Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Rukentuts]

Actually in many jurisdictions they can only be charged with lesser forms of sexual assault because the definition of rape is specific to forceful penetration. Also I know, and my unhappy face is meant to communicate my lamenting and condemnation of this attitude.

Actually in most jurisdictions, the requirement that rape needs penetration has been removed.

[Simca]

"Its your baby" is a distinctly female lie.

There is no relevant comparison available because men cannot bear children, so it isn't really an interesting or important statistic.

[DisposableHero]

Actually in most jurisdictions, the requirement that rape needs penetration has been removed.

I'll admit not having investigated it in detail lately, but the prevailing societal attitude towards it is still dismissal with your choice of shame or mockery as a side dish.

There is no relevant comparison available because men cannot bear children, so it isn't really an interesting or important statistic.

This would only be true if this lie were not devastating both emotionally and financially to the men it is told to. We're not 6 years old, the endgame here is not to go "neener neener neener men are better than women" its to amend laws to protect men from this form of abuse.

[FathomFear]

"Its your baby" is a distinctly female lie.

That's like saying that having a vagina is distinctly a female issue. Well, duh.

The question is, if men could be impregnated do we really think that the situation would be different? Likely not. There would still be assholes that would lie and deceive.

[DisposableHero]

That's like saying that having a vagina is distinctly a female issue. Well, duh.

The question is, if men could be impregnated do we really think that the situation would be different? Likely not. There would still be assholes that would lie and deceive.

No, the question is, should men be protected by law from this form of fraud, or punished for their misplaced trust?

[Ebildays]

I did, all through high school.

But would you do it long term, that is the question I am asking.

So because Cartoon Network had a single scene involving codependency you want to throw it out?

Maybe the Wikipedia entry will be better to your liking?

Please don't treat me like I am daft, I know what codependency is. It was just funny to me that you want people to treat the MRM with respect but then turn around and use Metalocalypse as an example. I work with the elderly and people that have been married for 60+ years and some of those relationships are very much codependent but some of them are not. It is not correct to lump all relationships into one group of "I don't really like you but I don't know how to live with out you".

Like I have said before I believe you are sexual attracted to women Laize but I don't think you like them. Yes, you may tolerate them because you have to if you want to have sex but tolerate is not the same as like and I just do not believe you like women. If you did you would not be so willing to believe the vast majority of women are bad and out to trapt women.

[DisposableHero]

Like I have said before I believe you are sexual attracted to women Laize but I don't think you like them. Yes, you may tolerate them because you have to if you want to have sex but tolerate is not the same as like and I just do not believe you like women. If you did you would not be so willing to believe the vast majority of women are bad and out to trapt women.

Why is it so easy to make the jump from advocating for legal protections to accusations of misogyny?

I love women, I'm sure Laize does as well. We just don't want to be financially and emotionally annihilated because we misjudge the character of a woman we are attracted to. How is that indicative of a broad hatred of women?

[FathomFear]

No, the question is, should men be protected by law from this form of fraud, or punished for their misplaced trust?

If you stick your penis in someone's vagina, you're taking on an element of risk. That risk includes transmission of STDs, an unplanned pregnancy, etc. This is true regardless of whether or not the woman says that she is or isn't on birth control, and it's true regardless of the birth control measures that you yourself are taking. You can't be absolved of this risk because it's always going to be there. Ultimately, if you want a 0% chance of a STD or unplanned pregnancy with a particular woman, your only choice is not to stick your penis in her vagina.

[Rukentuts]

I'll admit not having investigated it in detail lately, but the prevailing societal attitude towards it is still dismissal with your choice of shame or mockery as a side dish.

Yeah, that's a legitimate issue. Most men will just give homosexual slurs toward the victim and claim he should "consider himself lucky". Could you imagine the social stigma and massive psychological damage of telling a female rape victim that?

[Laize]

But would you do it long term, that is the question I am asking.



Please don't treat me like I am daft, I know what codependency is. It was just funny to me that you want people to treat the MRM with respect but then turn around and use Metalocalypse as an example. I work with the elderly and people that have been married for 60+ years and some of those relationships are very much codependent but some of them are not. It is not correct to lump all relationships into one group of "I don't really like you but I don't know how to live with out you".

Like I have said before I believe you are sexual attracted to women Laize but I don't think you like them. Yes, you may tolerate them because you have to if you want to have sex but tolerate is not the same as like and I just do not believe you like women. If you did you would not be so willing to believe the vast majority of women are bad and out to trapt women.

You have absolutely no basis to suggest I dislike women. None. You seem to think that me pointing out when some women are horrible people is misogyny. You think me suggesting protections should exist against those horrible people is also misogyny.

