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  1. #181
    Interesting, but I doubt this will lead to anything more than more restrictions & censorship on the Internet. /cynical

    Would be cool if it did lead to something positive, though.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I never said I hate them, I said I'd like to see them go to jail. Your idea of fighting for freedoms is far different from mine, and I do not believe a little bit of internet cowardice is anything of the such. Anonymous and the people that download whatever they want for free off the internet are the ones that have pushed governments and companies to try to control the internet. They're ruining it for the rest of us by being selfish bastards.

    So yes, I want to see some arrests.
    Right, because of all those revolutions that have happened successfully via people obeying the law. Could you remind me what those were again? Like it or not, our society is based on information now. What hacktivists are doing is disruption of trade and stirring the passions of like minded people, similar to the activities of every successful revolution in recorded history. Being able to do it from home (which no one does btw, what kind of idiot would do something illegal and pass out their home address at the scene?) does not negate the importance of of an action.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Unfortunately, it's not the best way to make the American people think highly of them, because the media will paint Anonymous as evil-doers "omg they hacked our precious government's website!" and people will rally behind the government. =/
    Then the government manages to pass SOPA and PIPA, most of the American people get pissed, some of the rest of the world. Out cry ensues, people realise the government is corrupt (omg), sh*t hits the fan. It won't be as clean as that no, but the general idea of this Operation seems to be:
    1. government acts and makes SOPA and PIPA clones, people get off there asses and act since everyone is being affected (not just one guy who co-founded reddit).
    2. government gives in, lets face it this will never happen (if it does then happy day).
    3. government doesn't act, the files get leaked everywhere the government gets a shake up and either continues or cuts of the infected parts. Possibly the end to 1 as well.

    The idea seems to be to be a bait trap "Oh look we are using teh interwebz for evils, stahp us if you can".
    Unfortunately the only outcome i foresee making change is 1, since 2 will likely never happen and 3 relies on the files actually containing useful information, and after that the government actually caring or not just cutting off the people who have dirt released on them.

  4. #184
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Right, because of all those revolutions that have happened successfully via people obeying the law. Could you remind me what those were again? Like it or not, our society is based on information now. What hacktivists are doing is disruption of trade and stirring the passions of like minded people, similar to the activities of every successful revolution in recorded history. Being able to do it from home (which no one does btw, what kind of idiot would do something illegal and pass out their home address at the scene?) does not negate the importance of of an action.
    People going "gee that sucks" on the Interent when they read this sort of thing is a far cry from "Stirring the passions of like minded people"

    Frankly, it seems that anonymous want to just give people reasons to be angry, hoping that these people themselves will then be angry enough to do something about it. Which is not how "change" works. You don't sit back and poke and prod and expect things to go your way. If Anonymous wants to enact social change, they should actually go out and DO something about it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akarui View Post
    Then the government manages to pass SOPA and PIPA, most of the American people get pissed, some of the rest of the world. Out cry ensues, people realise the government is corrupt (omg), sh*t hits the fan. It won't be as clean as that no, but the general idea of this Operation seems to be:
    1. government acts and makes SOPA and PIPA clones, people get off there asses and act since everyone is being affected (not just one guy who co-founded reddit).
    2. government gives in, lets face it this will never happen (if it does then happy day).
    3. government doesn't act, the files get leaked everywhere the government gets a shake up and either continues or cuts of the infected parts. Possibly the end to 1 as well.

    The idea seems to be to be a bait trap "Oh look we are using teh interwebz for evils, stahp us if you can".
    Unfortunately the only outcome i foresee making change is 1, since 2 will likely never happen and 3 relies on the files actually containing useful information, and after that the government actually caring or not just cutting off the people who have dirt released on them.
    Or...
    4. People get angry about it, most people complain on the internet about the system, eventually settling into their cynical ways about how the system is broke and can't be changed because they haven't heard of anyone else doing anything about it. Nothing ends up happening.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-01-26 at 10:17 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    People going "gee that sucks" on the Interent when they read this sort of thing is a far cry from "Stirring the passions of like minded people"

    Frankly, it seems that anonymous want to just give people reasons to be angry, hoping that these people themselves will then be angry enough to do something about it. Which is not how "change" works. You don't sit back and poke and prod and expect things to go your way. If Anonymous wants to enact social change, they should actually go out and DO something about it themselves.
    Releasing the encrypted documents with dirt on government officials kind of is doing something.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Releasing the encrypted documents with dirt on government officials kind of is doing something.
    First, it'd be inadmissible evidence in a court of law.

    Second, let's say the information is revealed and is floating out there. Then what? The information isn't going to do anything on its own accord. Like I said, it seems that Anonymous is trying to enact change by hoping other people actually act. That's pretty pathetic.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Releasing the encrypted documents with dirt on government officials kind of is doing something.
    Yup, not to mention many people who count themselves as members of Anonymous aren't actually American so cannot do much else, lest they be extradited to face trial for a crime which is legal in there country...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    First, it'd be inadmissible evidence in a court of law.

