5.2 effects on pvp for Warriors

[Venaliter]

I sit in Defensive Stance most of the time

That would be why it got nerfed.

Rogues give up alot of damage to recup, warriors do.... nothing.

And Recup is 3% every 3 seconds, that's 1% per second

Sort of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

warriors were the worst pvp class in cata for the last to seasons

Again, for like the 5000th time, that doesn't mean you have an excuse to be ridiculously OP for an entire expansion.

Look, Warriors atm have 0 disadvantages atm, mobility is amazing, selhealing is amazing burst is great and control is really good.

It should be obvious to anyone, that all of this just doesnt work very well for any class, OFCOURSE THEY'RE NERFING IT...

You'd think it would be obvious, wouldn't you?

Yes, second wind stays the same. But instead they nerf Defensive Stance with 10% less reduced damage for anyone that's not Protection.

Should have really been 15% nerf, but Blizzard was generous.

to much qq .. warrior been to op in a long time and i think these "nerfs" will be good for the game. and yes i have a warrior.

Yeah. I think they go a long way to restoring the balance.

To the guy saying hard swaps on warriors don't happen because of 25% defensive stance just...no. Burst is so high that a single class who's made sure that the warrior has burnt his stuns can basically burn 100-0 through a warrior's defensive stance, shield wall, second wind and die by the sword.

Clueless. Warrior swaps DO happen, but NEVER first. Because they take a ridiculous amount more effort to kill then anything else. Or did. We'll see what happens now. My judgement is that warriors have been toned down enough now.

[Ariavo]

Venaliter, it seems you really want to let the world know that you think Warriors are too strong atm by replying to (half) quotes. Are you mad about the damage or survivability? Because OP is a big acronym with a lot of different meanings.

[Venaliter]

Venaliter, it seems you really want to let the world know that you think Warriors are too strong atm by replying to (half) quotes. Are you mad about the damage or survivability? Because OP is a big acronym with a lot of different meanings.

I can't apply to every full quote. Would be a literal wall of text, and a lot of it would say the same thing. Do I think warriors were ridiculously broken at release? Certainly. Do I view certain warriors who say they were not with contempt? Absolutely. Do I think if the PTR went live tomorrow, would Warriors be still too strong? No. I think they've corrected most of it, and what little remains is probably decent class flavor.

DKs are pretty offensive, and Warriors are pretty defensive. And I'm okay with that.

[cFortyfive]

DKs are pretty offensive, and Warriors are pretty defensive. And I'm okay with that.

What exactly makes the one offensive and the other defensive ? I don't really see warriors have way better defensive mechanisms once you take def stance out of the picture ? Not that being defensive is a particular strength of dks of course .

[willtron]

still not enough

[klaps_05]

gone are the days when a warrior actually had to be SMART in order to close in on a mage. today with freedom totems/double freedoms/root breaks/etc and tons of stuns the art of sticking it to the mage is nothing but faceroll.

[Terahertz]

It's funny though, because the only way I'm able to kill a warrior as Feral (tried to as boomkin, but my non-rng-burst dmg is dogshit) is by using all of my CDs or using several CDs. While the only way of surviving versus a warrior is to kite, kite and kite.

You warriors have SO many ways that are SO DAMN FORGIVING. Die by the sword allows you to burst without ANY risk (wtb 50% dmg taken when recklessness is active back). Shield Wall simply grants you 50% dmg reduction. Second Wind REWARDS you for being below 35% hp?! I mean, really? Not even to mention all the gap closers you have. Heroic Leap which post 5.2 deals a hefty amount of damage and gives 70% movement speed for 3 seconds. Charge that stuns you for like 3(4?) seconds. Shockwave that stuns every 20 seconds for 4(5?) seconds in frontal cone?! Safeguard removing roots?!?!

Your class is more of a pain in the butthole than a DK is and it rewards dumb play the most out of ALL classes. Make ONE mistake as balance druid? GG, you're dead. Make a mistake as hunter? GG. Make a mistake as DK? Boom, blown up.

Edit: To actually provide SOME feedback. IMO 2nd wind should have an ICD. A 1 minute ICD actually. And it shouldn't grant rage at all, heck, it should actually convert rage INTO health while below 35%... Though that would be just lame huehue. But 2nd wind shouldnt grant rage and it should have a 30-45 or 1 minute ICD and grant 3% hp every 1 second for 10 seconds when your hp hits below 35%. Or change it so that 2nd wind grants 4% hp every 1 second when below 25%.

