1. #2221
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    How is that equality? You're both equally guilty to creating the situation.
    Exactly you prove my point - how is it equal when only the woman has the right to abort - the man should be able to abort the child as well then. All I want is some form of equality and you bring out the biological shit but seem to forgot it takes male sperm. Also I don't think carrying a baby for 8-9months is a big deal at all. After all many women do it every year and the process is very natural.

    Also the pictures were there to enlighten you, which you claim to already be. I know for a fact a lot of people have no idea so much was formed in 10weeks.

  2. #2222
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    In the perfect setting you really don't philosophize about this kind of thing.
    If you aren't "philosophizing" about the consequences of your actions, you deserve no sympathy.

    So now the MRM supporters in this thread are claiming that you should have sex without protection (because it's "perfect") and get out of the consequences. This is why I no longer can associate myself with these people.

  3. #2223
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    "Big discount"? I'm going to ignore that since it is far from the truth.

    Then I will proceed to reiterate that people that stick their dick in crazy without protection really don't warrant any sort of sympathy from me.
    Big is a subjective term. The lower you are on the income scale the more substantial it tends to be. If you've ever struggled to make ends meet, I'm sure you can imagine what a few hundred dollars a month in extra bills would do to you, or what a few hundred dollars a month in extra income would mean. It is designed to be substantial to those in need. Its not entirely about sympathy either. Society spends an awful lot of money enforcing these arrangements, money that would probably be better spent just directly ensuring the children of these cases don't live in poverty.

    Women also don't tend to advertise "hi I'm Joanne and I care more about having a cute cuddly baby than I will I ever care about you or what you want". Its really a non-starter on the dating scene. Baby crazy tends to be a hard trait to spot effectively.

  4. #2224
    - Charlie Sheen: As part of his 2011 divorce settlement from Brooke Mueller, Sheen was to pay $55,000 per month for the support of their twin sons. In June 2011, a Los Angeles judge ordered Sheen's former bosses at Warner Bros. Television to garnish the money from any payments made to the former "Two and a Half Men" star.

    - Nas: In December 2009, the rapper was ordered to pay more than $51,000 per month to his ex-wife, singer Kelis, and their son.

    - Martin Brodeur: In March 2009, the New Jersey Devils goalie was ordered to pay his ex-wife $500,000 a year in alimony until 2020, as well as $132,000 in annual child support.

    - Russell Simmons: In February 2009, the hip-hop mogul agreed to pay $40,000 per month in child support for his daughters Ming and Aoki with ex-wife Kimora Lee Simmons. The payments were to continue until both girls reach 19 1/2.

    - Britney Spears: In July 2008, months after erratic behavior landed her in the hospital and saw her father appointed conservator of her estate, the pop singer reached a settlement with ex-husband Kevin Federline that had her paying him $20,000 per month in child support.

    - Rap impresario Sean "Diddy" Combs was ordered in 2005 to pay about $19,000 a month in support to former girlfriend Misa Hylton-Brim for the care of their son Justin.

    - Revlon Inc. Chairman Ronald Perelman was ordered in 1999 to pay more than $12,000 a month to ex-wife Patricia Duff for the support of daughter Caleigh


    Enough said/

  5. #2225
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Big is a subjective term. The lower you are on the income scale the more substantial it tends to be.
    The lower you are on the income scale, the less child support you also have to pay.

  6. #2226
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    I hate to break it to you but not all women are gold digging girls. In fact in some houses women bring home the paycheck. In my family for example both my Step Dad and my Mother both equally worked at the same job and did the same amount of work. You painting this picture that women want to get knocked up and bill the dad for the bill.
    No, I'm painting this picture that it does happen while you and Daren choose to ignore the existence of females who are corrupt in mind, while we all agree there are males who are corrupt in mind (and already legally held against for it)

    You took personal responsibility when you climbed into bed. Now because of a messed up child hood you want to ban all women you encounter from having child support. However that is not reality. In reality when you do this ..if a woman goes to court and needs finances..and you are the Father. You must pay depending on your income (Most judges don't make you pay if you do not have the job) perhaps you should take personal responsibility aka a condom if you do not want to be stuck with the bill.
    Nope, keep trying to make my arguments for me though. That's ALL you've done the entire damn thread. That is why you get called a feminist, because you can't read to save your life. People like Spectral and others have shown they can actually disagree with the argument, not ignore it, stick words in the other sides mouth, then argue against those words and look down on them.