Again, Inigo Montoya. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Grym]

So naive... She will still get money from you till its 18.

That is if you got tracked, I knew serveral people who moved half way across England to deny child that is theirs, and never paid a penny.

[DisposableHero]

If you stick your penis in someone's vagina, you're taking on an element of risk. That risk includes transmission of STDs, an unplanned pregnancy, etc. This is true regardless of whether or not the woman says that she is or isn't on birth control, and it's true regardless of the birth control measures that you yourself are taking. You can't be absolved of this risk because it's always going to be there. Ultimately, if you want a 0% chance of a STD or unplanned pregnancy with a particular woman, your only choice is not to stick your penis in her vagina.

And if another man sticks his penis in her vagina and she lies about it, I assume the consequences too, the law does not adequately protect me. Where is my choice in that?

[Malkhor]

There is no relevant comparison available because men cannot bear children, so it isn't really an interesting or important statistic.

Except that "It's your baby" is much more life obliterating than lies men can tell women. So it IS an interesting statistic. Because the fact even 1% of women would do it is despicable, never mind 51%

[Ebildays]

Why is it so easy to make the jump from advocating for legal protections to accusations of misogyny?

I love women, I'm sure Laize does as well. We just don't want to be financially and emotionally annihilated because we misjudge the character of a woman we are attracted to. How is that indicative of a broad hatred of women?

I am just going off of his posting about women in general which reek of a strong dislike of women. It is one thing to post about the lack of legal protections or even emotional care that men get but it is another to post about how women are liars or out to trapt men. You are laying the blame at the feet of all women and not at the system that keeps this type of mistreatment going.

I cannot see how you can love women but be so willing to believe that most women will screw you over if given half the chance.

"Its your baby" is a distinctly female lie.

" The baby is not mine" would be the distinctly male counterpart to that.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I am just going off of his posting about women in general which reek of a strong dislike of women. It is one thing to post about the lack of legal protections or even emotional care that men get but it is another to post about how women are liars or out to trapt men. You are laying the blame at the feet of all women and not at the system that keeps this type of mistreatment going.

I cannot see how you can love women but be so willing to believe that most women will screw you over if given half the chance.



" The baby is not mine" would be the distinctly male counterpart to that.

I think that the convo has evolved to talking about how the laws are lacking. I haven't been on this thread for all of its pages, but I don't see either of these people as "hating women in general." Thats just silly.

[Simca]

And if another man sticks his penis in her vagina and she lies about it, I assume the consequences too, the law does not adequately protect me. Where is my choice in that?

Yeah I'm fine with creating a law against "married women conceiving with another man without their partner's knowledge and then lying about the father".

The problem is that the burden of proof is unreasonable (proving that the husband was unaware of the true father); the man would have tape recorded conversations in advance of discovering the truth which would be nearly impossible.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yeah I'm fine with creating a law against "married women conceiving with another man without their partner's knowledge and then lying about the father".

The problem is that the burden of proof is unreasonable (proving that the husband was unaware of the true father); the man would have tape recorded conversations in advance of discovering the truth which would be nearly impossible.

I think he was referring to a drug test, which would prove said man isn't the childs fathers. I believe they can DNA test now while its in the womb.

[Ebildays]

You have absolutely no basis to suggest I dislike women. None. You seem to think that me pointing out when some women are horrible people is misogyny. You think me suggesting protections should exist against those horrible people is also misogyny.

Again, Inigo Montoya. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I have never used the word misogyny that is you. And if people keep telling you the same thing then most likely it is how you are getting your views across which tends to be more on the "Womens is evil hide your wallet!" side instead of the "The system is messed up and men are being screwed".

You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.

I think that the convo has evolved to talking about how the laws are lacking. I haven't been on this thread for all of its pages, but I don't see either of these people as "hating women in general." Thats just silly.

I have posted on a few of Laize's boards and the overall picture he gives is that he has a low opinion of women which in my mind equals 'Hey I don't like them very much".

[Destruktion]

You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.

Looks to me like he pointed out a flaw in the system that royally screws over men when they are deceived, a flaw which should be corrected. That doesn't make you rethink your views on males and their role in this world?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I have never used the word misogyny that is you. And if people keep telling you the same thing then most likely it is how you are getting your views across which tends to be more on the "Womens is evil hide your wallet!" side instead of the "The system is messed up and men are being screwed".

You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.



I have posted on a few of Laize's boards and the overall picture he gives is that he has a low opinion of women which in my mind equals 'Hey I don't like them very much".

I cannot say I have posted on many of his threads, so I cannot gauge that. I only meant in this thread, it does not seem like that to me. Its a fair concern to want rights that protects you from things currently "up in the air" like cheating wives demanding child support.