Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[FusedMass]

This has to be a fucking joke?

We're discussing the rights of men. No one is discussing the rights of women here. Pretty much everyone here agrees that women get to decide what they do with their bodies.

The subject of discussion pertains to finances surrounding child support.


What is disgusting is the knee-jerk feminism that so many people on the internet show symptoms of. "Let's not look if the argument is valid, they're saying something bad about women so it must be mysogyny, fucking male swines".

Because cussing in a thread is always a way to get someones attention and show your clear intentions. That I still say Mens Rights is a horrible name for the thread. If your talking about the finances around a child. Why you would name it certain to men or even women's rights is beyhond me. It stinks of being biased when you label one gender over the thread.

And cussing does nothing expect show a person being frustrated unable to communicate in a well thought out way last knee jerk reaction more like reaction some would have against taking their guns.

[holyevil44]

men should have a say on abortion by some people argument in here...after all 1/2 of the baby is from HIS sperm o wait nvm the only choice men have 1) suicide,+- 20 year in the hole in term of money or going to a other country never coming back to escape paying that what happen wen you let 1 gender have anything and everything they want in term of right i am talking about men and women here we are all greedy mother fucker after all.

[Spectral]

Remember that the premisse is that the woman tricked your into parenthood.

That's a fucking stupid premise that's quite rare in practice. I suppose I should know better than expecting people to not pick the most extreme outlying examples to argue about though.

---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 05:30 PM ----------

The subject of discussion pertains to finances surrounding child support.


What is disgusting is the knee-jerk feminism that so many people on the internet show symptoms of. "Let's not look if the argument is valid, they're saying something bad about women so it must be mysogyny, fucking male swines".

My argument is actually that the child is the one with the right to the father's money. Someone's has to pay for children, and I see no valid reason that society should pick up the entirety of a tab that a father refuses to cover.

[Cybran]

My argument is actually that the child is the one with the right to the father's money. Someone's has to pay for children, and I see no valid reason that society should pick up the entirety of a tab that a father refuses to cover.

The woman makes her decision to have a child or not (abortion or adoption) based on the biased premise that the man will support her for 21 years. When the woman is made aware that the man doesn't want this child and will not pay for it, her decision becomes different.

She can still keep her bodily autonomy (the most stupid concept ever concieved by humans) and keep the child, but the man will have no financial obligation towards her. This way women that stop taking the pill/poke holes won't have the legal power to enslave men for 21 years.

Why is this so hard to understand? More options for men to defend their financial autonomy doesn't infringe on woman's rights. It infringes the rights of gold diggers and stupid teen sluts that try to chain their teen "love".

[Deleted]

That's a fucking stupid premise that's quite rare in practice. I suppose I should know better than expecting people to not pick the most extreme outlying examples to argue about though.[COLOR="red"]

The premisse may be stupid but otherwise there is no argument.
Noone here should be defending deadbeats.

[theWocky]

Basically what the article shows is that modern attitudes to sex and fidelity need to be re-thought.

Its unreasonable to expect your partner to stay faithful to you for one. I don't expect my girlfriend to be faithful to me, I merely expect her to be subtle about it and not catch any STDs or pregnancies while she is at it.

I agree with this too... and... what's good for the goose... is... good for the gander too. Too much emphasis is placed on the "sacredness" of sex in my opinion.

[Spectral]

She can still keep her bodily autonomy (the most stupid concept ever concieved by humans)

This tells me everything I'll ever need to know about you.

[Forfax]

This tells me everything I'll ever need to know about you.

How is that revelant to the topics and what he said?
You should actually answer the post instead of making useless remark.

[Deleted]

This tells me everything I'll ever need to know about you.

His argument is still the best solution to this problem, barring the discussion when (pre/post-intercourse) the father should make his intentions towards a child clear

All these fucking emotional responses, dayumm.

[iggie]

Because cussing in a thread is always a way to get someones attention and show your clear intentions. That I still say Mens Rights is a horrible name for the thread. If your talking about the finances around a child. Why you would name it certain to men or even women's rights is beyhond me. It stinks of being biased when you label one gender over the thread.

And cussing does nothing expect show a person being frustrated unable to communicate in a well thought out way last knee jerk reaction more like reaction some would have against taking their guns.

Why should "mens rights" carry any different meaning than "female rights"? Even bringing up the MrM will cause a lashing out of a lot of posters/people you meet and talk to in the real world.

[Deleted]

Because cussing in a thread is always a way to get someones attention and show your clear intentions. That I still say Mens Rights is a horrible name for the thread. If your talking about the finances around a child. Why you would name it certain to men or even women's rights is beyhond me. It stinks of being biased when you label one gender over the thread.

And cussing does nothing expect show a person being frustrated unable to communicate in a well thought out way last knee jerk reaction more like reaction some would have against taking their guns.

If you can't handle the word fuck then you're welcome to leave the thread.

We're labeling it men's rights because this has to do with the inequality in the financial responsibility of parents towards the child, where the man's rights are clearly lacking. Women have multiple tools available to them to prevent having to support an unwanted child (abortion, adoption). The man has no tools and is completely at the mercy of the woman's choices. This leads to many men having their life ruined due to child support payments that they must execute for 20 years.

