RNG chance for more Eler Charms

[Deleted]

Implementing gold coins was a bad idea from day 1. Not only will you be dissapointed when a certain item won't drop from a boss, but now you do dailys in order to most likely be dissapointed for the 2nd time. I understand why blizzard made the decition as people where complaining about items never dropping. It does sound smart on paper, but judging by the respond from the WoW community the coins should have been removed from the game. The only thing they promote are dailys which has made alts quite unhappy in MoP. Being able to receive more coins every week is not the way to go as a lot of people WILL feel forced to try and get these everyday.

If we can care less about loot and instead focus more on actually downing that one boss and then keep on progressing, then these coins would not even matter anymore, and people would not care as long as they didn't actually need an extra item because of bad DPS and so on.

People are unhappy because they roll with the wrong attitude. You shouldn't celebrate an item dropping before you have it in your hands, and I wish that one day people will realize that we're lucky to even have Elder Charms.

And Drathos (hi guildie lol), you don't have to do any of the dailies at all. Think about it. You get 3 coins a week, and the old dailies having "a chance" to drop them too does not mean that others will get 7 a week while you're still at 3. On top of that, when you spend your coin on a boss, the chance that you get loot (that you actually want) is pretty small, so I wouldn't say you're not competitive just because you don't roll coins. Some people just like to have an extra chance to get an item outside of EPGP and loot councils. It's a personal choice, and I highly doubt it affects your trial in Audacity (I've never even heard the officers discuss it).

[Deleted]

WoW is a game, every thing inside WoW is therefore optional. If you are in a guild that is "hardcore" and require you to do dailes to get coins and you don't want to, then mabye you aren't "hardcore" enough for that guild. If your guild doesn't mind if you do them or not, well then it's your own issue. Besides so far I have only 1 item from using a coin, and it was useless to me, coins don't mean good loot.

[tussee]

Or how about not making it "1st X every day" but instead letting you get as many Lesser Charms from dungeons/scenarios/Brawler's Guild/pet battles/dailies/raid bosses/elite(champion) mobs in Pandaria per day as you want(obviously dailies are still once per day) and then just keep the 90 Lesser Charm turn-in per week as the only way to get Elder Charms?

If that happened I would be having the exact same discussion with another person stating that the game has too many chores.
That person will feel that he don't have the time to do "dungeons/scenarios/Brawler's Guild/pet battles/dailies/raid bosses/elite(champion) mobs in Pandaria" to get 90 Charms.

there will allways be people complaining about the decisions that Blizzard makes.
there will allways never be anyone praising the changes Blizzard make.

[Maelstrom51]

People are unhappy because they roll with the wrong attitude. You shouldn't celebrate an item dropping before you have it in your hands, and I wish that one day people will realize that we're lucky to even have Elder Charms.

I don't celebrate elder charms - I loath them. I would rather they didn't exist, than feel compelled to do daily quests, or otherwise feel gimped.

And Drathos (hi guildie lol), you don't have to do any of the dailies at all. Think about it. You get 3 coins a week, and the old dailies having "a chance" to drop them too does not mean that others will get 7 a week while you're still at 3. On top of that, when you spend your coin on a boss, the chance that you get loot (that you actually want) is pretty small,

My own elder charms have gained the raid over 15 items. Statistically above average, I know, but overall across the whole group they still make a pretty huge difference.

[Ethador]

You don´t have to get the charms, they are only a bonus, and the extra coins form crates aren´t bad as they are a bonus source.
Just stop complaining and be satisfied with what you have.

[Maelstrom51]

If that happened I would be having the exact same discussion with another person stating that the game has too many chores.
That person will feel that he don't have the time to do "dungeons/scenarios/Brawler's Guild/pet battles/dailies/raid bosses/elite(champion) mobs in Pandaria" to get 90 Charms.

If dailies give the same number of charms as now, and the weekly requires the same number of charms, there is no way adding more options would ever add more chores.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 12:34 PM ----------

You don´t have to get the charms, they are only a bonus, and the extra coins form crates aren´t bad as they are a bonus source.
Just stop complaining and be satisfied with what you have.

They are only not mandatory in the same sense as gems and enchants are not mandatory. Sure, you can do the content without them, but you're gimping yourself by doing so.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 12:38 PM ----------

WoW is a game, every thing inside WoW is therefore optional. If you are in a guild that is "hardcore" and require you to do dailes to get coins and you don't want to, then mabye you aren't "hardcore" enough for that guild. If your guild doesn't mind if you do them or not, well then it's your own issue. Besides so far I have only 1 item from using a coin, and it was useless to me, coins don't mean good loot.