    It matters if you have kids or not because you are freaking out. Yes I use term freaking out based on your responses to other posters about some type of doomsday where this woman is going have your kid and you get stuck with the bill. You cannot consider for a moment you too might end up as a couple. Let's say you break up five years down the road. Does that void her from getting Child Support.
    If you checked my post history you'd know that I stated a couple times I wouldn't abandon a child under any logical circumstance. Keep trying once again to make my own arguments for me though!

    You need to have concrete legit argument to why men should not have to pay child support. So far all I heard is story's about females lying to men (in your words) to get knocked up.
    How about because its sexist and in England it's often normal that a woman wouldn't have to pay child support because shes the woman? It's so rare that a woman would lose custody that she desired here that they have to practically be a child abuser.

  7. #2227
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    Exactly you prove my point - how is it equal when only the woman has the right to abort - the man should be able to abort the child as well then. All I want is some form of equality and you bring out the biological shit but seem to forgot it takes male sperm.
    I've said several times pregnancy cannot be equal. The burden of a pregnancy is placed solely upon the woman, she is the one who have to deal with the consequences of a pregnancy, the man is in no danger should complications arise, the woman is.

    What you want is control over someone elses body. A man does not have an uterus, why should a man have the right to an organ which he do not possess as a male?
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    After all many women do it every year and the process is very natural.
    Many women also die every year during pregnancy, during child birth/after child birth due to complications. But yeah, the risk of dying is not a big deal because you said so, I'd rather much live, tyvm.
    Last edited by mmoc506e44f6eb; 2013-01-24 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #2228
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    No, I'm painting this picture that it does happen while you and Daren choose to ignore the existence of females who are corrupt in mind, while we all agree there are males who are corrupt in mind (and already legally held against for it)



    Nope, keep trying to make my arguments for me though. That's ALL you've done the entire damn thread. That is why you get called a feminist, because you can't read to save your life. People like Spectral and others have shown they can actually disagree with the argument, not ignore it, stick words in the other sides mouth, then argue against those words and look down on them.



    If you checked my post history you'd know that I stated a couple times I wouldn't abandon a child under any logical circumstance. Keep trying once again to make my own arguments for me though!



    How about because its sexist and in England it's often normal that a woman wouldn't have to pay child support because shes the woman? It's so rare that a woman would lose custody that she desired here that they have to practically be a child abuser.
    The amusing thing is how quick people are to paint me as a feminism because I agree that men would pay their fair share. I am in fact male so it's strange that I would be considered against my own gender. In fact that is nothing more then a distraction from your overall point. Which you have none. You keep saying you wouldn't leave a child under any situations.

    However you also claim you should not be forced pay child support.

    That with all due respect is not up to you. It depends on the woman. Her income level. Your income level. Even if you have joint custody if she takes care of the child most if not all the time. Then is it truly too much to ask for you to pay a little more as an investment to your own child.

    It's not that I choose to ignore it. I accept your view that women are corrupted minds who sole intention to get knocked up despite wishes of the father. I just dismiss it because its not true. It's not reality. I have three sisters. Men are much much more likely to try to get a woman knocked up due no fault of her own then men are.

    You are just spinning the same recycled arguments. That some women are corrupted therefore most of them must be. That's like saying some men are corrupted so all of them must be. I don't choose to ignore rational arguments that make sense. Logically speaking wanting to drop from paying child support without seeing a judge or knowing the situation.

    Is not in reality.

  9. #2229
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    If you aren't "philosophizing" about the consequences of your actions, you deserve no sympathy.
    Ehm I don't have to philosophize because I carry mine for him around all the time. I never tried woman condom though. But we got 2 options!!

