GC's tweet for lack of a dps burst cd for shadow priests

[Kelesti]

pets do low damage and dont scale with +% damage for player. PI only increase spell cast speed, no haste for dots no pets attack speed. and i must spend 2 talents for that?

Power Infusion has been +haste (not Troll Berserking's casting speed, actual +haste) since before Shadow's DoTs scaled with haste, mid Wrath.

Yeah i wish shadowpriests did have an actual burst CD that didnt require us speccing for it

Shadowfiend does more damage in one burst than Mindbender, is on a 3 minute cooldown, and requires zero talents. For a single GCD, in this purpose, it can be construed as a burst cooldown. A kitable burst cooldown, but a burst cooldown nonetheless. If you choose to spec Mindbender, you get one that does a little less damage, but a lot more often. But not spec'ing Mindbender does not remove the fact Shadow has a cooldown, and Power Infusion would give a second one if that's what you're after.

but the thing is we need a slight buff to our sustained dps so we can skip the scenario that we need this dps cd. i could go with not having one if i was putting out enough single target dps. could line up a dp3 + MB + halo + fiend/bender for a burst phase. it could give me enough burst, but i'd rest assured knowing that my sustained dps would compensate for the rest of the burn phase and beyond after that spike i provide.

We do need a buff to sustained DPS, yes. Very much so. The point is, this is a bigger priority (Mind Blast not scaling with haste, no resource generating increasing with gear, or with bloodlust, or with anything, overall lower scaling with stats).




Just flicking the switch on Mind Blast's haste cooldown reduction (was in for, what, one build on beta?) would be a very decent start, and would actually do more for Shadow than giving Archangel's +25% Mind Flay damage back (which current PTR build Insanity does +100% mind flay damage, go figure).



Say it with me now guys, WE DO NOT WANT TO BE RET PALADINS. Say it again, come on. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE RET PALADINS. They have a lot of cooldowns, and because of it, when their cooldowns aren't up, their damage suffers. It's not fun to only be able to feel awesome for 18-25 seconds every few minutes, and suck the rest of the time. We need our baseline damage issues fixed first.

[Drye]

but the thing is we need a slight buff to our sustained dps so we can skip the scenario that we need this dps cd.

And I agree with you. You actually understand that putting bandaide on a gun shot won't help or solve anything. You need to take the bulle out, clean it and then seal it up. There are multiple steps in order to fix the problem.

[Deleted]

SWI nerfed to the ground. Useless now.

[Raugnaut]

3) An out-of-combat Orb generator. Right now, Shadow Priests have the exact same resource problem that Balance Druids had in Cata. That's right, the resource system that they gave Shadow Priests in MoP has the same problem that they fixed for Balance Druids in the same patch. The mind, it boggles.

Eh... Balance Druid's Eclipse and Shadow Priest's Shadow Orbs are pretty different. Shadow Orbs affect the usage of 1 damage spell, and 1 utility spell, with the utility almost never being used in PvE. Essentially, for Spriest, starting out with 3 shadow orbs, and no shadow orbs is the difference of 1 DP over the entire fight- maybe a .1% dps loss comapred to having DP up at the very start. The cata model, that was closer to Eclipse- you had to have 3 orbs up for your dot's to do max damage, and while they lasted for a full minute, not having them resulted in a more sizable dps loss, not to mention having a crappy opener.

So, atm, Shadow Orbs govern very very little, only DP usage, compared to Cata were it governed the damage of ALL spells. So, stating that 5.0 "broke" SP in the inverse of how it "fixed" Boomkins, yea, no. If they left old Shadow Orb usage, and didnt allow you to get a full 3 stacks before pulls, that would be "breaking" SP in the same way that 5.0 "fixed" Boomkins. Resource that affects 1 spell =/= resource that affects all spells. If anything. 5.0 also fixed the issue of cata shadow orbs by the change in how shadow orbs work.

---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 08:45 PM ----------

This does not surprise me.

They have never liked priest. More so Shadow Priest.
Only reason I still play my priest is because its my first and main char since wrath. Too attached to it.
Hate lvl'ing so i'm not gonna re-roll to warlock.

Priests, during Vanilla, were THE healers. You wanted half your healers to be priests, and the the other half to be druids (To innervate the priests), with some paladin or shaman (Depending on faction) buffbots. Priests healed, other healers back-uped the priests. OR, Priests healed tanks/heavy damage, druids tossed rank 3 healing touches around to heal low damage, and innervated priest, shamans put down totems and tosses rank 5 healing waves to heal medium damage. Paladins.. I think they sat in the back and buffed ppl.