The defensive stance change is fine. No melee dps class (see bear form in cataclysm where it granted 18% dmg reduction) should have flat out passive damage reduction. If you get to keep your damage reduction, then why didnt druids do?

As for the dmg buff to slam, damn. Now you're going to have to decide whether you want to go offensive or defensive (battle/defensice stance). You'll be swimming in rage and hitting even harder when in battle stance.

gone are the days when a warrior actually had to be SMART in order to close in on a mage. today with freedom totems/double freedoms/root breaks/etc and tons of stuns the art of sticking it to the mage is nothing but faceroll.

I remember those days. Patiently predicting when the mage was about to DF so I could pop Spell Reflection. Going ham as soon as I got on the mage hehe >.<

[Kankipappa]

First of all, recklessness damage taken was only 20%. Shield wall gives you a 40% reduction alone without glyph, although being in Defensive Stance and shield wall you'll have over 50% total reduction combined at the moment. Charge stun with 3s means 20s cooldown on it, so after the charge and when leap is on cooldown you have 20s of time to kite and root the warrior to hell. As for slam, it hits exactly the same as 1 stack of heroic strike, so although it does give some stability to burst, there are no real buffs in overall damage. Without that it would have been just a big nerf without compensation for PvE side. Shockwave is going to be 40s so some people will probably replace it, Heroic leap damage will be around ~20k without the glyph, so it will be used only as mobility boost from that on, not for damage.

5.2 Rotation will give out just a lot more overpowers to make the rage gain easier (and tbh, stupidly easier to stay on def stance making the stance nerf needed). Overall burst damage is probably weaker, just easier to hit something because heroic strikes are going to be useless.

Can't say that mages got the toolkit any less stupid tbh with instant ring of frosts with presence of mind etc. Without 12s charges warrior already can have some problems sticking to the target, so while charge 3s stuns are evil, they do have a huge drawback against ferals and mages, especially if you can "juke" the warrior to go out of range from his other teammates and then just slow/root him. But I guess it's better to have class in constant disadvantage than make it a threat to you most of the time. Ferals and their cyclone and they're complaining?

CD usage and so burst damage is still very very strong, but Blizzard doesn't seem to want to address that currently, because in the current direction it could go on that on next pvp-tier resilience is gonna get a good leap up again, making warrior a less threatening and useful pvp-partner overall. Then maybe the problem with freedoms are actually with the paladins, not the warrior itself?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Its ok for every class but warriors to have fun things. I love how 3% regen is bad for warriors when rogues have a 4.5% recuperate that can be put up at any given time given you have the combo points for it (Not that it's hard to get 5.)

Are you comparing a passive heal versus spending your max resource for healing?

[meathead]

It's funny though, because the only way I'm able to kill a warrior as Feral (tried to as boomkin, but my non-rng-burst dmg is dogshit) is by using all of my CDs or using several CDs. While the only way of surviving versus a warrior is to kite, kite and kite.

You warriors have SO many ways that are SO DAMN FORGIVING. Die by the sword allows you to burst without ANY risk (wtb 50% dmg taken when recklessness is active back). Shield Wall simply grants you 50% dmg reduction. Second Wind REWARDS you for being below 35% hp?! I mean, really? Not even to mention all the gap closers you have. Heroic Leap which post 5.2 deals a hefty amount of damage and gives 70% movement speed for 3 seconds. Charge that stuns you for like 3(4?) seconds. Shockwave that stuns every 20 seconds for 4(5?) seconds in frontal cone?! Safeguard removing roots?!?!

Your class is more of a pain in the butthole than a DK is and it rewards dumb play the most out of ALL classes. Make ONE mistake as balance druid? GG, you're dead. Make a mistake as hunter? GG. Make a mistake as DK? Boom, blown up.

Edit: To actually provide SOME feedback. IMO 2nd wind should have an ICD. A 1 minute ICD actually. And it shouldn't grant rage at all, heck, it should actually convert rage INTO health while below 35%... Though that would be just lame huehue. But 2nd wind shouldnt grant rage and it should have a 30-45 or 1 minute ICD and grant 3% hp every 1 second for 10 seconds when your hp hits below 35%. Or change it so that 2nd wind grants 4% hp every 1 second when below 25%.

The defensive stance change is fine. No melee dps class (see bear form in cataclysm where it granted 18% dmg reduction) should have flat out passive damage reduction. If you get to keep your damage reduction, then why didnt druids do?