Its not an issue of my guild requiring charms. Its an issue of doing chores or feeling gimped. I don't like being gimped.
In the same way that most people won't raid without enchanting their gear, I won't raid without getting charms. Even if I hate it.

And I'll keep voicing my opinion until its changed.

[Deleted]

I don't celebrate elder charms - I loath them. I would rather they didn't exist, than feel compelled to do daily quests, or otherwise feel gimped.


My own elder charms have gained the raid over 15 items. Statistically above average, I know, but overall across the whole group they still make a pretty huge difference.

I'm pretty sure I'd just be repeating myself if I wrote a new reply. We just disagree then

[khalltusk]

You are over inflating the issue maelstrom.

You have had good RNG as far as coins are concerned. Yes they "CAN" help but you can also not get a single thing from them for a long time in which case if you do heroic/normal raiding you would most likely have your slots filled anyway.

I've done charms in LFR mode and so far I have had 2 items or so from it. The rest have been via normal drops and upgrades etc. The reason why these extra chances are charms will be more prominent from the new faction is blizzard wants you to progress the storyline. Each daily is linked to that factions story. So chances are they want you to see this content which is gated behind the dailies.

Gems and enchants are not mandatory you can jump into heroics and lfr no problem. But to do normal mode raiding and certainly heroic raiding you will want to be optimised. The charms are not required for normal mode raiding or LFR - not even heroic they can give you a chance at loot if you are lucky nothing more. I would not force people to farm charms nor feel pressured to do so. it takes about 15-20mins to do my dailies and I earn enough charms to get 3 rolls per week. doing a dungeon run to get the same amount of charms would take longer if they added 3-5 charms per run to make it in line with dailies.

I would not want to see charms added to pet battles - they are fun on their own and I would dislike seeing them giving raid rewards.

[bigrichard]

I want to be able to log in and stand around in Halfhill and get my elder charms that way since I don't like doing anything else. I don't know why Blizzard continues to ignore this play style. There are tons of us that want everything the game has to offer without having to the stuff we don't like to do. More options are always good for the health and longevity of the game.

[Jerion]

Yo dawg, I heard you like rng, so we put rng on your rng tokens so you can rng to rng more.

[Deleted]

Gems and enchants are not mandatory you can jump into heroics and lfr no problem. But to do normal mode raiding and certainly heroic raiding you will want to be optimised. The charms are not required for normal mode raiding or LFR - not even heroic they can give you a chance at loot if you are lucky nothing more. I would not force people to farm charms nor feel pressured to do so. it takes about 15-20mins to do my dailies and I earn enough charms to get 3 rolls per week. doing a dungeon run to get the same amount of charms would take longer if they added 3-5 charms per run to make it in line with dailies.

It's all about your raid group's ambitions. I can understand that top guilds would bitch at you for not obtaining and using coins to optimize your character, the same way you're expected to have viable professions and properly modified gear in most guilds, but any guild that's not aiming for world/server first or a close follow-up has no real reason to bother with this.

[Tradu]

People are unhappy because they roll with the wrong attitude. You shouldn't celebrate an item dropping before you have it in your hands, and I wish that one day people will realize that we're lucky to even have Elder Charms.

And Drathos (hi guildie lol), you don't have to do any of the dailies at all. Think about it. You get 3 coins a week, and the old dailies having "a chance" to drop them too does not mean that others will get 7 a week while you're still at 3. On top of that, when you spend your coin on a boss, the chance that you get loot (that you actually want) is pretty small, so I wouldn't say you're not competitive just because you don't roll coins. Some people just like to have an extra chance to get an item outside of EPGP and loot councils. It's a personal choice, and I highly doubt it affects your trial in Audacity (I've never even heard the officers discuss it).

Oh, I don't think it'll affect my trial. It's more a case of me not wanting to let people down, so I do my best and expect others to do the same. And my example of 10 coins vs 3 was an extreme example, but the point was that a RNG chance to get more coins over the current weekly "cap" just annoys me a lot.

[Maelstrom51]

I want to be able to log in and stand around in Halfhill and get my elder charms that way since I don't like doing anything else. I don't know why Blizzard continues to ignore this play style. There are tons of us that want everything the game has to offer without having to the stuff we don't like to do. More options are always good for the health and longevity of the game.

I agree. As long as you're putting in the same amount of effort, you should not have to do content that you don't like for the rewards.