[Phanuel]

Priests, during Vanilla, were THE healers. You wanted half your healers to be priests, and the the other half to be druids (To innervate the priests), with some paladin or shaman (Depending on faction) buffbots. Priests healed, other healers back-uped the priests. OR, Priests healed tanks/heavy damage, druids tossed rank 3 healing touches around to heal low damage, and innervated priest, shamans put down totems and tosses rank 5 healing waves to heal medium damage. Paladins.. I think they sat in the back and buffed ppl.

Not really, you had Paladins >>> Priests >>>>> 1 druid (poison dispel and motw). And the paladins stacked +crit for illumination procs.

[Deleted]

ye, except that this spell is over 25% of our overall damage. So "very little" doesn't quite fit. Its the bulk of our dps, and the average DP/minute doesn't change with gear, its not scaling. And god no 0.1%?? Its a gcd over 350k dps. Imagine during BL and all your trinket procs. That has to be close to 500-550k. Oh sure on a 10+ minute fights it is not gona be much, but like boomkins in cata, we can never do better than a pull with 3 orbs and that is why it is unfair. Yvael proposed gaining 1orb/2sec during dispersion, I think its a brilliant idea.

And you don't seem the see the problem with "So, atm, Shadow Orbs govern very very little, only DP usage, compared to Cata were it governed the damage of ALL spells."
This is what actually made us good in cata, we had synergy with nearly all our spell, but now we have near to none with most of our spells.
MB with DP, can be tied to SWP if specced into DI. And thats pretty much it. MF is a standalone spell, SWD the same, VT is needed for mana. They give us a proc mastery but have near to no mechanic that actually benefit from it or at least not as much as it should. Mind spike was tied to MB when glyphed but now its going away. All those spells are standalone, having better haste will make MF better, but It won't affect MB, thus it won't affect DP. The only stat all our spells benefit from is crit, and we got the worst mechanic in game that works with crit: ShA. We got no damage modifier based on crit(locks&destro).
SP lacks in synergy and blizzard doesn't seem to care enough to even admit it. Look at most classes, mages resource system works directly with haste, more haste more mana, more spamming; more mastery more damage. Locks the same thing having only one spell that doesn't benefit from mastery(two with seeds):haunt, yet it buffs mastery with the debuff. Top tiers spec are the one with the best synergy within their tools. We have none.

[snaxattax]

insanity got nerfed hard, looks like. +33% damage to mindflay per orb spent on DP... the wording makes it seem as if we won't be able to get the extra 2ish seconds of bonus channel by refreshing mindflay at the end of a DP. i can't really see how it'd ever be used in this 'new' design... mediocre damage increase (~20% boost to mindflay overall vs the ~90% boost it was before) and extremely sensitive to movement.

no idea what they're doing with the spec. do they even realize how poorly shadow scales? the new legendary meta is only going to make it worse as other classes line up more of their cooldowns with the mini-lust proc.

[Sakamae]

no idea what they're doing with the spec. do they even realize how poorly shadow scales? the new legendary meta is only going to make it worse as other classes line up more of their cooldowns with the mini-lust proc.

I don't understand why healers get intellect meta and dps get....crit? Why wouldn't they choose main stat meta gem for the legendary? That's just outright lame imo.

[Deleted]

GC said he wants to keep some diversity among classes/specs. That's why spriest is still the only spec without a cooldown. (Shadowfiend doesn't really count, does it?)

[Vargur]

GC said he wants to keep some diversity among classes/specs. That's why spriest is still the only spec without a cooldown. (Shadowfiend doesn't really count, does it?)

I bet GC plays a warlock and ordered his teams to design him his own questline and buff his e-numbers even more than they already are?

[Cairm]

You still do great all around dps. If you had CD's, you wouldn't be happy to use them, or get nerf to compansate for having them.

I play a shaman. One of my dps CD is a pet, the fire elemental. Yes i have Ascandance, but i can't sustain your dps without it. Its a pick and choose. You can't top meters and have big dps CD's.

[Phanuel]

You still do great all around dps. Its a pick and choose. You can't top meters and have big dps CD's.

This is news to every SP here.

[Deleted]

You still do great all around dps. If you had CD's, you wouldn't be happy to use them, or get nerf to compansate for having them.

I play a shaman. One of my dps CD is a pet, the fire elemental. Yes i have Ascandance, but i can't sustain your dps without it. Its a pick and choose. You can't top meters and have big dps CD's.

Ehm what? Shadow priest is the worst single target spec in the game right now, besides arms warriors.

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

[Deleted]

You still do great all around dps. If you had CD's, you wouldn't be happy to use them, or get nerf to compansate for having them.

I play a shaman. One of my dps CD is a pet, the fire elemental. Yes i have Ascandance, but i can't sustain your dps without it. Its a pick and choose. You can't top meters and have big dps CD's.

Please be quiet, you're obviously a real shit shaman if you get beaten by a spriest.

[Deleted]

You still do great all around dps. If you had CD's, you wouldn't be happy to use them, or get nerf to compansate for having them.

