Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

[Combatbutler]

I know what Kel did, but thats a very different thing from what the Sunreavers did.

He betrayed the trust of the Kirin Tor by studying necromancy in their very city, he was a member of the six and would ultimately use his knowledge to bring the northern Kingdoms to their knees.

[Haven]

So because there are traitors among the Kirin Tor that means that they shouldn't be punished/thrown out?

No, it means Kirin Tor deserved the same treatment. Double standarts, Alliance's favorite. Kirin Tor maes siding with the enemy and unleashing hell on their own past kin if fine, yet Blood Elves must ahnd out anyone suspicious enough of their kind to the merciful judgement of the Alliance.

[Deleted]

So if the involved Sunreavers would have come out and attacked ,it would have been not as bad? Don't be ridiculous.

The mage hunters betrayed their former comrades, they wanted to kill them all, better sooner than later and Crevan nearly succeeded by smashing Dalaran into a mountain side.

It's not about whether it's bad or not. It's simply a different situation and hard to compare. The Sunreavers are a part of Dalaran and abused their neutrality to help the Horde. Those mage hunters and whatnot left Dalaran and sided with the enemy. Dalaran holds no authority over them anymore, and they were at open war with them anyway, so there was really not much to decide. The Sunreavers however were a part of Dalaran and they had to decide what to do with them. I'm sure that if the mage hunters had secretly worked for Malygos while being part of Dalaran, they would've thrown them out/killed them/imprisoned them. I still don't understand what the issue is.

[Combatbutler]

It's not about whether it's bad or not. It's simply a different situation and hard to compare. The Sunreavers are a part of Dalaran and abused their neutrality to help the Horde. Those mage hunters and whatnot left Dalaran and sided with the enemy. Dalaran holds no authority over them anymore, and they were at open war with them anyway, so there was really not much to decide. The Sunreavers however were a part of Dalaran and they had to decide what to do with them. I'm sure that if the mage hunters had secretly worked for Malygos while being part of Dalaran, they would've thrown them out/killed them/imprisoned them. I still don't understand what the issue is.

The fact is a huge chunk of the Kirin Tor decided to betray the Order and sided with Malygos, having every intention of wiping the Kirin Tor out. Not matter how you look at it, it is treachery plain and simple.If all sunreavers are not to be trusted because of a few how the hell do you intend to trust the Kirin Tor if dozens if not hundreds of them defected to Malygos?

[Deleted]

He betrayed the trust of the Kirin Tor by studying necromancy in their very city, he was a member of the six and would ultimately use his knowledge to bring the northern Kingdoms to their knees.

Yes, but he was not affiliated with any subgroup inside Dalaran, like the Sunreavers or the Silver Covenant.

No, it means Kirin Tor deserved the same treatment. Double standarts, Alliance's favorite. Kirin Tor maes siding with the enemy and unleashing hell on their own past kin if fine, yet Blood Elves must ahnd out anyone suspicious enough of their kind to the merciful judgement of the Alliance.

The same treatment as who? The Sunreavers? Should the Kirin Tor throw out the Kirin Tor?

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 10:45 PM ----------

The fact is a huge chunk of the Kirin Tor decided to betray the Order and sided with Malygos, having every intention of wiping the Kirin Tor out. Not matter how you look at it, it is treachery plain and simple.If all sunreavers are not to be trusted because of a few how the hell do you intend to trust the Kirin Tor if dozens if not hundreds of them defected to Malygos?

Huge chunk? Those 5 people you listed?

[Verdugo]

Huge chunk? Those 5 people you listed?

Remember all those mooks you killed while leveling in Northrend? They count too.

[Combatbutler]

Yes, but he was not affiliated with any subgroup inside Dalaran, like the Sunreavers or the Silver Covenant.

He was a member of the six, which makes this actually a tad worse if such a high ranking member throws everything away for power, how can you trust the rest won't do the same, look at Kael another former member of the six that fell from grace.

The same treatment as who? The Sunreavers? Should the Kirin Tor throw out the Kirin Tor?

In fact if they really wanted to get rid of any chance of treachery they should have disbanded and formed a new organization, picking their members with extreme care, alas they failed to do so.

Huge chunk? Those 5 people you listed?

Those were named ones, but you know those mage hunter npc practically all over Northrend, most of them were members of the Kirin Tor.

[Darth-Piekus]

The issue is that at the moment The Horde's Image on Azeroth due to Garrosh and his lackeys is damaged. They do not feel proud of their faction. They want to find something bad on the Alliance to cling to in order to say << Hey we are all the same>> even though clearly in MOP the two factions are not the same. Another issue is that the Alliance started to really fight back and they do not like it at all.

[Combatbutler]

The issue is that at the moment The Horde's Image on Azeroth due to Garrosh and his lackeys is damaged. They do not feel proud of their faction. They want to find something bad on the Alliance to cling to in order to say << Hey we are all the same>> even though clearly in MOP the two factions are not the same. Another issue is that the Alliance started to really fight back and they do not like it at all.

You cannot dismiss that the Kirin Tor has quite the history of treachery to say otherwise is just foolish, those are facts. Jaina says so herself in the Alliance cutscene. So considering that, it is quite strange to see that all are Sunreavers are purged, while in the past those guilty were punished and the rest worked something out. Kicking the Sunreavers out was logical and the right thing to do but considering the past actions of the Kirin Tor and Jainas involvement it is a tad hypocritical.