[khalltusk]

It's all about your raid group's ambitions. I can understand that top guilds would bitch at you for not obtaining and using coins to optimize your character, the same way you're expected to have viable professions and properly modified gear in most guilds, but any guild that's not aiming for world/server first or a close follow-up has no real reason to bother with this.

Thats the point its down to you as a player. If your raid group says you need x y and z. And you dislike any of those parts then that raid group is not for you. While I can understand some people dislike dailies, the alternative is to give it to another source (and heroics will be the most likely candidate)

I could only see that working if they do limit you to say 25 coins per day, 5 per run. You do 5 heroics and you have your coins for that day. you spread that over 5 days and you have it good. doing it so you can burst all 90 on the first day would lead to burn out as some groups would keep doing them over and over in a few hours and have nothing to do.

[Maelstrom51]

I could only see that working if they do limit you to say 25 coins per day, 5 per run. You do 5 heroics and you have your coins for that day. you spread that over 5 days and you have it good. doing it so you can burst all 90 on the first day would lead to burn out as some groups would keep doing them over and over in a few hours and have nothing to do.

You can already nearly get the 90 lesser charms per week in one day, why should it be different for other sources?

[Deleted]

At least we'll have the guaranteed three charms from turn-in (and I hope those dailies will give silver coins - cos I'll cringe if I have to do old content for them!)
Yes, lets implement even more RNG's and make loot tables cluttered again, so players have to waste time for whole patch for that one item that will refuse to show up.
I'll remember T14 for a long time. 3.5 months of raiding (with all those tools threw at me - LFR, valor, coins etc.) and I still have blue weapon, at nearly 500 item level equipped. What's the point of having seven chances on a weapon per reset when they all fail for ten resets in a row? This got bit ridiculous here, I have better chance at obtaining RARE MOUNT than freaking raiding weapon? Because that's what it is - took me 30 runs for Al'Ar, 4 runs for Azure Drake, 113 runs for Raven Lord, 10 runs for Hawkstrider, 72 bosses total for Mammoth...and 80+ rolls for T14 weapon which still failed to produce any result.

[Deleted]

Oh, I don't think it'll affect my trial. It's more a case of me not wanting to let people down, so I do my best and expect others to do the same. And my example of 10 coins vs 3 was an extreme example, but the point was that a RNG chance to get more coins over the current weekly "cap" just annoys me a lot.

We haven't seen the droprate yet, so I'm not going to argue that the difference is close to none, but I can't imagine Blizzard wanting to give people a huge advantage from doing those dailies. Usually even a 0,01 % droprate is enough to motivate people.
As for not wanting to let people down, as said the chance of you getting something you want to use is pretty small. I agree that you should do your best and expect the same from your fellow raiders, but there's a limit to what you can expect from the raiders in a semi-hardcore guild. From experience, a lot of Audacity's raiders only log on for raids, and nothing else. The reward simply doesn't outweigh the time/effort spent on dailies for some people, and for that level of raiding, I personally think it's acceptable. In the end, gear doesn't make you a better player.

[Soth]

I eventually just quit putting so much emphasis on converting my lesser charms. One of my goals for this expansion is to get exalted with all of the factions (not because of gear or anything, just because I want to) so I have a ton of lesser charms by this point. If I remember great, if not...oh well.

My friend and I do LFR every week and I got tired of the disappointment as I've not received anything other than gold from the extra roll. My friend, however, has received two items from doing it. Once I felt myself being frustrated by it, I decided that it was better for my enjoyment just to remove my problem.

[Haizer]

They make rewards for every event equal with the difficulty to obtain them. I'll lay it out for you:

Heroic dungeons: Quite easy; You get 80 VP once a day and 40 VP each consecutive time you run a random. You also get a nice chunk of gold for doing the randoms. Another reward is it ignores locks so you are not limited to the number of dungeons available. You do not get these rewards for single queueing for specific reasons like only doing the easy one every day, which would hurt people gearing up. Now, they can add in Lesser Charms(I shall call these LCs) to the rewards, but they will need to remove some of the current reward for it. 40 VP once a day and 20 VP per consecutive run(people would hate that for a few extra coins), or remove the gold entirely(it's not enough to just cut in half and considering it good), which neither will be popular at all.

