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  1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by zerocoolhack View Post
    I will assume its a public school so they probably cant tip because its the governments money. If the money came from some sort of fundraiser then yes it was a dick move.
    I doubt this considering that people in service positions (waitresses, etc) are legally allowed to make less than minimum wage if it is a tipped position. There is that expectation that people in tipped positions get tipped.

    OP that sucks. All I have to say though is that karma is a bitch and something somewhere down the road will make up for this, I base this on bartending and waiting tables all through undergrad to pay for textbooks/rent/tuition, people who dick over others tend to be miserable people with sad lives and ultimately you will run into someone who will give you a nice tip out of nowhere when you least expect it.

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    So basically, they are doing their job? And I'm expected to tip them because it's in my best interest, otherwise I'm going to get shitty service. Pretty sure that's being held hostage. Glad I don't dine out much or go to bars at all, sounds like a social money pit.
    Well, no, being held hostage is a circumstance where you have to do something.

    Yes, they're basically "doing their job". This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp though. Again, put yourself in the shoes of a bartender - you look down to pour a pint, look up and there's a guy at each side of the bar trying to get a drink. Do you serve the guy first that you know tips every time or the guy that never tips?

  3. #1343
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yes, this is an obvious way to freeride in the tipping system. The same is true at restaurants, especially in big cities where there's basically no chance of ever seeing the people again if you don't want to.
    So the customer who isn't building up a relation is gaining over the regular customer who isn't tipping (but is giving the boss regular profit). Completely backwards.

    I think the way we're paying here (bit higher price but we only tip if we get good service) and the way I was treated at my friend's pizzeria, with a free slice every once in a while as regular customer, works much better.

    And no, I don't get the point you're making in the pub situation. I guess it is because I see it from my boss POV (I work for him, he pays me, you know). If my boss would notice I treat one customer like he's like... a ghost... ignoring him... then he'd get pissed off at me. People want to be treated fairly it is that simple. Waitresses here who are working in a pub actually ask "who's turn is it?" and then customers point at the majority wins. That's how it goes here. I can't fathom a waitress just discriminates based on tip, all I can find that is bloody rude. The customer is king, if you treat him like a dog, he runs to the competitor. Neither your boss nor you wants that regardless of if he tips or not!!

  4. #1344
    Mechagnome Fitzgerald77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Just own your inner cheapness, do what you like, and recognize that servers will almost uniformly regard you as a prick. That's fine, it's entirely your call, just don't delude yourself.
    As for the me being in Canada comment, it was merely me being sarcastic to someone saying "I don't know how things work where you are but that's how they work here." I'm not an idiot, I realize that there are assholes and nice people no matter where you go in the world.

    Once again, I tip to people that I believe deserve it and work for it. I completely fail to see how that makes me cheap. Leaving this thread now because some of you are starting to make my head hurt and just don't understand at all definition of a tip. And as I said before in my very first post it's very sad to see someone whine and complain about not getting a tip. Seeing people trying to justify that a tip should be given every single time is even worse in my opinion as well.

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  5. #1345
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    I doubt this considering that people in service positions (waitresses, etc) are legally allowed to make less than minimum wage if it is a tipped position.

    OP that sucks. All I have to say though is that karma is a bitch and something somewhere down the road will make up for this, I base this on bartending and waiting tables all through undergrad to pay for textbooks/rent/tuition, people who dick over others tend to be miserable people with sad lives and ultimately you will run into someone who will give you a nice tip out of nowhere when you least expect it.
    Ah, karma. Maybe karma was being a bitch to OP in this very situation instead of karma going to pay back to OP eventually. How would you know?

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    So the customer who isn't building up a relation is gaining over the regular customer who isn't tipping (but is giving the boss regular profit). Completely backwards.