    Second, let's say the information is revealed and is floating out there. Then what? The information isn't going to do anything on its own accord. Like I said, it seems that Anonymous is trying to enact change by hoping other people actually act. That's pretty pathetic.
    First, who says the object is to use the legal system with this infomation.
    Second, how is it pathetic to try to get people to wake up and smell the decaying roses that was America? In my opinion it's those people who are pathetic not Anonymous, at least they're trying which is more than can be said for others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Or...
    4. People get angry about it, most people complain on the internet about the system, eventually settling into their cynical ways about how the system is broke and can't be changed because they haven't heard of anyone else doing anything about it. Nothing ends up happening.
    May as well add it here since it relates to the above bit.
    If they do as your forth point explains, then I am saddened that human beings would be so callous, ignorant, pathetic and submissive to the government.
    Last edited by mmocae8a1940ff; 2013-01-26 at 10:28 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    You know what wasn't going to get him out of jail? People whining about it online.

    You have a few thousand people sitting outside a courthouse? That can makes things happen.
    I'd like it if you read my posts in their entirety please. I already stated you can argue that bit, implying I'm not getting involved. It was more to the people stating he was trying to do something illegal (breaking fair use policies at best) or trying to get free music/downloads (the downloads were free to begin with)

  9. #189
    I keep hearing about people not in tune with their "method". If you can suggest a better means of engaging, I'd like to hear it. I feel like if there is a better method, we'd have seen it already. People are too apathetic to do anything regularly, so I'm all for a new approach.
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  10. #190
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Releasing the encrypted documents with dirt on government officials kind of is doing something.
    It remains to be seen if any of the information is actually that damning. Up until now much of what Anonymous has done has been for nothing, because nothing good has come of it. They are just threatening to do what they should just go ahead and do without bothering to threaten people who won't be intimidated by threats alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    I keep hearing about people not in tune with their "method". If you can suggest a better means of engaging, I'd like to hear it. I feel like if there is a better method, we'd have seen it already. People are too apathetic to do anything regularly, so I'm all for a new approach.
    People in this thread have already mentioned some other methods, which is actual, physical protesting. Not thinking their methods are effective doesn't require you to know of a better one to hold that opinion though.
    Last edited by Theodon; 2013-01-26 at 10:29 PM.

  11. #191
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akarui View Post
    Yup, not to mention many people who count themselves as members of Anonymous aren't actually American so cannot do much else, lest they be extradited to face trial for a crime which is legal in there country...
    If you don't pursue a cause because you're afraid you'll be arrested for doing it, you don't really believe in it very strongly.

    It's basically saying "yeah it's bad, but I'M not going to risk my butt over it!"


    First, who says the object is to use the legal system with this infomation.
    Second, how is it pathetic to try to get people to wake up and smell the decaying roses that was America? In my opinion it's those people who are pathetic not Anonymous, at least they're trying which is more than can be said for others.
    Because you're basically basing your entire "movement" on HOPING that other people "wake up and smell the rose."

    It'd be like if martin Luther King Jr.'s entire interaction with the civil rights movement was publishing strongly worded editorials under a false name in Newspapers and hoping that other people did things about it. I probably don't have to tell you why that wouldn't have done much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I'd like it if you read my posts in their entirety please. I already stated you can argue that bit, implying I'm not getting involved. It was more to the people stating he was trying to do something illegal (breaking fair use policies at best) or trying to get free music/downloads (the downloads were free to begin with)
    I wasn't referring to you specifically, I was talking about "people" doing that and only that.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
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  12. #192
    Where did the democrazy(pun intended)go? What happened to the law that gives the citizens the right to unseat the goverment? I thought it was one of the first law written in USA.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    I keep hearing about people not in tune with their "method". If you can suggest a better means of engaging, I'd like to hear it. I feel like if there is a better method, we'd have seen it already. People are too apathetic to do anything regularly, so I'm all for a new approach.
    Really you can't think of a better way than just being an annoying? Anonymous is the internet equivalent of a bunch of hooting dickholes tping a government building. Sure a few people are annoyed when they do it and others cheer for their attempt to fuck with "the man" a bit but in terms of what was actually accomplished all they did was give the janitors some more work. Meanwhile there's other people actually leaking documents, protesting in DC, lobbying the government that are provoking real change. Not just announcing you'll be throwing a tantrum on this date, throwing said tantrum, and then being mildly annoying but not really damaging anything by shutting down some website for a day.
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  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Really you can't think of a better way than just being an annoying? Anonymous is the internet equivalent of a bunch of hooting dickholes tping a government building. Sure a few people are annoyed when they do it and others cheer for their attempt to fuck with "the man" a bit but in terms of what was actually accomplished all they did was give the janitors some more work. Meanwhile there's other people actually leaking documents, protesting in DC, lobbying the government that are provoking real change. Not just announcing you'll be throwing a tantrum on this date, throwing said tantrum, and then being mildly annoying but not really damaging anything by shutting down some website for a day.
    What on earth makes you think that the people leaking documents and visibly protesting are not the same as those who are performing illegal activities on the internet?