As for the dmg buff to slam, damn. Now you're going to have to decide whether you want to go offensive or defensive (battle/defensice stance). You'll be swimming in rage and hitting even harder when in battle stance.


I remember those days. Patiently predicting when the mage was about to DF so I could pop Spell Reflection. Going ham as soon as I got on the mage hehe >.<

L2p- ferals are one of the best classes to play,stop crying warriors are not a free kill any more.

"Second Wind REWARDS you for being below 35% hp?!"
how the fuck does it reward a warrior for being close to death?it only works -35%,you can drop a warriors to 35% in a few globals.your statement is just dumb.ice block rewards mages for being close to death/stopping burst. see how dumb that sounds?

"wtb 50% dmg taken when recklessness is active back)"
yeah lets change warrior to the way there were back in warth and cata.even though the game has changed and there is not a need for +damage taken on ability's.

" Die by the sword allows you to burst without ANY risk"
warriors needed it,we lost all dps/brust when we used our only d -cd sw thats on a 5 min cd.

"Shield Wall simply grants you 50% dmg reduction."

lmfao you mean 40% reduction on a 5 min cd,like i said l2p.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 02:22 PM ----------

Are you comparing a passive heal versus spending your max resource for healing?

are you trying to say rouges would never vanish and heal to full with recup?then start the fight over again,then vanish and heal to full,again.2nd wind give warriors what they needed for years.a talent thats stops them form dieing when they step into arena and get ff/trained until they die.for years it was train the warrior and kill him threw his shield wall.2nd wind gives warriors a chance to actually soak up alot of damage,like the class was designed to do.

one a side note,if you have problems killing a warrios in pvp with 2nd wind up.then you need to l2p.

[pkm]

are you trying to say rouges would never vanish and heal to full with recup?

Sorry to butt in here Mr meat head sir, that's not happening anymore as rogues recuperate heals next to nothing now. It doesn't even keep you up when fighting quest mobs.

[Venaliter]

L2p- stop crying warriors are not a free kill any more.

You've been crying Warriors have been an almost-free kill since Launch. You truly *do* live up to your name.

[Flalia4]

Your really going to start comparing class specific ability's...Why not compare the entire class?

And honestly anybody that thinks that warriors will stay weak for longer then a patch never played another class. If warriors get over-nerfed then Blizzard will move heaven and earth to fix warriors but if warriors get over-buffed then they act slowly because they don't want to nerf the class to much.

But the only conclusion some players draw is that ''being bad for a month'' usually means that the entire expansion is ruined

Yeah kind of like how in cata when they nerfed us it was only a month before blizz fixed us right?

[meathead]

Sorry to butt in here Mr meat head sir, that's not happening anymore as rogues recuperate heals next to nothing now. It doesn't even keep you up when fighting quest mobs.

how long did that last in cata?thats what i thought.bleeds like "rend" dont even stop rogues from vanishing any more.you guys got buffed to shit on the ptr and yous till want to nerf warriors only heal,lmfao.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:47 PM ----------

You've been crying Warriors have been an almost-free kill since Launch. You truly *do* live up to your name.

"almost-free kill since Launch."

show me where i said warriors are a free kill?you cant.but i see you slip in almost into your lol statement.i been saying warriors are one bad nerf away from being broken again and they are.maybe you should change your name to something that suits you better and it rims with bowl

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:48 PM ----------

Yeah kind of like how in cata when they nerfed us it was only a month before blizz fixed us right?

yup a month + 12 more.

[Venaliter]

how long did that last in cata?thats what i thought.bleeds like "rend" dont even stop rogues from vanishing any more.you guys got buffed to shit on the ptr and yous till want to nerf warriors only heal,lmfao.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:47 PM ----------



"almost-free kill since Launch."

show me where i said warriors are a free kill?you cant.but i see you slip in almost into your lol statement.i been saying warriors are one bad nerf away from being broken again

That's exactly what I said. Or meant. Perhaps you put it better. I was very tired when I wrote this.

[Hand Banana]

It's funny though, because the only way I'm able to kill a warrior as Feral (tried to as boomkin, but my non-rng-burst dmg is dogshit) is by using all of my CDs or using several CDs. While the only way of surviving versus a warrior is to kite, kite and kite.