    I think the way we're paying here (bit higher price but we only tip if we get good service) and the way I was treated at my friend's pizzeria, with a free slice every once in a while as regular customer, works much better.
    I've been both places and I see no fundamental difference in the net outcomes. The route that we get there is different, but the outcome is essentially the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    And no, I don't get the point you're making in the pub situation. I guess it is because I see it from my boss POV (I work for him, he pays me, you know). If my boss would notice I treat one customer like he's like... a ghost... ignoring him... then he'd get pissed off at me.
    At no point did I suggest ignoring anyone. I'm emphasizing that this is a triage situation - two people have essentially equal "right" to getting service at a given second. Every single person is going to the tipper first. You know that's true, it's why you invented the "ghost" situation instead of addressing the actual hypothetical.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Well, no, being held hostage is a circumstance where you have to do something.

    Yes, they're basically "doing their job". This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp though. Again, put yourself in the shoes of a bartender - you look down to pour a pint, look up and there's a guy at each side of the bar trying to get a drink. Do you serve the guy first that you know tips every time or the guy that never tips?
    Who got their first? If its the guy who doesn't tip, and you serve the guy who does tip first, you're being a dick and shouldn't be surprised if the other guy just leaves, I certainly would. Tipping shouldn't guarantee service, it should reward excellent service.

  8. #1348
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Well, no, being held hostage is a circumstance where you have to do something.

    Yes, they're basically "doing their job". This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp though. Again, put yourself in the shoes of a bartender - you look down to pour a pint, look up and there's a guy at each side of the bar trying to get a drink. Do you serve the guy first that you know tips every time or the guy that never tips?
    That guy that never tips because you are going to get a tip regardless from the other guy. Because you know he tips every time.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  9. #1349
    I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person in the thread that goes to bars. Who got there first isn't always or even often apparent.

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person in the thread that goes to bars. Who got there first isn't always or even often apparent.


    I've already admitted I've never been to a bar, why pay someone $8 for something I can serve myself in the comfort of my own home for 1/4 of the price? And, I don't have to tip to get service, either.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    That's why a tipping jar works good. You simply work hard, treat the customer with respect, and he may or may not tip. You don't have to fight over who's going to get which customer because in the end all waitresses have mutual interest in getting tip for the pot.

    You're basically playing divide and conquer with your customers and worse it isn't communicated clearly who's winning.
    The problem with the tip jar is that its subsidizing the lower end servers. Why should someone work harder than another person when they are just going to get the same amount in the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    So let me get this straight. If I just order a pizza from a different pizzeria every time, then I won't get a bad name as a bad tipper, and I can just save myself the 10-15%. In half a year you forgot I didn't tip (I was very polite) and I can order again.
    Yeah, you could get away with that in most places. That's why when I delivered I started a record keeping system for other drivers. I assume they still use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    By the way did you ever get to deliver 20 pizzas to someone and when you arrived at the address and they opened the door they didn't order anything? You expect that to be a prank don't you? Might've been that angry customer who got a cold pizza with spit in it.
    I never said I spit in anything. But no, we never got something like that.

  12. #1352
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I've been both places and I see no fundamental difference in the net outcomes. The route that we get there is different, but the outcome is essentially the same.
    No, it isn't because in your system the tip is socially enforced. It is expected. The height isn't, and you use that apparently to influence the way you treat the customer.

    Here, if I notice I am being discriminated its very simple I go to the competitor. You may argue you don't need me, well I really don't think so in this day and age of recession.

    And if I had a good month in my company and I got treated well then yeah you'll get a tip. If I don't feel like it for whatever reason, you won't get one, but since you're not expecting it at all you're still humble.

    So no, the outcome isn't the same. Financially maybe, but the psychology is different. In your case the employees have much more power. I rather see a boss take responsibility of his business and whip his employees a lil' bit more (not bad thing to do with a bunch of teenagers). Heck, you know stuff like employee of the month, that's a good way to play your employees against each other, and show new ones a role model.

    At no point did I suggest ignoring anyone. I'm emphasizing that this is a triage situation - two people have essentially equal "right" to getting service at a given second. Every single person is going to the tipper first. You know that's true, it's why you invented the "ghost" situation instead of addressing the actual hypothetical.
    There is no such thing as both customers being ready at the exact same time, and you know that's true. Else, I'd move towards the one closest to at the place I am standing, only to save time. Why? The fellow who always tips, will tip anyway.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    I've already admitted I've never been to a bar, why pay someone $8 for something I can serve myself in the comfort of my own home for 1/4 of the price? And, I don't have to tip to get service, either.
    The price really depends where you are. Putting that aside, some people (many people even!) like social settings.