@ Cairm, warlocks would like to have a word with you...

If you compare the shadow priest with the elemental shaman at least their cleave and burst are both ace. You can't say the same about our multiDoT (our only speciality, output-wise). There's only one fight where our multiDoT shines in T14. Every other fight where multiDoT matters (sustained) you will not find a shadow priest topping the meters.

Eh... Balance Druid's Eclipse and Shadow Priest's Shadow Orbs are pretty different. Shadow Orbs affect the usage of 1 damage spell, and 1 utility spell, with the utility almost never being used in PvE. Essentially, for Spriest, starting out with 3 shadow orbs, and no shadow orbs is the difference of 1 DP over the entire fight- maybe a .1% dps loss comapred to having DP up at the very start. The cata model, that was closer to Eclipse- you had to have 3 orbs up for your dot's to do max damage, and while they lasted for a full minute, not having them resulted in a more sizable dps loss, not to mention having a crappy opener.

So, atm, Shadow Orbs govern very very little, only DP usage, compared to Cata were it governed the damage of ALL spells. So, stating that 5.0 "broke" SP in the inverse of how it "fixed" Boomkins, yea, no. If they left old Shadow Orb usage, and didnt allow you to get a full 3 stacks before pulls, that would be "breaking" SP in the same way that 5.0 "fixed" Boomkins. Resource that affects 1 spell =/= resource that affects all spells. If anything. 5.0 also fixed the issue of cata shadow orbs by the change in how shadow orbs work.

Yes, but we came from Cata 4.3 where, PvE-wise, every class had burst in their T13 tier set due to requirement of burst at Spine HC. So we did have burst at the end of Cata (Shadowfiend and !#%ing apparitions). Perhaps we got spoiled?

Either way, our specialities (multiDoT and utility) are marginalized, while our downsides are sometimes apparent (single target with or without movement, lack of burst) which is a change from 4.3 and Cata in general where our utility was important and our multiDoT shined. Basically, the class/spec doesn't currently have a niche. The last one remaining (off healing) is also nerfed in 5.2... our sustained multiDoT got nerfed (FDCL), as well as during movement, as well as single target during movement damage got nerfed. FDCL isn't burst damage any more than say explosive shot or living bomb. If you have the mage's nether tempest it isn't burst damage either because it is supposed to be always active and does sustained. FDCL furthermore is even less burst due to glyph of mind spike change (which made it an interesting talent IMO), and the burst is RNGish and does very little more damage than MF.

If anything the T3 talents ADJUST our burst to allow us more viable control over our burst. ADJUSTING the burst isn't the same as IMPROVING or ADDING burst! The T5 are our burst mechanics instead!! The two interact in interesting ways (for healing too) but that's about it. T5: one is burst on execute, or multiDoT if you abuse the proc. One is +20 haste which is useless. The third one is RNGish and again adds a sustained type of burst. This is unlike an ability like ascendance which is more akin to something like archangel or our T13 4set bonus! (raw power: completely unsustained, rotation-changing burst)

Essentially, for Spriest, starting out with 3 shadow orbs, and no shadow orbs is the difference of 1 DP over the entire fight- maybe a .1% dps loss comapred to having DP up at the very start.

Did you factor in pot + hero + CDs on start? If you do, you'll find the difference is higher than 0,1%, and you'll find on DPS checks it matters.

[Crudelitas]

You still do great all around dps. If you had CD's, you wouldn't be happy to use them, or get nerf to compansate for having them.

I play a shaman. One of my dps CD is a pet, the fire elemental. Yes i have Ascandance, but i can't sustain your dps without it. Its a pick and choose. You can't top meters and have big dps CD's.

can also spec into elemental mastery no? which gives you... let me do the math... sec... oh yes! 3 cds! and great all around dps? don't make me laugh. multidot dmg is ok and single target damage is as shitty as it could be.

[Elodeon]

WTF, guys?

Last I checked, my Shadow Priest could spec Power Infusion. It's practically the same thing as Dark Soul for Affliction. It's 20% rather than 30%, but then you have Shadowfiend/Mindbender on top of that. Plus timing your Devouring Plague for use with Power Infusion.

[Drye]

Please be quiet, you're obviously a real shit shaman if you get beaten by a spriest.

That is clearly the way to handle that, being that rude. Especially since you have made so many useful posts to this thread that actually would help the class. Jk you didn't.

[Martinussen]

ALL HAIL US MIGHTY TROLLS WITH BERSERKING!


No seriously it sucks having my only dps cooldown being a racial ability..... im happy i have it, but it sucks its because of my CLASS and not my SPEC.

[Yvaelle]

Ehm what? Shadow priest is the worst single target spec in the game right now, besides arms warriors.

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

Which isn't fair to arms warriors right now because they've already been told many times this build that they will be getting massive damage buffs before the build hits live.