Worst of all, sometimes this is because a woman intentially decieves a man by saying she's using contraceptives. OP claims this is very prevalent. Because of this, a fertile woman who has gained the trust of a man can at any moment force him into 20 years of financial slavery and he will almost definitely lose custody in court as well.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That's a fucking stupid premise that's quite rare in practice. I suppose I should know better than expecting people to not pick the most extreme outlying examples to argue about though.
My argument is actually that the child is the one with the right to the father's money. Someone's has to pay for children, and I see no valid reason that society should pick up the entirety of a tab that a father refuses to cover.

With this logic, abortion should not be covered for irresponsible females either.

Because cussing in a thread is always a way to get someones attention and show your clear intentions. That I still say Mens Rights is a horrible name for the thread. If your talking about the finances around a child. Why you would name it certain to men or even women's rights is beyhond me. It stinks of being biased when you label one gender over the thread.

And cussing does nothing expect show a person being frustrated unable to communicate in a well thought out way last knee jerk reaction more like reaction some would have against taking their guns.

Thats fine. You're the same poster that said oncgress should be all women because men can't control their hormones. No offense, but I don't think you're someone who should be commenting on mens rights, when you are clearly sexist, biased, and a feminist.

The fact of the matter is, we wouldn't need mens right, if FEMINISM didn't exist over something more appropriate, like HUMAN EQUAL RIGHTS. The reason this thread is named 'mens rights' is because almost nothing here discusses any change in a womans life or rights. This deals directly with laws regarding men, and how these laws affect them.

No, cursing is not effective all the time, but it gets an emotion across, maybe that what you post is so ridiculous, that it confounds people.

[Spectral]

How is that revelant to the topics and what he said?
You should actually answer the post instead of making useless remark.

His argument is still the best solution to this problem, barring the discussion when (pre/post-intercourse) the father should make his intentions towards a child clear

All these fucking emotional responses, dayumm.

He stated that female bodily autonomy is "the most stupid concept ever conceived". That leads me to believe that engaging further with said individual is completely futile. I have no reason to believe that someone with such an ideal is a reasonable person, or even a person that I don't regard as fundamentally evil.

[Forfax]

With this logic, abortion should not be covered for irresponsible females either.




Thats fine. You're the same poster that said oncgress should be all women because men can't control their hormones. No offense, but I don't think you're someone who should be commenting on mens rights, when you are clearly sexist, biased, and a feminist.

The fact of the matter is, we wouldn't need mens right, if FEMINISM didn't exist over something more appropriate, like HUMAN EQUAL RIGHTS. The reason this thread is named 'mens rights' is because almost nothing here discusses any change in a womans life or rights. This deals directly with laws regarding men, and how these laws affect them.

No, cursing is not effective all the time, but it gets an emotion across, maybe that what you post is so ridiculous, that it confounds people.

Amen to that , your post are so biased and preposterous.
You're an insult to the male gender.

[Spectral]

I see no valid reason that society should pick up the entirety of a tab that a father refuses to cover.

With this logic, abortion should not be covered for irresponsible females either.

Can you spell this out at some greater length? I don't get how you arrived at this conclusion. Having an abortion saves money.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Amen to that , your post are so biased and preposterous.
You're an insult to the male gender.

Wait how is that? Biased for who and against who? Preposterous how? Because I think laws/society should work for gender equality, and now solely for one gender? I wouldn't name a group 'Dark haired people are awesome' if the intention was to make a group about how light/dark haired people are awesome.

Spamming insults (especially with no real debate points at all) is against the forum rules.

Can you spell this out at some greater length? I don't get how you arrived at this conclusion. Having an abortion saves money.

But they aren't free. And society is footing the bill for an irresponsible choice.

[Spectral]

But they aren't free. And society is footing the bill for an irresponsible choice.

If a woman is pregnant, the options are not to roll back time and make her unpregnant or not. The options are abortion or a child, and abortion is a much cheaper option. The situations you're equating are not analogous.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If a woman is pregnant, the options are not to roll back time and make her unpregnant or not. The options are abortion or a child, and abortion is a much cheaper option. The situations you're equating are not analogous.

Again, society is footing the bill for an irresponsible behavior. Is that only a defense up to a certain cost?

[Spectral]

Again, society is footing the bill for an irresponsible behavior. Is that only a defense up to a certain cost?

My recommendation is for people to not have undesired pregnancies. I'd like to not deal with that. OK, now let's assume that it's already happened. What would you like the solution to be? My call is that if the kid isn't wanted, it's best that we make sure it's not born and cover the cost of an abortion if the parents can't afford it. If it is born, the parents should cover as much of the costs as they reasonably can, with society picking up the remaining cost if necessary.

Do you disagree?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

My recommendation is for people to not have undesired pregnancies. I'd like to not deal with that. OK, now let's assume that it's already happened. What would you like the solution to be? My call is that if the kid isn't wanted, it's best that we make sure it's not born and cover the cost of an abortion if the parents can't afford it. If it is born, the parents should cover as much of the costs as they reasonably can, with society picking up the remaining cost if necessary.

Do you disagree?

Of course not, I have no problem with society helping. That is not what has been the main discussion here.