You warriors have SO many ways that are SO DAMN FORGIVING. Die by the sword allows you to burst without ANY risk (wtb 50% dmg taken when recklessness is active back). Shield Wall simply grants you 50% dmg reduction. Second Wind REWARDS you for being below 35% hp?! I mean, really? Not even to mention all the gap closers you have. Heroic Leap which post 5.2 deals a hefty amount of damage and gives 70% movement speed for 3 seconds. Charge that stuns you for like 3(4?) seconds. Shockwave that stuns every 20 seconds for 4(5?) seconds in frontal cone?! Safeguard removing roots?!?!

Your class is more of a pain in the butthole than a DK is and it rewards dumb play the most out of ALL classes. Make ONE mistake as balance druid? GG, you're dead. Make a mistake as hunter? GG. Make a mistake as DK? Boom, blown up.

Edit: To actually provide SOME feedback. IMO 2nd wind should have an ICD. A 1 minute ICD actually. And it shouldn't grant rage at all, heck, it should actually convert rage INTO health while below 35%... Though that would be just lame huehue. But 2nd wind shouldnt grant rage and it should have a 30-45 or 1 minute ICD and grant 3% hp every 1 second for 10 seconds when your hp hits below 35%. Or change it so that 2nd wind grants 4% hp every 1 second when below 25%.

The defensive stance change is fine. No melee dps class (see bear form in cataclysm where it granted 18% dmg reduction) should have flat out passive damage reduction. If you get to keep your damage reduction, then why didnt druids do?

As for the dmg buff to slam, damn. Now you're going to have to decide whether you want to go offensive or defensive (battle/defensice stance). You'll be swimming in rage and hitting even harder when in battle stance.

Stuff like this bugs me. You obviously dont play a warrior. Warriors post 5.2 are going to be bottom tier melee with all the changes going through. Losing alot of our mobility and grip/cc, losing damage, losing defensiveness, and gaining nothing. This wouldnt be so bad if literally every other melee wasnt getting decent to substantial buffs (except maybe ferals).

And enough talk about second wind already. We are THE ONLY class that has absolutely 0 healing options (unless you count vic rush which I dont) until we are about to die. Pretty much any war you ask would gladly take a weaker heal up after stun/root/take damage like we used to have.

[Rorke]

Just going to chime in and say that Warriors are probably going to be bottom tier melee next patch. 15% damage reduction from defensive stance is a bigger nerf than people realize not to mention battle fatigue still affecting Second Wind. The Shockwave nerf was needed but Blizzard went way too far by knocking down Warrior survivability.

I'm not even sure if Defensive Stance will be worth sitting into the entire time next patch. They buffed slam and the only real way to use slam is to sit in Battle Stance. The real problem with Arms is that it has way too many globals to fill and Slam is always left out in pvp because of defensive stance and Heroic Strike just "feels" better since its off the gcd. They should literally just remove Slam from the game and just make Heroic Strike hit as hard as Slam.

[Venaliter]

Just going to chime in and say that Warriors are probably going to be bottom tier melee next patch. 15% damage reduction from defensive stance is a bigger nerf than people realize Blizzard went way too far by knocking down Warrior survivability.

Was only 10%, from 25% to 15%. And you still have the best survivability ALL of melee classes. I'm sorry Warriors aren't a one man wrecking ball anymore.

I'm not even sure if Defensive Stance will be worth sitting into the entire time next patch.

That was the whole point - and what they needed to do.

[meathead]

Was only 10%, from 25% to 15%. And you still have the best survivability ALL of melee classes. I'm sorry Warriors aren't a one man wrecking ball anymore.



That was the whole point - and what they needed to do.

and thats where you are wrong-get it threw your head.warriors do not need to stance dance,its out dated and clunky and has been takening out of the game,for the most part.d-stance reduces damage taken at the cost of less rage.want more rage go b-stance.there should be no draw backs on stances,glad to see that gone.d-stance does what it supposed to do,REDUCE damage taken,so whats the problem with it? or are you just pissed you cant global warrios anymore like you could in cata?

[Rorke]

Was only 10%, from 25% to 15%. And you still have the best survivability ALL of melee classes. I'm sorry Warriors aren't a one man wrecking ball anymore.



That was the whole point - and what they needed to do.

The thing is though Warriors have no healing outside of pathetic Second Wind and Rallying Cry. Yeah they have Die By The Sword and Shield Wall, but that's not going to save a them against a caster cleave.

There was nothing wrong with defensive stance in the first place. I felt that it fit well with the class in pvp since its a Warrior and should be harder to kill than a feral, rogue, DK.