artifact creating a posessed army.

Garrosh has pingponged so fast with his personality he makes the chinese blush.

[Verdugo]

Just like Garrosh. From a depressed whiner to an aggressive thug to a brutal, but still honorable and caring leader, to a stupid nazi tyrant bent on world domination through an evil artifact creating a posessed army.

Apparently it was planned all along.

Blizzard, this is not something you should be proud of.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Personally I loved this quest-line. It is the reason I actually wanted to reach exalted on this reputation. Not for the mount, epics of status but because it showed a point of view unique to that faction.
I know there are a lot of Horde and Alliance zealots who are so into the game that they hate the thought of players who have Horde and Alliance alts and I don’t give a rat’s ass about that. When the Crusader’s Coliseum opened up I made my first Horde alt and leveled him high enough to see the story from the Horde perspective. It was all about the story.

Spoiler Warning----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me the main point of the Horde quest line in the Dominance Offensive was to show that Garrosh was really abusing his position of power for his own ends. The “assassination” of Vol’jin, the occupation of the Troll Isles, the desire to use corruptive magic, and most of all his fascination with creating his own race of soldiers outside the members of the horde with the power the mogu once wielded. Vol’jin wants him dead, Lor’themar wants out, Thrall wants to “have words” with him and it’s a wonder how Cairne can stand beside him though all of this. Garrosh in his arrogance watches his soldiers turn into monsters one by one and when all is done he rewards their loyalty by calling them failures.

The Operation Shieldwall was quite different. It was almost saccharine and yet performed with precision. Sure we get to bring old agents out of retirement like am FBI drama but we also get to see the Alliance gathering superior Intel. Not only do we see Varian doing the opposite of Garrosh compromising and meeting with his allies, Jaina and Tyrande in an almost TOO civil manner (It seems that Jaina took matters into her own hands by blaming everyone the Horde as a whole instead of Garrosh greed for the bell. She seemed to walk over Varian into the Alliance after Dalaran.) Meanwhile, Anduin finds the counter by himself and earns the respect of the “creator” of the Sha as we know them today. The Monkey King. He makes his point by not only countering the Divine Bell but by getting Garrosh to shatter the Bell for him even if by accident.

End of Spoilers --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The purge of Dalaran was not an act of Alliance aggression but another costly price that Garrosh was willing to put on the horde tab JUST so he could try his hand with “A new toy.” “A new toy he ends up smashing to pieces. The Horde itself paid more for the price of Garrosh’s quest for power. It is clear that he is not the glue that holds it together but a spoiled kid burning away his inheritance. More so he is a megalomaniac who doesn’t think twice about damning his own people for power like Arthas, Kael’Thas, Illidan and every other villain in the franchise.

Maybe if Anduin ditched the Wesley Crusher outfit and did something else with that hair he might actually be interesting to root for. If you are still rooting for Garrosh at the end of this it’s clear the only reason he is letting your character live is to buy time for your brainwashed Super-soldier replacement.

[Haven]

Apparently it was planned all along.

Blizzard, this is not something you should be proud of.

They should read more books... And yeah, I can see it being designed to end that way. But they failed to make it believable.

[Lighto73]

It's sort of a plot hole. Sometimes magic addiction is fatal, sometimes they turn into zombies, yet the High Elves that remain had nothing happen to them except manageable hunger pains. Though, it can be attributed to variations in susceptibility between individuals.

I feel like most of the High Elves we see in-game are rangers that were not in Silvermoon when it fell and were usually further away from the Sunwell's influence. Which would explain why they did not have as big a problem with magic addiction.

---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 07:01 AM ----------

It's not any costs, it's tit for tat. The Horde strings up the bodies of slain Alliance along the gold road, collects heads for proof of demise, and so on. Why the hell aren't we doing that? We should be doing that. We do it to non-Horde crap all the time... Why do we waste time throwing Satyr flesh onto a brazier to sacrifice to Elune. We should be carving up Horde for that purpose, as they've done to Alliance. These are some of the "badass things" that attract people to the Horde too. It's implied Alliance races can have it in them, but never shown cause developers don't give a shit about the Alliance image. Look at AV, loot medals off Horde players as Alliance (so what), what are they looting off Alliance players? Blood, chunks of flesh. That's fine, let me feed orc meat to my night saber....

