1.07 looks great

[Deleted]

You know most movies/story are redone right? it's a real common thing in fact. If that is your complaint on what makes it bad it's not a very good one.

It was definitely bad. Tyrael becoming human was probably the single worst thing about Diablo 3. And the game mechanics really suck, so that says something.

Blizzard probably went "yeah, you guys like Tyrael? yeah, we got something good for him! We're going to make him a worthless loser! oh, and while we're at it, we're going to make angels and demons completely obsolete compared to humans! YEAH!"

What a way to piss on your own lore, by robbing the entire point of a game of it's value. Diablo was always about angels and demons, now it's about humans. Yeah, just like every other game.

[Noctifer616]

What a way to piss on your own lore, by robbing the entire point of a game of it's value. Diablo was always about angels and demons, now it's about humans. Yeah, just like every other game.

Considering humans are the offspring of angels and demons they aren't really far from the point.

[Orange Joe]

It was definitely bad. Tyrael becoming human was probably the single worst thing about Diablo 3. And the game mechanics really suck, so that says something.

Blizzard probably went "yeah, you guys like Tyrael? yeah, we got something good for him! We're going to make him a worthless loser! oh, and while we're at it, we're going to make angels and demons completely obsolete compared to humans! YEAH!"

What a way to piss on your own lore, by robbing the entire point of a game of it's value. Diablo was always about angels and demons, now it's about humans. Yeah, just like every other game.

Why is it the worst thing? I thought it was bad ass. He gave up his immortality to help us fight evil. What did you expect as the hero? To sit back and let everyone else fight? Not very good game there is it.


It''s about humans overcoming their shortcoming and becoming something more.

[Enkidulgaa]

Actually no you can't. You can argue about the CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE of certain art versus the other, but there is no objective meter of which art is better or worse.

Well there you have it guys. The whole art community is apparently stupid as hell and should put childrens doodles next to paintings from artists because appearently this

is equal in technique, style and overall skill to this


I can see your point. A game that completely changes the atmosphere and tone of the story from its precedessor is totally ok. Hmm yeah. Metzen can do no wrong and its not like he didnt ruin the story of any other game he touched noooo.

[Orange Joe]

Well there you have it guys. The whole art community is apparently stupid as hell and should put childrens doodles next to paintings from artists because appearently this


I can see your point. A game that completely changes the atmosphere and tone of the story from its precedessor is totally ok. Hmm yeah. Metzen can do no wrong and its not like he didnt ruin the story of any other game he touched noooo.

Why is it bad? I mean a girl gets possessed an then you need to turn around and kill her. Yup totally happy go lucky story.



Also what did metzen have to do with D3?

[Enkidulgaa]

Why is it bad? I mean a girl gets possessed an then you need to turn around and kill her. Yup totally happy go lucky story.



Also what did metzen have to do with D3?

He writes the story of every Blizzard game?
He is credited for working on the story of D3 on IMDb

[namelessone]

Well there you have it guys. The whole art community is apparently stupid as hell and should put childrens doodles next to paintings from artists because appearently this
[snip]
is equal in technique, style and overall skill to this
[snip]

I can see your point. A game that completely changes the atmosphere and tone of the story from its precedessor is totally ok. Hmm yeah. Metzen can do no wrong and its not like he didnt ruin the story of any other game he touched noooo.

I never said it's "equal in art, style, technique". Way to put words in my mouth to prove your point. Two pieces of art don't have to be of the same STYLE, or use the same TECHNIQUE to be considered good. Frankly, if you are bringing in "art community", maybe I should point out that this:


Is considered a A LOT more important and valuable by art community in general, than, for example, this:

[Glorious Leader]

I never said it's "equal in art, style, technique". Way to put words in my mouth to prove your point. Two pieces of art don't have to be of the same STYLE, or use the same TECHNIQUE to be considered good. Frankly, if you are bringing in "art community", maybe I should point out that this:

Is considered a A LOT more important and valuable by art community in general, than, for example, this:

In a PoMo sense it's probably is but unfortunately for the developers D3 can't hide behind being PoMo. It is of the same TYPE of story telling as it's predecessor, the same art but obviously a massive failure by comparison. You don't put the mona lisa up against say diamond dust shoes or campbells soup. It isn't a question of cultural significance because the childs painting really can't have cultural significance. It's a question of quality. The childs painting may have personal significance but really the mona lisa is a better painting by any measure. In a similar aspect you may personally find d3s story to be amazing, you may also find piss christ to be the best painting ever that does not mean it actually is. Especially when d3 is compared to say d2. Another piece of art in a similar vein and similar genre.