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahknaten View Post
    Alot of people seem to be seeing the tip as paying the wage of the worker when its not the case, (in the US). The tip is paying for the extra service you get from the waiter or waitress, such as running around to get every little extra thing or request someone has, or keeping their drink full. These are extras, if you dont want these things or want to tip, then go to a drivethru window and get your food and go.
    Please explain to me what a waiter/waitresses job is, if not doing those things? Are they paid their wage by their employer just to clear their busy schedules and show up to stand around?
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No, it isn't because in your system the tip is socially enforced. It is expected. The height isn't, and you use that apparently to influence the way you treat the customer.

    Here, if I notice I am being discriminated its very simple I go to the competitor. You may argue you don't need me, well I really don't think so in this day and age of recession.

    And if I had a good month in my company and I got treated well then yeah you'll get a tip. If I don't feel like it for whatever reason, you won't get one, but since you're not expecting it at all you're still humble.

    So no, the outcome isn't the same. Financially maybe, but the psychology is different. In your case the employees have much more power. I rather see a boss take responsibility of his business and whip his employees a lil' bit more (not bad thing to do with a bunch of teenagers). Heck, you know stuff like employee of the month, that's a good way to play your employees against each other, and show new ones a role model.
    I'd say the employees have more power in a system where the know the customer isn't going to be able to penalize or reward them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    There is no such thing as both customers being ready at the exact same time, and you know that's true. Else, I'd move towards the one closest to at the place I am standing, only to save time. Why? The fellow who always tips, will tip anyway.
    I find it really hard to believe you frequent bars. It's not like you walk up and slap the bar and say, "first!". People walk up, frequently arrive at the same time while others are being served, and you have sort of a fake place in nonexistant line. The priority is always going to go to the guy that's not tight with cash; this is pretty well known in the States, I don't really get why people are arguing it.

  16. #1356
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    It's bullshit simple because you should not be required to report your tips as they are not wages, they are customer offered gratuity and the people who decided to tax tips were complete slime buckets.
    The minute I can not report 4/5 of my wages as taxes is the day waitresses can. Even though they mostly don't report them, anyway.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  17. #1357
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    The problem with the tip jar is that its subsidizing the lower end servers. Why should someone work harder than another person when they are just going to get the same amount in the end?
    First, in say grocery store, its all logged you know who works how long where and such. And grocery store is also a type of service (doubt you tip there, right?). However because the boss is also working in the pub, and if the boss notices a waiter who's slacking, why even attempt to do that?

    Yeah, you could get away with that in most places. That's why when I delivered I started a record keeping system for other drivers. I assume they still use it.
    Wow really you did? Awesome. If you'd do that here and your boss would find that out, you'd be fired. If customer would know about it, you could get successfully sued (and they don't really do much plea bargin in Europe). Wanna know why? It is against privacy law to record customer data like that. You're not allowed to process it either. Only for purpose strictly related to your job. Now I know your country doesn't take privacy always very strict so I don't know how its there with the privacy laws ...

    I never said I spit in anything. But no, we never got something like that.
    OK, you didn't, various of the other MMOC waiters/servers/drivers though.

  18. #1358
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    This statement right here is exactly why I don't like tipping.

    Instead of giving everyone excellent service because it's your job, you hold people hostage with shitty service because they don't give you what you want.
    Yeah, fuck that noise.

    If that shit happens to me, guaranteed their boss will get so sick to death of hearing my voice he'll make things happen.

    Do your fucking jobs and do them right, with a fucking smile and all this indignation. Maybe then you'd be worth tipping.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  19. #1359
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Ah, karma. Maybe karma was being a bitch to OP in this very situation instead of karma going to pay back to OP eventually. How would you know?
    I don't! But I'd like to think OP didn't do anything to deserve such crappy karma unless proven otherwise.

    Of course you are right however.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The price really depends where you are. Putting that aside, some people (many people even!) like social settings.

    Nothing wrong with going to the bar if that's what gets you going, I was merely pointing out why I've never been.

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