I wish it was tit for tat too. Then we would get to kill Varian at the end of this expansion as well.

There is a simple reason it is not, it is to show that what the Horde is doing is wrong and the Alliance is the more noble faction. If they were as brutal as the Horde, then there would be no terms of peace and the story would never progress.

In all honesty, this whole paragraph reminds me of the scenario A Little Patience, with you playing the part of Tyrande. For your part, you played it well!

[Aeula]

Source? Otherwise I'll trust my experience following her around watching her hit each one with a fireball and then use the spell teleport on them, and then tell Varian they were sent to the violet hold.

Only source i have is my own eyes ^^, She killed them all when i went thru the quest chain, i might do the quest again incase it was a bug when i faction change my paladin to horde.

[Zaelsino]

Only source i have is my own eyes ^^, She killed them all when i went thru the quest chain, i might do the quest again incase it was a bug when i faction change my paladin to horde.

I'm pretty sure she teleports all civilians to the Violet Hold. She'd hurl the occasional fireball at them, but wouldn't ever kill them.

[Torais]

I also find it hilarious, but also because of other things.
Jaina is furious because the Horde "abused" the "neutral" Kirin-Tor by stealing a Bell that is protected in Darnassus by "neutral" Kirin-Tor shields.

To be fair though, that isn't bad writing. Jaina isn't a robot and is likely acting with a lot of emotion following the events Theramore. It's a character flaw but such flaws often make a character far more interesting and believable then their strengths (The main reason why so many, myself included, hate Thrall's writing with a burning pasion).

Likewise, the Alliance taking on a bit of a dark taint around the edges also isn't really a bad thing. I know some diehard Alliance fanatics will argue till they are blue in the face the virtues and perfection of their faction of choice but as far as writing goes, such flaws are good writing. It is unrealistic to have a perfect character or group (again, see Thrall) and having a faction starting to act like the very monster they are supposedly up in arms against is a much more believable situation then the Alliance being a squeaky clean collection of saints and martyrs after so much conflict.

[Trubo]

Wouldn't be surprised if someone has said this in the 24 pages of this thread but I really don't want to check the thread for confirmation.

What bothered me most about the Purge was that we, the player, had more interest in preserving the dragonhawks than the people themselves. An option to knock unconscious the Sunreavers would have helped prevent the whole genocide nature of the quests. Plus you'd think it'd be more useful to have a living person to interrogate than just corpses all over the place.

Don't get me wrong, what I mentioned would still be wrong but certainly not as evil as just straight up killing anything and everything that moved.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Wouldn't be surprised if someone has said this in the 24 pages of this thread but I really don't want to check the thread for confirmation.

What bothered me most about the Purge was that we, the player, had more interest in preserving the dragonhawks than the people themselves. An option to knock unconscious the Sunreavers would have helped prevent the whole genocide nature of the quests. Plus you'd think it'd be more useful to have a living person to interrogate than just corpses all over the place.

Don't get me wrong, what I mentioned would still be wrong but certainly not as evil as just straight up killing anything and everything that moved.

Limitation of game mechanics. Still amusing people want to vilify the Alliance though(Not you specifically though).

[luccadeo]

I'm pretty sure she teleports all civilians to the Violet Hold. She'd hurl the occasional fireball at them, but wouldn't ever kill them.

The only ones she kills are the ones that attack her. She teleports the rest to VH. I'm glad that Dalaran went to the Alliance. It is about time that there are consequences for actions in this game and not just some static world.

[Trubo]

The only ones she kills are the ones that attack her. She teleports the rest to VH. I'm glad that Dalaran went to the Alliance. It is about time that there are consequences for actions in this game and not just some static world.

I'd still prefer Dalaran to be neutral. Jaina kind of shot herself in the foot when she decided to use her championed "neutral" faction to protect the bell in an Alliance city. There were definitely better neutral places to keep the bell from Alliance and Horde hands that, if violated, could have been the deciding factor to destroy the offending faction. A few off the top of my head:

Shattrath with the Naaru.
The Dragonflights
The Argent Crusade

Heck, Dalaran itself would have been a better place to store the Bell. At least her claims to being betrayed would have more merit.