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by hawtlol View Post
    So they hacked a website. Congrats. And no useful information was given that day
    That's really what Anonymous ever did though. They DDoS/deface/exploit and rarely actually "hack" a site, but regardless whatever "info" they ever do release is almost always for other people to actually carry out the "grunt" work. They release all this info about peoples personal identities and pretty much expect (think?) others will go and sit in front of these peoples houses in protest or something.

    I'm not for or against Anonymous (hell, I wouldn't want my business to be touched by them) but they never really do anything they "say" they'll do as retaliation.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 05:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Really you can't think of a better way than just being an annoying? Anonymous is the internet equivalent of a bunch of hooting dickholes tping a government building. Sure a few people are annoyed when they do it and others cheer for their attempt to fuck with "the man" a bit but in terms of what was actually accomplished all they did was give the janitors some more work. Meanwhile there's other people actually leaking documents, protesting in DC, lobbying the government that are provoking real change. Not just announcing you'll be throwing a tantrum on this date, throwing said tantrum, and then being mildly annoying but not really damaging anything by shutting down some website for a day.
    That's pretty much how I always viewed Anonymous. Although getting into databases (depending on the company) and leaking the info can be a pretty massive job of PR/cleanup.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 05:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodon View Post
    It remains to be seen if any of the information is actually that damning. Up until now much of what Anonymous has done has been for nothing, because nothing good has come of it. They are just threatening to do what they should just go ahead and do without bothering to threaten people who won't be intimidated by threats alone.

    People in this thread have already mentioned some other methods, which is actual, physical protesting. Not thinking their methods are effective doesn't require you to know of a better one to hold that opinion though.
    Physically protesting? You mean like what the largest mass protest (in recent history anyway, OWS) accomplished? Oh wait... they did nothing but cause some laughs on live-streams for those of us bored enough to watch them. I watched purely to see if the police would do something crazy to them.

    I'm not saying I agree or disagree with them, but the whole movement got pretty big, then fizzled and now you rarely hear anything about it (granted it's winter) but nothing, outside of some arrests (obviously gonna happen during protests as some take it too far) happened.

  16. #196
    What if the government IS the anonymous, trying to make a stronger case for internet regulation? I mean, who cares if the DoJ's info website or the sentencing commissions website is down for a day. Its not like secret records are stored on those sites. And all they would have to do is say that their actual records had been hacked.

    ^I think this is a crazy theory, but its about as legitimate as half the crap i've seen posted here today.

  17. #197
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    What on earth makes you think that the people leaking documents and visibly protesting are not the same as those who are performing illegal activities on the internet?
    Then there sure as hell aren't very many of them. Occupy Wall street is actually a perfect example, in that it was a leaderless, largely aimless crusade against general badness. Which is why it fizzled out. People like to feel like they're a part of something, but unless they have once central voice and one central drive provided by charismatic, well known individuals, they'll eventually lose interest. Anonymous isn't generating either of those things. Occupy Wall Street isn't a manifested failure of protests, it's a manifested failure of leaderless, decentralized movements.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  18. #198
    Once upon a time I generally supported actions taken by Anonymous. This past year however it almost seems as if some new people have taken the name and are lashing out irrationally and trying to garner the title of "Terrorist". At this point any action the government takes against anonymous I'll support.

  19. #199
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Physically protesting? You mean like what the largest mass protest (in recent history anyway, OWS) accomplished? Oh wait... they did nothing but cause some laughs on live-streams for those of us bored enough to watch them. I watched purely to see if the police would do something crazy to them.

    I'm not saying I agree or disagree with them, but the whole movement got pretty big, then fizzled and now you rarely hear anything about it (granted it's winter) but nothing, outside of some arrests (obviously gonna happen during protests as some take it too far) happened.
    There are instances throughout history where physical forms of protesting have been successful, yet you've chosen to place value on that method by looking at what one single instance managed to (or not, in this case) achieve. Yes the OWS protests didn't do anything, and actually ended up damaging the image of the people protesting, but that doesn't mean it's not going to ever work when history shows that it does. I would go in to why I think the OWS failed, but it would be seen as country bashing.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodon View Post
    There are instances throughout history where physical forms of protesting have been successful, yet you've chosen to place value on that method by looking at what one single instance managed to (or not, in this case) achieve. Yes the OWS protests didn't do anything, and actually ended up damaging the image of the people protesting, but that doesn't mean it's not going to ever work when history shows that it does. I would go in to why I think the OWS failed, but it would be seen as country bashing.
    I never said protests didn't work at a fundamental level?

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