[Holy] Holy power ability usage questions.

[Reith]

Aside from the benefits that EF brings over LoD (not even talking about the fact that it brings significant throughput increases), kicking someone for doing something you consider wrong, without doing research to back up your claims, seems rather single-minded or petty, and I hope your guild learns from the experience.

It wasn't taken lightly and he wasn't really "kicked," per se. He just didn't do what it took to save people during particularly high burst aoe damage. He wasn't playing well with the other healers, basically.

[Yzyz]

@ Quellious, you have 4 set+you're in 10M(where EF really shines), LOD is amazing in 25m and EF blanketing becomes much less effective. My strategy with EF is to have it always up on tanks and when damage effects 5 targets or less in the raid. You should always use your free heals effectively.

Yea, unfortunately, you don't have your facts straight. EF blanketing is more effective in a 25m setting moreso then a 10m. You'll almost* never hit EF on all 25 targets at the same time. You can easily have all 10 HoTs rolling in a 10 man and thereafter, all you are doing is refreshing the HoT instead of putting more out there. LoD is just too weak to justify using it over EF in a consistent AoE scenario. Now, if it is high burst damage to a few targets at a time, then I would prioritize LoD over EF. For example, H Spirit Kings. Qiang's strike hits everyone in Melee for a significant amount. Being able to time your Holy Radiance to go off just as he strikes, Holy Shock, Holy Radiance then LoD for incredible burst healing. This is coming from my personal 25m experience.

[Vanel]

While EF blanketing is sometimes good, who's healing the tank? You'd rather have a shaman or priest stop casting their raid heals to heal the tank?

Imo don't EF blanket, using EF is less mana efficient. As strong as you guys think EF might be, it's not that much healing and as far as i'm considered tanks don't take damage that can be healed by HoTs at all.

EF blanketing is be better with T15 4 piece.

[silverhatred]

While EF blanketing is sometimes good, who's healing the tank? You'd rather have a shaman or priest stop casting their raid heals to heal the tank?

wat

Unless you have hashed this out before hand, its both healer's responsibility to heal the tank. If I call out "Plea'ing!" the other healer watches tanks. If the other healer calls out "mana hymning" then I watch the tank or if he's spirit shelling. Also, in 10m, you EF who is low over EF'ing someone who doesn't have EF. I went through my logs using mainly EF one week and using mainly LoD one week and after averaging the overheal on both and the average tick + initial heal EF was about 15% ahead of LoD. This is without counting the amount of times less than 6 people were within 30yrd range of me at the time, which is a kind of overheal that is impossible to track in logs, so the difference is even greater. EF also makes your mastery last longer on the target so its hardly ever wasted.

Imo don't EF blanket, using EF is less mana efficient.

wat

They both cost the same amount of mana... 0.

As strong as you guys think EF might be, it's not that much healing and as far as i'm considered tanks don't take damage that can be healed by HoTs at all.

wat

This is more or less fight dependent but you also act as if the hots are the only thing that beacon transfer. Guess what, if you are EF blanketing and the tank spikes, you can now EF the tank or maybe, *gasp* use holy shock on him or something.

EF blanketing is be better with T15 4 piece.

wat

Its way better with the T14 4pc because of the greatly increased amount of EF's per minute you are pushing out. If anything the T15 4pc will be making us beacon switch the entire fight and the tank will be much less stable.

[nightfalls]

Unless you have hashed this out before hand, its both healer's responsibility to heal the tank. If I call out "Plea'ing!" the other healer watches tanks.

Everyone should watch tanks yes, but I'd wager his guild assigns specific tank healers, just for organization. That's what he's probably stuck doing.

They both cost the same amount of mana... 0.

I'm wondering what he meant by that, I think he's referring to people needlessly CS'ing for HP?

Its way better with the T14 4pc because of the greatly increased amount of EF's per minute you are pushing out. If anything the T15 4pc will be making us beacon switch the entire fight and the tank will be much less stable.

If you're assigned to a tank, I'm going to guess you have the Beacon full-time on him, then the EF hots will transfer over more. But you do get less EF's out with T15 than T14.


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Basically, I'm sort of wondering the reasoning behind the statements the last guy made also, if anything because I feel he's getting something I don't. If it's his actual armory I'm seeing, he probably has a lot more experience than I do.

[Isiildur]

As a 9/16(H) 10 man holy paladin, the only time I switch to LoD usage is during sustained aoe burst damage (Arcane Velocity, Rain of Blades, Elegon final phase, Force and Verve, Rain of Blades, Death Blossom). And even in those scenarios, if you have an aoe healing cd used its most likely better to EF a low health target that might be out of range of the priest/shaman/druid.

[nightfalls]

Arcane Velocity, Rain of Blades, Elegon final phase, Force and Verve, Rain of Blades, Death Blossom

You heal through Death Blossom? o.O

If anything I would just BoP a non-warlock caster.

[Isiildur]

You heal through Death Blossom? o.O

If anything I would just BoP a non-warlock caster.