Raiding: Your reward is equal to the amount of effort you and your guild put into this task. As it is a group collaboration, the reward does not always equal the amount of effort you yourself put into it. They could do something here, but it would cause a fuss with people who aren't as progressed(coins per kill or for clearing the instance of any difficulty increasing as difficulty increases). LFR wise it would be a nice reward, especially if your class is needed(healers I'm looking at you). Make bags for wanted classes that give a few LCs if you queue for it. Though that will cause a fuss with tanks and DPS. Seeing as how tanks aren't needed anywhere near as much as DPS(DPS queues have been half of my tank counterpart), and DPS are plentiful. Healers would be the only ones getting them really.

Pet battle dailies: Extremely easy, and you have a ton to do in one day. Now, you get a LARGE sum of gold for doing the quest line apparently(I'm not 100% on this, but I heard 3000g for beating all trainers in the quest line). The dailies reward you with pet things, like a fetch ball and upgrade to rare stone(also a small chance at a pet) as well as some gold. They could give you a random chance at either gold or a bag(just like coins! and LFR loot!) upon winning along with coins. People would hate that, it would make getting the pet out of the bag even harder than it is now. They would allow you to queue up for random battles to get coins, but that wouldn't be very good, seeing as how people will complain about other people pet stacking(there are pets out there with annoying gimmicks). This would turn ugly, and if it doesn't in that sense it would become the prime way for people to gain LCs, which in turn would make pet battling(going to go by the WoW community definition here) "mandatory".

Brawlers Guild: Medium difficulty, but there is one big problem here...This is a completely optional part of the game that is there for the reward of killing tough monsters solo. It is there for the achievements and that is all. If you considering it fun, awesome. Though I don't see them giving any type of reward beyond small bags of junk from wins. Though if they do, this could bring up the rng factor of getting an easy mob vs. getting a hard mob and costing you gold when you die(I seen a guy that wiped to Ixx 70+ times over a 3 day period. He couldn't grasp the concept of moving out of the cleave, AND he was a mage). It would cause problems, and people would cry. Either that or the reward will be too much and become(again WoW community definition) "mandatory", or too little and people will complain that the reward isn't worth the effort(which there should be no reward beyond that little sack you get anyways).

Challenge Modes: Hard, and exactly as their name says...a challenging mode. It isn't meant to be fun for everyone either. It is meant for those that want a challenge and not need a raid of 10-25 to get one. Challenge modes are the most efficient way to get VP so far this expansion as well. Most people can do them in minimal time(10-20min), and you get a substantial amount of VP from it. If you get a bronze in them all you get a title, silver a mount, and gold you get xmog gear. Now they can half the amount of valor gained through CMs if they want in order for people to gain LCs, but then the people that run CMs weekly to cap will complain. Not to mention the amount of LC you would need to get in order to even it out would probably be in the range of about 8-10. In that sense it would become(WoW community definition) "mandatory".

PVP: Not going to touch this. It crosses into the "Pvp stuff for PvE stuff", people will complain, and it will be a mess.

Now onto the big picture. The reason they have it daily exclusive right now is because they want people out in the world. If you make something easier to do, the community will do it because they are lazy(there are those that won't take the easy way all the time, but a very large majority will). Why do you think they put the tier vendor, rep vendors, and pvp vendors so far out in the middle of nowhere? So people will have to go out into the world.

Sure your guild makes getting coins a priority for raiders, but let me put this past you. You spent upwards of 2 hours a week doing dailies right? Medium ground estimation on my part, considering it takes me 5min a day for 7 days to get 70 coins(add in another 10min for GL dailies to finish off). That is some serious time every week!(My time spent every week getting raid ready is less than 1 hour, but I don't expect people to blow through dailies like me seeing as I have more gear than most) I have taken my time doing reputations, and only doing 1 quest hub at a time. You don't need to do all of your dailies on Tuesday and Wednesday in order to get 90 coins, you can take your time with it.

One last thing: Your reward for doing dailies is 5 VP(makes the VP grind shorter if you're just in it for coins), a small sum of gold(adds up though!), 1-2 LCs, and a small amount of rep for the reputation you are doing the dailies for(not all of them have that exact makeup of rewards obviously). I think that is a little too much for 1 daily, but considering the repetitive nature of dailies I guess you can classify them a rank higher than their objectives difficulty.

Edit: Forgot to say, sorry for the huge wall of text.

[Maelstrom51]

We haven't seen the droprate yet, so I'm not going to argue that the difference is close to none, but I can't imagine Blizzard wanting to give people a huge advantage from doing those dailies.

The chance of a charm giving loot is 15%. The average person would have gotten 8-9 items using charms by now, assuming they get them every week since release.