  10. #2230
    P1: Males can be feminists
    P1,2: Just because you can't read or comprehend my argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist

    P2: I claim a general male should not be forced to pay child support where it is not necessary, and that child support should not be based on your own gender.

    P3: This is your problem. Why is it all up to the woman? It's not HER child in this hypothetical, it's OUR child. If I don't want to have that kid she can raise it by herself. if she AND her new partner (when involved) can't afford it I can help. I should not be forced to pay out everything I have before they even touch their wallets.

    P4: I never stated "women are corrupted minds" I stated "some women". Some. I didn't say most, or many, or lots, or all. I said some. Learn to read.

    I never stated at any point most must be, you have said that the entire time, by yourself, with noone agreeing. Arguing with yourself either shows lack of comprehension, a mental disorder, or guilt.

  11. #2231
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Ehm I don't have to philosophize because I carry mine for him around all the time. I never tried woman condom though. But we got 2 options!!
    Uuh.. would it not be easier to just get on the pill if you're in a relationship rather than carrying condoms around? <.<

  12. #2232
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    - Charlie Sheen: As part of his 2011 divorce settlement from Brooke Mueller, Sheen was to pay $55,000 per month for the support of their twin sons. In June 2011, a Los Angeles judge ordered Sheen's former bosses at Warner Bros. Television to garnish the money from any payments made to the former "Two and a Half Men" star.

    - Nas: In December 2009, the rapper was ordered to pay more than $51,000 per month to his ex-wife, singer Kelis, and their son.

    - Martin Brodeur: In March 2009, the New Jersey Devils goalie was ordered to pay his ex-wife $500,000 a year in alimony until 2020, as well as $132,000 in annual child support.

    - Russell Simmons: In February 2009, the hip-hop mogul agreed to pay $40,000 per month in child support for his daughters Ming and Aoki with ex-wife Kimora Lee Simmons. The payments were to continue until both girls reach 19 1/2.

    - Britney Spears: In July 2008, months after erratic behavior landed her in the hospital and saw her father appointed conservator of her estate, the pop singer reached a settlement with ex-husband Kevin Federline that had her paying him $20,000 per month in child support.

    - Rap impresario Sean "Diddy" Combs was ordered in 2005 to pay about $19,000 a month in support to former girlfriend Misa Hylton-Brim for the care of their son Justin.

    - Revlon Inc. Chairman Ronald Perelman was ordered in 1999 to pay more than $12,000 a month to ex-wife Patricia Duff for the support of daughter Caleigh


    Enough said/
    And your point is that people worth millions of dollars pay a lot in child support and alimony? Those numbers do not reflect the what the average male pays in child support a month. It is just stupid to post this as if it proves some type of point in what we are talking about. Now if this was about setting limits on child support or alimony it would be a good example but since it is not, lets try and leave crazy at the door.

  13. #2233
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    If you aren't "philosophizing" about the consequences of your actions, you deserve no sympathy.

    So now the MRM supporters in this thread are claiming that you should have sex without protection (because it's "perfect") and get out of the consequences. This is why I no longer can associate myself with these people.
    Nah... SOME MRM supporters are... Yes. But I can't associate myself with second wave feminists, either. Doesn't mean I'm not a woman's rights supporter.

  14. #2234
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    P1: Males can be feminists
    P1,2: Just because you can't read or comprehend my argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist

    P2: I claim a general male should not be forced to pay child support where it is not necessary, and that child support should not be based on your own gender.

    P3: This is your problem. Why is it all up to the woman? It's not HER child in this hypothetical, it's OUR child. If I don't want to have that kid she can raise it by herself. if she AND her new partner (when involved) can't afford it I can help. I should not be forced to pay out everything I have before they even touch their wallets.

    P4: I never stated "women are corrupted minds" I stated "some women". Some. I didn't say most, or many, or lots, or all. I said some. Learn to read.

    I never stated at any point most must be, you have said that the entire time, by yourself, with noone agreeing. Arguing with yourself either shows lack of comprehension, a mental disorder, or guilt.
    Yeah any guy that supports some female basic right aka getting child support when they desperately need it. Are total and complete Feminists..also because they do not agree with you. Makes total and complete sense..