[Deleted]

He was a member of the six, which makes this actually a tad worse if such a high ranking member throws everything away for power, how can you trust the rest won't do the same, look at Kael another former member of the six that fell from grace.



In fact if they really wanted to get rid of any chance of treachery they should have disbanded and formed a new organization, picking their members with extreme care, alas they failed to do so.





Those were named ones, but you know those mage hunter npc practically all over Northrend, most of them were members of the Kirin Tor.

Ok then, there were a lot of people who betrayed the Kirin Tor. But there were a lot of Twilight cultists inside Stormwind and Orgrimmar when the Cataclysm began. That's because sometimes there are traitors. But that has nothing to do with the whole Sunreaver conflict as this is about a subgroup inside the Kirin Tor and how you treat the group when one or a couple of them betray you.

Disband and reform because there were traitor? What would that achieve? Would other potential traitors then just evaporate? Should Alliance and Horde also disband because they at some point had traitors?

[Darth-Piekus]

Enlighten me please about the treacheries you mention to see what kind of treacheries those are.

[Aquamonkey]

The Alliance should have kicked out everyone in the Silver Hand as soon as Arthas became the Lich King.

[Deleted]

You cannot dismiss that the Kirin Tor has quite the history of treachery to say otherwise is just foolish, those are facts. Jaina says so herself in the Alliance cutscene. So considering that, it is quite strange to see that all are Sunreavers are purged, while in the past those guilty were punished and the rest worked something out. Kicking the Sunreavers out was logical and the right thing to do but considering the past actions of the Kirin Tor and Jainas involvement it is a tad hypocritical.

What are you trying to argue here? That people are scumbags? Or that the Kirin Tor attracts an unnatural number of traitors? Even if so, what does that mean.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 11:06 PM ----------

The Alliance should have kicked out everyone in the Silver Hand as soon as Arthas became the Lich King.

Well you know the Silver Hand kind of kept fighting Arthas and the Scourge, that's a wee bit of a distinction.

[DFu4ever]

Enlighten me please about the treacheries you mention to see what kind of treacheries those are.

He just spent the entire page doing exactly that. The very same page you just posted on.

[Combatbutler]

Ok then, there were a lot of people who betrayed the Kirin Tor. But there were a lot of Twilight cultists inside Stormwind and Orgrimmar when the Cataclysm began. That's because sometimes there are traitors. But that has nothing to do with the whole Sunreaver conflict as this is about a subgroup inside the Kirin Tor and how you treat the group when one or a couple of them betray you.

How so? The Sunreavers are members of the Kirin Tor just as much as those traitors were, with the difference there were far fewer traitors among the Sunreavers.

Disband and reform because there were traitor? What would that achieve? Would other potential traitors then just evaporate? Should Alliance and Horde also disband because they at some point had traitors?

It would give them at least some form of control and they could really rely on each other and as I said no faction is trustworthy, not a
single one.

Enlighten me please about the treacheries you mention to see what kind of treacheries those are.

Do you even read the thread or do you just pop in to make a statement? If you know so little about Dalaran lore you should stay out of this.

[Aquamonkey]

The issue is that at the moment The Horde's Image on Azeroth due to Garrosh and his lackeys is damaged. They do not feel proud of their faction. They want to find something bad on the Alliance to cling to in order to say << Hey we are all the same>> even though clearly in MOP the two factions are not the same. Another issue is that the Alliance started to really fight back and they do not like it at all.

The funny thing is that most of the main villains in Azeroth were former Alliance or members of races in the Alliance.

[Combatbutler]

The funny thing is that most of the main villains in Azeroth were former Alliance or members of races in the Alliance.

Not really the horde was just one big mess back in the good old days, not to mention the Alliance shouldn't be held responsible for Illidan or the Eredar, because those were never part of the Alliance to begin with.

[Aquamonkey]

Not really the horde was just one big mess back in the good old days, not to mention the Alliance shouldn't be held responsible for Illidan or the Eredar, because those were never part of the Alliance to begin with.

The Alliance is supposed to have the "virtuous" races. But they are as flawed as any of the Horde races.

[Combatbutler]

The Alliance is supposed to have the "virtuous" races. But they are as flawed as any of the Horde races.

Well their past contradicts much of what they are and stand for today, one could argue they learned from the past, still they try quite hard to live up to their standard, while orcs in particular tend to throw honor overboard at some point.

[Deleted]

How so? The Sunreavers are members of the Kirin Tor just as much as those traitors were, with the difference there were far fewer traitors among the Sunreavers.



It would give them at least some form of control and they could really rely on each other and as I said no faction is trustworthy, not a
single one.




Do you even read the thread or do you just pop in to make a statement? If you know so little about Dalaran lore you should stay out of this.

BUT THE SUNREAVERS ARE A GROUP. If there are individuals who do stuff you can deal with them individually, but if they have no affiliation to any subgroup inside the Kirin Tor, what do you want to do. Throw out random people?

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 11:23 PM ----------

The Alliance is supposed to have the "virtuous" races. But they are as flawed as any of the Horde races.

Individuals are flawed, but in the Horde, the Forsaken, and as of late the orcs as a group are a bit more than just flawed. I'm fine with the other races of the Horde. Well the Goblins are wackos, but can you really take them seriously?