Some people still LoS, some don't. As long as people use personal cds through it (including healthstones) it hasn't been an issue. The panda generally dies before it completes the cast anyway.

[nightfalls]

Some people still LoS, some don't. As long as people use personal cds through it (including healthstones) it hasn't been an issue. The panda generally dies before it completes the cast anyway.

/shrug


Seems like on HM it hits twice as hard, which would shit on people most likely, but yeah, tanks can stand in it, and it's still boppable as far as I know.

[Isiildur]

/shrug


Seems like on HM it hits twice as hard, which would shit on people most likely, but yeah, tanks can stand in it, and it's still boppable as far as I know.

Of course! We're still quite a bit away from heroic sha, so we're just trying to get farm content down as quickly as we can.

[Vanel]

wat

Unless you have hashed this out before hand, its both healer's responsibility to heal the tank. If I call out "Plea'ing!" the other healer watches tanks. If the other healer calls out "mana hymning" then I watch the tank or if he's spirit shelling. Also, in 10m, you EF who is low over EF'ing someone who doesn't have EF. I went through my logs using mainly EF one week and using mainly LoD one week and after averaging the overheal on both and the average tick + initial heal EF was about 15% ahead of LoD. This is without counting the amount of times less than 6 people were within 30yrd range of me at the time, which is a kind of overheal that is impossible to track in logs, so the difference is even greater. EF also makes your mastery last longer on the target so its hardly ever wasted.


wat

They both cost the same amount of mana... 0.


wat

This is more or less fight dependent but you also act as if the hots are the only thing that beacon transfer. Guess what, if you are EF blanketing and the tank spikes, you can now EF the tank or maybe, *gasp* use holy shock on him or something.


wat

Its way better with the T14 4pc because of the greatly increased amount of EF's per minute you are pushing out. If anything the T15 4pc will be making us beacon switch the entire fight and the tank will be much less stable.

Considering he said 25 man in the topic ill ignore the 10 man idea of your first comment.

It's not only the constant usage of a global to melee the boss(not saying I don't use CS at all), but in the terms of tank stability, EF not an efficient tank heal. Using Word of Glory with sacred shield and casting into the tank is much better in that case and it gives the tank a less chance of dying if you are constantly casting into him. With Word of glory, holy shock, and holy light you constantly heal the tank. Holy shock, CS, holy shock, EF someone is not going to keep the tank alive especially if you are assigned to it. I guess what I'm explaining to you is that we are not AoE or HoT healers, we are the worst of them even sometimes to druids. Holy shock and an EF are not going to keep your tank alive sorry.

In terms of what I was talking about with the T15 4 piece was about the transfer through beacon where the amount transfered to the beacon target, hopefully the tank, if you are using EF especially if you keep an EF on yourself and the tank. The Increased healing transferred to your Beacon of Light target by 20% and the EF buff of casting it on yourself is going to help it a lot in terms of tank healing.

If you are saying switching beacon the entire fight because you want to FoL or DL someone to get a Holy power, don't do that it's not worth it.

[silverhatred]

Considering he said 25 man in the topic ill ignore the 10 man idea of your first comment.

It's not only the constant usage of a global to melee the boss(not saying I don't use CS at all), but in the terms of tank stability, EF not an efficient tank heal. Using Word of Glory with sacred shield and casting into the tank is much better in that case and it gives the tank a less chance of dying if you are constantly casting into him. With Word of glory, holy shock, and holy light you constantly heal the tank. Holy shock, CS, holy shock, EF someone is not going to keep the tank alive especially if you are assigned to it. I guess what I'm explaining to you is that we are not AoE or HoT healers, we are the worst of them even sometimes to druids. Holy shock and an EF are not going to keep your tank alive sorry.

In terms of what I was talking about with the T15 4 piece was about the transfer through beacon where the amount transfered to the beacon target, hopefully the tank, if you are using EF especially if you keep an EF on yourself and the tank. The Increased healing transferred to your Beacon of Light target by 20% and the EF buff of casting it on yourself is going to help it a lot in terms of tank healing.

If you are saying switching beacon the entire fight because you want to FoL or DL someone to get a Holy power, don't do that it's not worth it.

If you are assigned to purely tank healing. Then yes, SS instead of EF is the way to go. But due to beacon paladins make much better spot raid healers and throughput jockeys. Put the resto sham on the tank while keeping down healing rain. Tank healing gets easier when the holy paladin is not on the tank, waste of a beacon imo. But if your raid is filled with resto druids and monks and and priests instead then most of what I am saying will not even matter to you, but it also means you really haven't been paying attention to what we have been talking about.

The core issue here is that a single EF provides more healing than a single light of dawn.

We suffer on spread heavy aoe damage burst, but excel at sustained aoe spread damage due to EF.

I think holy paladins that macro beacon to FoL or DL are terrible and lazy, what I am talking about is switching it to target 2 that needs heals while healing target 1.

Show me logs of you healing H garalon with light of dawn, and I will show you logs of me healing H garalon with EF, with the pve 4set no less.