Ultimately it's just poorly written. To paraphrase Harlan Ellison, Chris Metzen "couldn't write for sour owl poop". In fact it really feels like he wrote it over the weekend, pool side with the kids having a beer. It doesn't feel like serious craft at all and frankly I'd be just as happy if they hadn't bothered. It's so bad it detracts from the experience.

[Deleted]

I can see your point. A game that completely changes the atmosphere and tone of the story from its precedessor is totally ok. Hmm yeah. Metzen can do no wrong and its not like he didnt ruin the story of any other game he touched noooo.

It might also be true that he is a bad writer bar, lets say, something like Starcraft, Warcraft III...and all the other shit "he touched"

To paraphrase Harlan Ellison, Chris Metzen "couldn't write for sour owl poop".

Ellison is allowed to be an asshat, he has the credentials.

Has the hate moved from Wilson to MetZen now?

[Whitepepper]

In a PoMo sense it's probably is but unfortunately for the developers D3 can't hide behind being PoMo. It is of the same TYPE of story telling as it's predecessor, the same art but obviously a massive failure by comparison. You don't put the mona lisa up against say diamond dust shoes or campbells soup. It isn't a question of cultural significance because the childs painting really can't have cultural significance. It's a question of quality. The childs painting may have personal significance but really the mona lisa is a better painting by any measure. In a similar aspect you may personally find d3s story to be amazing, you may also find piss christ to be the best painting ever that does not mean it actually is. Especially when d3 is compared to say d2. Another piece of art in a similar vein and similar genre.

Ultimately it's just poorly written. To paraphrase Harlan Ellison, Chris Metzen "couldn't write for sour owl poop". In fact it really feels like he wrote it over the weekend, pool side with the kids having a beer. It doesn't feel like serious craft at all and frankly I'd be just as happy if they hadn't bothered. It's so bad it detracts from the experience.

In a more broad and general sense, what is the purpose of telling someone that what they like is inferior to what you like?

[Glorious Leader]

In a more broad and general sense, what is the purpose of telling someone that what they like is inferior to what you like?

Their isn't any. However since I can't get Metzens ear this is one of the few avenues available to discuss the game. Every time we do that some guy somewhere pipes up about how much he as an individual loves the story. Like his childs painting for example. I have no desire to tell them they're wrong and that their childs painting is what it is and their opinion stinks but a few of them repeatedly pop up in this thread like whack a moles and insist on the quality of the games writing, which isn't the case. Especially relative to the predecessor games which weren't amazing stories either mind you but they never detracted from the game play. The story in D3 is of such poor quality that it makes you stop playing and think about how shitty it actually is.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:33 PM ----------

It might also be true that he is a bad writer bar, lets say, something like Starcraft, Warcraft III...and all the other shit "he touched"




Ellison is allowed to be an asshat, he has the credentials.

Has the hate moved from Wilson to MetZen now?

Jay Wilson didn't write the story. Metzen did. In this particular instance and in this particular aspect of the game Metzen deserves a nod. The games failures are many, they are legion in fact. It can't all be Jays fault.

[Whitepepper]

Their isn't any. However since I can't get Metzens ear this is one of the few avenues available to discuss the game. Every time we do that some guy somewhere pipes up about how much as an individual loves the story. I have no desire to tell them they're wrong and their opinion stinks but a few of them repeatedly pop up in this thread like whack a moles and insist on the quality of the games writing, which isn't the case.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:33 PM ----------



Jay Wilson didn't write the story. Metzen did. In this particular instance and in this particular aspect of the game Metzen deserves a nod. The games failures are many, they are legion in fact. It can't all be Jays fault.

How is quality writing defined and what is the absolute measure?

[Deleted]

But wait lets go back on how Metzen is a bad writer.

Because both Starcraft and Warcraft III are both great examples of his god awful writing skills are.
Whatever your gripes with the game are or flaws it may have going back and saying this or that individual is a bad professional based on arbitrary samples:

Metzen can do no wrong and its not like he didnt ruin the story of any other game he touched noooo.

one can't just let this kind of shit slide.

[Glorious Leader]

How is quality writing defined and what is the absolute measure?

Mostly by how well the writers utilize techniques. For example foreshadowing is used but it lacks any subtlety or depth to it. They just hit you in the face with the obvious fact that leia "has this power" and it lets her shoot red beams out of her hands. It really doesn't leave any mystery to what she is.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:39 PM ----------

But wait lets go back on how Metzen is a bad writer.

Because both Starcraft and Warcraft III are both great examples of his god awful writing skills.

Then he's lost his ability to write. Or hes lost the desire. In either case D3 is a poorly written story that was half assed through and through. In so far as starcraft 2 I enjoyed it for the most part, certainly better than diablo 3 but their was stuff I didn't like. It was a much better story although a bit generic. OH LOOK ANOTHER PROPHECY! AND IT'S THE VILLAIN YOU SAY!!!! WHAT A TWIST M.NIGHT! Having said that its better than d3 by miles. I was never pissed off at it.