    Yes but it's up to you personally to decide what is necessary. You are giving a very very vague example. Is an extra hundred dollars a month necessary so she can buy diaper and milk for the child? how about an extra 20 dollars. You are giving such a vague example it could be anything. That is why we have Courts with Judges to decide who gets custody of the child and how much they pay based on their income

    Yes as you put it. It is YOUR CHILD too. You decided to get naked one night (without a condom assuming) now you want no part in the child's life (that's kinda sad) and you want her new boyfriend. (If she has one) to foot the bill. You are missing if she doesn't have a new boyfriend or she cannot get finances. You simply cannot make excuses to why you cannot pay but you took responsibility in having sex.

    Some women are corrupted in your mind. Like some Men are. What does this have to do with anything.

    I must be missing your overall point clearly there is none. This is what you want in plain English. The option not to have to pay a dime even though you knocked the female up. You want to be able to write off the waiver on child support if you cannot afford it. You are trying to use big words and huge metaphors. That's what it boils down to.

    I'm so glad from a person who wants not have to pay any child support is able to sit on their arm chair and figure out what is wrong with me. I'd ask you to use your insight on looking at yourself. I need no one to quote what I said and agree with me. I read most of last pages. It's completely insane how you just want not pay child support and drop responsibility just to have that option.

  15. #2235
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The lower you are on the income scale, the less child support you also have to pay.
    Yes but as you go up the income ladder your percentage of disposable income grows. I made my statement in full knowledge of the fact that lower income earners pay less child support. The fact remains, the poorer you are, the less you can afford to have anything taken away.

    Martin Brodeur's $132,000/year in child support at the time of the settlement represented less than 3% of his salary with the New Jersey Devils, not even considering endorsements, it likely barely registered in his take home pay and didn't change his lifestyle at all despite being $11,000/month. My father in law's settlement was closer to 7% of his income and he had nothing to spare. Its true he payed less because made less, but it hurt him a hell of a lot more than it hurt Mr. Brodeur, which was my point.

  16. #2236
    My dad was earning £18k a year pre-tax and was supposed to pay £380 a month. He also lost the house (so had to pay rent) among other things. My mum earned a similar amount (this post is entirely to give some actual numbers to those interested - the 380 was agreed between lawyers)

    My mum was also already with another man when the arrangements were made, who was earning £30k+ and was acting as a guardian. Same household etc.

  17. #2237
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Nah... SOME MRM supporters are... Yes. But I can't associate myself with second wave feminists, either. Doesn't mean I'm not a woman's rights supporter.
    There's a vast difference between modern feminists and feminuts.

  18. #2238
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    Yeah any guy that supports some female basic right aka getting child support when they desperately need it. Are total and complete Feminists..also because they do not agree with you. Makes total and complete sense..
    .
    Just wanted to say: One of my close friends is a male feminist. And he's quite adamant about it, too. And no; he doesn't hate men.

    I identify myself as gender equalitarian... Which makes me both a feminist AND a masculinist.

  19. #2239
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Just wanted to say: One of my close friends is a male feminist. And he's quite adamant about it, too. And no; he doesn't hate men.

    I identify myself as gender equalitarian... Which makes me both a feminist AND a masculinist.
    Because I agree that as a basic human rights for women. They should be allowed to get finances from a child both people equally contributed to making that would make me a male feminist. It's basic human rights. A woman typically goes through nine months of hell to have the child. After that if the male decides to split. Like some other posters hinted they would like the option.

    What is wrong with a female getting money for the child. It's not going to her partying lifestyle. It's basic food and things for the child.

  20. #2240
    Ok FusedMass, you win. It's impossible to have a discussion with someone who can't speak english and I am not fluent in any other languages (although I may be able to construct sentences as required in a few, if there's one you had in mind?) I don't mind if your not a native speaker but it would be nice to know.

    <Infracted>
    Don't post just to insult other forum users
    Last edited by Anakso; 2013-01-24 at 04:03 PM.

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