[Lysah]

-Enchant and flamewall, seriously?

Not a hardcore player, I see. That explains a lot.

Infinity was a core item for anyone worth anything, if you couldn't afford it you should have stopped playing D2. If it was baby's first toon and you had literally nothing, picking up a lower resist wand was perfectly acceptable and people who actually wanted to succeed at the game certainly did that.

[Whitepepper]

Mostly by how well the writers utilize techniques. For example foreshadowing is used but it lacks any subtelty or depth to it. They just hit you in the face with the obvious fact that leia "has this power" and it lets her shoot red beams out of her hands. It really doesn't leave any mysteruy to what she is.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:39 PM ----------



Then he's lost his ability to write. Or hes lost the desire. In either case D3 is a poorly written story that was half assed through and through.

Is the Diablo story supposed to be a mystery? Leia being Diablo is no less less obvious than the Dark Wanderer being Diablo in Diablo 2. Earlier you mentioned that the art of D2 is superior to D3. Is the story also superior and if so in what way?

[Glorious Leader]

Is the Diablo story supposed to be a mystery? Leia being Diablo is no less less obvious than the Dark Wanderer being Diablo in Diablo 2. Earlier you mentioned that the art of D2 is superior to D3. Is the story also superior and if so in what way?

The dark wanderer isn't comparable for the simple fact that we don't know everything about the dark wanderer in the first act. We literally know everything about Leia in the first act and it becomes fairly obvious what's gonna happen in the end. In fact for someone NEW coming to the story we don't even really know that hes the player from the first game. He's a much more mysterious figure than leia who is obvious from the first act. I mean you don't even see his face. He doesn't say anything. Leia doesn't shut up. She tells you everything from the minute you get her into your party. It's not even interesting or well written dialogue either. SHES BORING. Theirs a few moments when the companions say something funny but on the whole I wish they would shut the fuck up to. I'm so tired of the templar making inquiries about the enchantress. In fact it's so bad I recall people asking for an option to shut them the fuck up. The dark wanderer doesn't even have an actual name, you just call him the DARK WANDERER. Certainly leaves alot more to your imagination than Leia from the block. You must be kidding if you think they're on the same level.

[Whitepepper]

The dark wanderer isn't comparable for the simple fact that we don't know everything about the dark wanderer in the first act. We literally know everything about Leia in the first act and it becomes fairly obvious what's gonna happen in the end. In fact for someone NEW coming to the story we don't even really know that hes the player from the first game. He's a much more mysterious figure than leia who is obvious from the first act. I mean you don't even see his face. He doesn't say anything. Leia doesn't shut up. She tells you everything from the minute you get her into your party. It's not even interesting or well written dialogue either. SHES BORING. Theirs a few moments when the companions say something funny but on the whole I wish they would shut the fuck up to. I'm so tired of the templar making inquiries about the enchantress. In fact it's so bad I recall people asking for an option to shut them the fuck up. The dark wanderer doesn't even have an actual name, you just call him the DARK WANDERER. Certainly leaves alot more to your imagination than Leia from the block. You must be kidding if you think they're on the same level.

We'll just have to disagree.

[Deleted]

Not a hardcore player, I see. That explains a lot.

Infinity was a core item for anyone worth anything, if you couldn't afford it you should have stopped playing D2. If it was baby's first toon and you had literally nothing, picking up a lower resist wand was perfectly acceptable and people who actually wanted to succeed at the game certainly did that.

Oh look I can use my mercenary to make my self gimping seem less masochistic. Still doesn't change the fact that both Meteor and FW are "obvious" choices for faster than fuck mobs in act5 or uber runs...so hardcore.
I'll back down on CL since it's more of a preference not to deal with unreliable dmg range.

Indeed baby's first toon would rather use Doom or Reaper's Toll for merc.

Fact remains that if you wanted to farm D2 you would have to something use else than gimmicky builds like Meteor or FW. Fact remains that if you want to farm D3 on MP3 or above you will use CM or a variant of it. That doesn't mean something like Hydra or AO builds don't work just like...say Meteor or FW in D2.

Ofc if by hardcore you mean playing the game at it's most masochistic there's a "hardcore" mode dear, you could also play enchantress at the same time for added harcoreness. Got to love these self titled "hardcore" forum people.

Then he's lost his ability to write.

How the hell do you "lose" your ability to write? Severe concussion?

[Glorious Leader]

How the hell do you "lose" your ability to write? Severe concussion?

Or the loss of desire. I'm not gonna shit on the mans professionalism at his job but d3 reeks of phoning it in.